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[#0000ff]I am attaching a mail copy of the newsletter I just got from the Utah Lake Commission. Lots of good info there.
Hope it works. I just got a new computer with Windows 10 and the mail system sucks (my opinion). I can no longer cut and paste...or make Word or PDF docs from email content.
Here is a [url "http://us14.campaign-archive2.com/?u=81543442399c32c0fce942192&id=093701e1bf"]DIRECT LINK[/url] to the newsletter on the Commission website.
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The direct link works better.
Good news on both the water levels and carp removal. (Hard to imagine that 24 million pounds of carp is only half of what's in there!)
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[#0000FF]I'm sure that any estimates of actual numbers are pure guesswork and speculation. Prior to the implementation of the carp removal program it was estimated that carpkind constituted up to 90 percent of the biomass in the lake.
As a Utah Lake "regular" I have noticed a reduction in the carp population. And the lower numbers have also seemingly increased the average size of the adults. That is typical when reducing numbers. The size of the survivors increases with more food.
I also believe the carp took a hit this past year for a couple of other reasons. The low water and poor water quality (algae bloom, etc.) caused thousands of carp to crowd upstream in the Provo River to find more oxygen and better living conditions. Large numbers of these carp were killed, in addition to those removed from the lake by netting.
Another downer for the carp this past year was heavier reduction by the predators. White bass are in a down cycle. Their numbers are low and there was another poor spawn this past year. So bigger fish that normally rely on young white bass for several months food supply had to resort to eating more baby carp.
Ultimately, the goal is to reach a "tipping point" where carp numbers remain low and stable. They continue to live and spawn each year, but predators eat enough of the young to prevent any increases in carp population. That is a condition that exists in several other carp venues in Utah. It would be good to see it finally happen on Utah Lake.
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Thanks for the update, do you have any info on the Provo harbor dredging this spring, what going to take place, time line.
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Pat do you think there is actually a tipping point for carp? They are so prolific that it's hard to believe you can get to a point where their population can be kept in check... I hope it's so, but like you have said in the past, they grow so fast that it doesn't take long for their young to get large enough that the other predators cant eat them anymore.. I know we have seen the chubs seemingly come under control in some areas which I didn't think was possible, so maybe it can happen, I'm just a little skeptical... Later J
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[#0000FF]Sorry. My most recent inquiries got no response.
Last April I got info that the dredging was supposed to happen in the fall of 2016. Funds had been approved and a contractor secured. But while the water level was at its lowest the plans were put on hold. Now it's back on...but no details.
The Utah Lake Commission is pretty good about releasing the info as soon as they can verify it. When I get the updates I will pass them on to this forum.
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[#0000FF]There are several Utah waters in which there are carp coexisting semi peaceably with other species...and not taking over the whole lake like they did at Utah Lake...and Yuba. There are Willard, Pineview, Cutler, Deer Creek, Starvation and Flaming Gorge to name a few.
Yes, carp are prolific and are capable of reproducing in great numbers. However, when conditions are right for carp spawning they also seem to favor the predators. Sure, there are up and down cycles, but over time the carp never seem to get too far out of hand. And, yes, I believe this is possible in Utah Lake.
Carp were planted back in the late 1800s in Utah lake as a food source to replace the dwindling cutthroats and suckers...which had been badly overharvested by the pioneers...and had suffered from harmful agricultural and industrial practices. However, they did not reach "critical mass" until after the major drought of the early 1930s.
There was no system of water level management in Utah Lake at the outlet...such as there is now...and the lake dropped to an average level of only 1 foot. That just about finished off all the cutts and most of the other desirable but tender species. But, carp are hardy souls. They survived the stressful low water conditions. And when water levels increased their population exploded in the absence of any real predators.
There were still a few holdover catfish and largemouths, which are pretty tolerant of low water periods as well. But not enough to adversely affect the carp explosion. And walleyes, white bass and other potential carp eaters came later. Here is a partial list of introduced fish species in "Golden Pond".
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[#0000FF]1871- Black bullhead.
1879-carp
1890-Largemouth bass, bluegills, green sunfish, yellow perch, crappie
1911-Channel catfish
1912-smallmouth bass
Early 1900's-Arctic grayling, lake trout, eels, chinook salmon
1950's-walleye, Northern pike
1956- white bass
I am attaching a PDF file showing the decline of other species in the lake, coinciding with the increase of carp...mostly related to the aforementioned factors of overharvest and drought.
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Grayling, Chinook Salmon and Lake Trout. Holy balls! I hope the panel of heroes that approved that at least later apologized. If the Lake frequently dropped to 1 ft deep and someone agreed that Lake Trout would be a good idea then they were smoking some pretty good stuff.
