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Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-14-2010
I am curious as how you fly fisherman/women decide what to use on any certain day or creek and/or lake/river?
I know that matching the hatch is the first and foremost way to start, but when it comes to Leeches, Woolybuggers, Chironomids, etc, is there a certain way you decide what color or what fly to use? Are there certain times of year that certain flies are a must and others should not be used?
I seem to be the type who changes color every so often until I hook a fish and then stick with that color. As far as the fly I pick, it depends on where I am at and which rod I use. Sometimes I will pull out the sinking line if I am on a deep river or trolling on a lake. Other times I will pull out the floating line if I am on a smaller river/stream or small pond/lake and throw some dry flies or put on some nymphs or chironomids.
I have been out fly fishing the last few weekends and was thinking about this while fishing. A week ago there was no hatch, but I did great on dry flies around 14/16's in natural colors. This last weekend I could not hook a fish on dries even tho there was a hatch of some small black midges. I ended up using leeches with a trailing chironomid and hooked all my fish that combination.
Also, how long do you try something before you end up changing and trying something else? Do you use more than one fly when searching for the perfect fly and color? I know I quite often will tie on 4-5 nymphs, every one a different color to check things out and see what color the fish like best.
Curious minds want to know.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - scorsi - 02-15-2010
One thing I do is screen the water. How you do it is take an aquarium fish net (the bigger the better) and scoop up some mud and dig through it to see what's in the river at that time. You can also kick up some of the river bed with your foot and put your screen in front of it and let the current take it in to the net. I made a seine which is a larger version of this that is really cool. It's some kind of mesh fabric between two dowels. Then you have someone stand up stream and kick up the river bed. It's amazing what you will find. It's almost as fun as fishing. It's amazing how many places have craw dads in them.
As for colors of streamers when the water is not as clear I use dark colors like black because that will give a better outline for the fish to see. In the fall I also use brighter colors. I don't know why just read some places it is good ( like yellows and chartreuse). Depending on fish species as well. For example a good streamer for browns and cuts is a jj special (variation of a wooly bugger). the top of the tail has brown and the bottom has yellow. A lot of fish are dark on top and get brighter towards their bellies. This works as camouflage for them from predators like birds and fishermen. So use a fly that is darker on top and lighter on the bottom. Along this same line the fish that survives is going to be the one that blends into the river bottom where it is at so to pick a color you can look at the river bottom and try to match it. That's one reason why olive and brown wooly buggers work so well. That is the color of most river bottoms.
Probably to much info and I am definitely not a biologist so take it for what it's worth.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - iliketofish - 02-15-2010
Aside from figuring out what bugs you see hatching/drifting past/clinging to rocks etc, (which is probably the best thing to do but you already know), check hatch charts, since sometimes you might see bugs going off like green drakes for example, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every fish that's rising is eating green drakes. Especially if you're fishing in a popular spot, a fish that has been caught or already seen people fishing green drakes might switch to eating another bug like a pmd for example, but if you've checked the hatch chart you'll already know that possibility beforehand. but the point I'm trying to make is that the right fly could vary from fish to fish.
Also find a good reliable fly shop that you trust and ask them what's working, they'll be able to point you in the right direction as to not only what's hatching, but where the fishing's good and which variation of each particular species of bug is working at the time.
I guess there's no really good short answer to this question, people write books on this very topic (which are another good resource), any way good luck!
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - chrome_junky - 02-15-2010
a hatch chart is a handy tool to go along with screening but you dont need a screen to find out whats in the water find a good sized lava rock something poris and not so big that you cant pick it up. grab it out of the water and see what you find. look at pictures on the internet of what caddis pupa mayfly nymphs stone fly nymphs look like this will help you immensely. a hatch chart helps cause you can figure out what flys you are suppose to be looking for around that time of year so you can match dry fly patterns to it but you have to remember nymphs and pupa are in the water year round and thats why you can fish a rubber leg year round where there are stonefly nymphs. those bugs get tossed and knocked around out of there hiding spots and right into hungry fish's mouths by currents all the time. when a trout sees a stonefly nymph in the middle of winter they have a really hard time passing it up. southfork outfitters website has an awesome hatch chart that i have used alot in the past now i pretty much know what bugs to look for no matter what time of year it is so i dont use it so much anymore. there website also has a link to henrys fork anglers with the same hatch chart for the henrys fork. colors are where it gets fun sometimes color means everything other times if you throw on something that looks just a little different and the fish havnt seen that fly yet you will get amazing results so dont be scared to throw on a pattern of something with a little more flash or not quite so much flash or color.
hope that helps prvrt.
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Re: [chrome_junky] Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-15-2010
It looks like kinda what I thought. For the most part, matching the hatch is the first and foremost thing to do. I think when it comes to Nymphs and other things underwater, that seems to depend on the fisherman and time of year. When it comes to streamers and woolybuggers, I guess it is like regular fishing with Rapala's or Panther Martin's. Try a different color until you find the one that works. I was hoping that there was a simpler way of narrowing down the color or type of streamer, but it is looking like a little trial and error.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - chrome_junky - 02-15-2010
well the way i do streamers is its either gonna be a small fish pattern or a leech pattern so i determan what that body of water is more likely to produce bait fish or leeches? on the south fork i will throw streamers that look like fish. on the lower river towards idaho falls and down to shelley i will use woolly bugger and egg sucking leach patterns
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - flygoddess - 02-15-2010
I wish I could say I was that technical, but in all honesty, I just go with a few choices that just seem to work everywhere. And of course different hatches that I have just used as second nature.
I do pick days to experiment, but generally, I really don't have a problem finding a killer fly....must be the Goddess thing[
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - Tarponjim - 02-15-2010
I always just open the box, and choose the fly that I have the most confidence in, and therefore will fish the hardest with. I only concern myself with basic size and shape should I change flies, but most of the time a trout will take a variety of sizes and shapes of flies at any one time. I keep the flies simple, and focus completely on how I'm showing the fly to the fish. If they like the show, they'll usually eat it if it's remotely close.
I only change my confidence fly if I see fish refusing it with a perfect presentation. Then, I go to the fly I have the next-most confidence in, and that's a different size and shape than the first one was.
It only takes a few to get it right.
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Re: [flygoddess] Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-16-2010
I have been doing more and more of this type of random fly fishing. I use to go look for the hatch and try to match it, but lately I seem to revert back to something that has worked before on the water I am fishing. I almost always will pull out a copper john and throw it out. I have caught more fish on those little guys than all my other flies combined. I think it has a lot to do will the presentation since there is not much to it, just let them drift. I do once in a while have to adjust the depth I am fishing, but that is usually because of fishing a deeper river. If I do not have any hits in the first hour, I will start looking around for the hatch to see what is happening. No hatch? No problem, I will throw on a leech or something and do some stripping.
I know when I first started fly fishing, I started with dries. I caught very few fish and lost interest for a few years. I then tried years later and started with dries again. I caught a few here and there, mostly planters since they are just dumb. I them decided to try nymphing. Wow, what a difference. Presentation was not at all hard, and all you had to do was try to keep the fly just off the bottom. That was about the hardest thing until FG showed me her little adjustable float. Problem solved. I do fish streamers now and again, but only when I go with other people and that is what they are using. If the fishing is good, I will stick with the streamers, but if nothing is hitting, back to the nymphs. Every once in a while if there is a hatch of a big bug like a stone fly, I will fish a dry and drop a nymph below it.
FG, I still use a few of the tips you showed me from last summer. In fact, I tied up a few odd nymphs Sunday while the wind was blowing. Just wish there was more open water to try them out.
I started this thread just to get input from others to see what I was doing right or wrong and how to choose the right fly. Overall it seems that there is no wrong or right, just what works, or doesn't work. With the season coming up soon, and hopefully with the input here in this thread, maybe we can all learn a little from each other.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - flygoddess - 02-16-2010
Yeah, I am following this post as well. I do use a pump though to get what they are eating but more size and color for nymphs. Dries, I just have a few faves that work.
Come On soft water!!!!!
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Re: [flygoddess] Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-16-2010
I had forgot about the pump. I do have one and do use it if I can remember that I have it. Usually I get into catching and forget about checking things out like the hatch or pumping them to see what they are eating. There have been so many times I have been out fishing with friends and say, 'The next fish I will pump so we can see what they are eating'. Well, 4 fish later, they are asking what was in their stomach? My reply is always the same, "I forgot to check, I'll check the next one'. A few fish later and my friends will get the same answer. I guess I just get in to the moment and everything else is out the window. I am there to relax and have fun and try not to think to much. I guess it is working, at least the not thinking part.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - kochanut - 02-16-2010
me personally i dont match the hatch... i flip rocks and get something as close to color as possible. i then pick the correct size, i always go smaller never bigger, and i make sure my drift is perfect... i also study the water alot... i dont know its easier seen then explained i rekon
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - flygoddess - 02-16-2010
I have had trips that I have done good with my choice, but then I pump the stomach and try to match and MAN what a difference.
Check this out. From a local lake:
![[Image: IMG_1450.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/Lake%20C/IMG_1450.jpg)
My offering:
![[Image: IMG_0719.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/Flies/IMG_0719.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1578.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/Flies/IMG_1578.jpg)
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Re: [flygoddess] Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-16-2010
Very nice looking flies. The first one is some what close to what I was tying this weekend. I did not have a tail or the peacock in there and had a different color bead, but yeah, it is close. I am also experimenting with my rod building thread since I have so many colors and I also have metallic thread. It will be interesting to try them out.
That first pic looks like a few things would work. I can see some scuds in there in olive green. With a stomach full of things like that, you just about can not go wrong in picking a fly.
What hook are you using? I have been using a Mustad 3399a in size 16, but I do not like how close the gap is from the point to the shank. I need to find something with a wider gap like yours are in the pics.