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Hey that's pretty interesting stuff, not sure I agree carp are in harmony at Cutler, I think they are similar to Utah lake.... But I do think the mix of more predators in Cutler is dropping the bullhead cat numbers significantly... I hope it will slow the carp, but they are a pretty strong force to overcome... Maybe fishing with corn will let us catch more carp this summer... Hope I can figure out how to make that work.... Thanks for the wealth of knowledge again Pat, you're amazing for the background you know and can produce documentation on... Thanks J
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[#0000FF]The people who managed our fisheries in earlier times can be forgiven their less learned enthusiasm. In those days there was not the science nor the advanced level courses available for men and women who entered the field of fisheries management.
Utah was still a fairly young state...less than 100 years old...and the native species were fragile, abused and disappearing quickly. Utah Lake needed some help. It was actually commendable that the fisheries folks were at least "trying"...even if that trying included throwing a lot of "stuff" against the wall just to see what might stick.
I gotta believe that those early Utah Lake rebuilders had good intentions. I also believe that they did not believe that everything they dumped in the lake would succeed well. To their credit they did not stock marlin or tuna.
Today our DWR folks are mostly well educated with advanced degrees in biology and fisheries management. Sadly, they get far too much "help" from bucket biologists and negative input from wannabee biologists who don't know squat. Now they spend more time trying to undo what dimbulbs have done and trying to put out public relations fires started by politicians, city management officials and plain old citizen rabble-rousers.
Make Utah Lake Great Again. (Rumble - Rumble)
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[#0000FF]You are far more intimately acquainted with Cutler than I am. I bow to your observations. I was merely insinuating that there is still a good population of "the other guys" and that carp have not completely crowded them out yet.
Thanks for the kindly comments. I have worked to gather as much background info as possible over the years on that muddy pond. I am in the process of doing a 10 year rewrite on my original Utah Lake Fishing book. I will likely delay the final product pending the outcome of the runoff and the observed affects on the fisheries of the prolonged drought.
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How do you find all the data on Utah lake? Just wondering so I could learn more about my home pond of Cutler. Seems like Cutler was long neglected and ignored since it was a dirty down water pond so I don't think they did much for management of it prior to the eighties. But I'd like to learn more about it. Interesting stuff there Pat. Thanks J
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[#0000FF]Hard to compare Cutler and Utah Lake. The latter has a lot more historical significance and is much more prominent both as a recreational water and as a major component in Utah growth and industry. Thus, Utah Lake gets more attention and has more agencies actively involved...past, present and future.
A lot of my collection of charts, graphs, diagrams and writeups comes from pieces I have "salvaged" from various pamphlets, videos and meetings on Utah Lake. Since the inception of the June Sucker Recovery Program...and the formation of the Utah Lake Commission...there has been a lot more to pirate from. There is also a wealth of background info on Utah Lake if you search through the various news publications of the DWR.
DWR periodically puts together public info and awareness programs on various topics. Utah Lake has been the subject of a few of those...and if you beg and grovel you can sometimes get copies of the pages they prepare to project on the screens. Here are a couple of examples of that.
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Yep Cutler has always been the red headed step child so it's been sort of neglected. No recognized species becoming extinct so it keeps getting ignored. But maybe that's a good thing. Thanks for the info. J
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Wonder why the chart doesn't include the two species of catfish?
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[#0000FF]Anytime you ask a question that begins with the word "why"...and people are involved...there is not likely to be a good answer.
The effective dates of plantings of both bullhead and channel cats are included in the copy and paste chart I included previously. But for some reason they did not deem it important to keep track of populations. Wonder why.
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Pat,
As far as Utah waters with successful carp tipping points you forget about the Happiest Place on Earth, Powell!
Hope you have great 'ice off' fishing this year,
Shane
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[#0000FF]Definitely didn't forget about it. Intentionally omitted it as not a pond within easy access by the Wasatch fronters. But you are right. The carp are not in the majority down there. Something about stripers, bass, walleyes and catfish all chowing down on them.
Those big stripers down there are feasting more on large gizzard shad these days. But in times past it was not unusual for any striper over about 10 pounds to have good-sized carplets in their tummies. Heard tell of one in the 40 plus pound range with about a 3# carp in its innards.
Too bad the little cousins to the stripers...white bass...don't get as big and hungry as their bigger relatives. That would put a hurtin' on those pucker lipped beauties in Utah Lake. But then again, we would probably not have any Junies left either.
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Can you imagine if UL were like the striper impoundments like some of the other stars have!
I'm getting all warm and tingly just thinking about it.
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[#0000FF]And while we're at it, let's add a few flathead catfish and some alligator gars. Both get big and nasty and both eat carp. Heck, why not toss in some giant snakeheads from Asia too?
Well, that should take care of the fragile few remaining Junies...so the feds will go away and we can get back to "normal"...whatever that is.
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