I always tend to go smaller than what I see in the water also. I do that for 2 reasons. One is I usually fish with more than one fly which makes it a little easier to cast , and two, it seems the fish are less picky about something that looks right in color but just a little smaller. If it is bigger than anything else they have seen, the fish tend to look else where for dinner.
That bottom pic is some of my favorites for a certain few places I fish. [bob
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - flygoddess - 02-16-2010
You can tie them on a regular nymph hook, but like you, I like the wider gap.
I use ABI hooks. They are so darn sharp. And I use a #12 to a #16 depending on water and time of year, but don't be afraid to go bigger than what is present. Sometimes they are looking for that pounder instead of the 1/4.
That bottom fly is a before and after. My transformers. The top is dry, the bottom wet. It is red silk thread over burgundy tying thread. Great effect.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - windriver - 02-16-2010
First of all let me preface by saying I am a very amature flyfisherman. I love flyfishing, but I haven't spent the time to become truly good.
I search the water with generic patterns that could be several different things. I try to match the hatch as far as size and color if there is a massive hatch coming off that I can figure out.
I would say 90% of the time I start with either a pheasant tail or prince nymph.
Dryflies I almost always start with a royal wolfe, parachute adams or generic elk hair caddis, small streams I go with a renegade.
Streamers I like muddlers or double bunnies. Steelfisher has got me into another streamer but I can't remember the name right now.
Windriver
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Re: [windriver] Fly Fishing Guess Work - MatchT - 02-16-2010
I am a novice at fly fishing this and I will post my experience with fly fishing....
I have struggled catching fish with floating line. All year long I have tried to drop wet flies under dries such as hoppers but I never really landed much. I think most of it has to do with my presentation and proper drift.
I switched to sinking line in the still water I fish and I have been very successful mostly with brown, olive and black leech patterns. Holloween in the fall worked great. I usually trail these with a beadhead pheasant tail, prince nymph, or olive scud.
I tried the southfork this sunday with my wife, we got stuck in thesnow in the morning and only fished for about 2 hrs near the bridge at heise. She was able to get a few bites on rubber legs/prince nymph combo and I got nothing with both floating line and sinking. Some friendly guy that talked to me while I was stuck gave me some flies including some egg patterns...apparently browns or white fish are spawing and rainbows are after eggs. I am not familiar with the southfork but the water levels are so low its supposed to be really good for wading in some areas...I mostly encountered heavy snow banks down the path I took when I got stuck.
For me the river has been a different beast and I have yet to be able to spot "good fishing holes" or properly present a dry or wet fly with my fly rod. I did land two browns on bait but not as fun.
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Re: [MatchT] Fly Fishing Guess Work - prvrt - 02-16-2010
Good info. Sorry to here about being stuck MatchT. The fish spawning in the SF right now would be Whitefish. Browns spawn in the fall. Whitefish are quite easy to catch up there this time of year, or any time in the winter really. Try a Chartreuse Copper John about a size 16 or 18 dropped below a strike indicator about 12-18". They do fight pretty well, but not so sure on the taste. I still have yet to bring some home and try them.
That part of the river has also gave me troubles trying to find some decent holes. The canal head gates are one place to hit. Other than that, I just wander around the river channel looking for a hole.
One thing about fishing the river and using droppers. I usually have the best luck keeping the droppers as close to the bottom as you can and use the dry as an indicator. Look for a seam in the river about 2-4' deep and fish that. You should be able to pull something out of there. Also behind any rocks sticky out. Cast upstream of the rock and then let the flies drift right next to the rock down stream. Trout like to sit behind rocks because it takes very little energy to stay put and they also watch for the food to drift by.
One other thing I learned this last summer is you do not always want to be out in the middle of the river with your flies. I learned that walking out into the river about 30-40' and then turning around and fishing the bank produces quite well if there is a drop off or undercut. If you watch the guys in drift boats, they do the same thing. I hooked quite a few fish around Fall Creek last fall doing this and only hooked 2 fish farther out in the current.
It sounds like we are all a bunch of novices. I still prefer to fly fish than bait fish tho and I have bait fished for over 30 years. I am not sure if it is the challenge of catching a fish or the feel of playing a fish on a fly rod, but I enjoy the heck out of Fly Fishing.
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - MatchT - 02-16-2010
Thnks for the tips, I will keep them in mind next time we try it out....
I do believe you are right on the whitefish spawing..
our first stop that morning was at the feeder canal area before the bridge....it was too cold to cast and not build up ice after five minutes...
I was observing a couple of fish just hiding behind rocks like you said. you can walk right up to the bank there where the river bends at the gates... I tried to pay attention to the type of pool they were in and if I saw that from the other side of the bank how I could guess a similar pool would be like. but they werent interested in the nymphs we drifted by, I think mostly cuze we were standing right over them...
so we thought we should kill time by driving up towards heise and beyond...
After getting stuck and then unstuck we had a good time hiking around the river and enjoying the scenery...just west of the bridge
Met some great people that day..
Match
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Re: [prvrt] Fly Fishing Guess Work - scorsi - 02-16-2010
any one have a good suggestion for size and color of egg pattern to imitate whitefish roe?
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