hybrids

[danzilla]

I was thinking this may be a dumb question but are all hybrids steryl? or just select speicies.

DZ
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[AFDan52]

[font "Arial"][red][size 2] I'm not really sure about all Hybids, but I know that Wipers and Tiger Musky are streile. I think you have have very valid question.[/size][/red][/font]

[font "Arial"][#ff0000][size 2] AFDan52[/size][/#ff0000][/font]
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[Anthonygreer]

"Most are incapable of reproduction, which is often viewed as an advantage."

I picked that off of this website: [url "http://www.fish.state.pa.us/Fish/qw03-09hybrids.htm"]http://www.fish.state.pa.us/Fish/qw03-09hybrids.htm[/url]

Anthony
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[Lonnie]

Hey Danzilla you ask an interesting question,which I have ask before due to an experience a couple of summers ago.I was fishing just off skyline drive in a small lake called blue lake.It was very scenic and was loaded with tiger trout.We were casting flies and bubles with great success with a mixed bag of 12-16"tigers,and 2-3"fingerling tigers.I have since wondered why the fingerlings?This lake was no more than 8'deep and I'm sure it would winterkill so it would not make sinse to plant fingerlings just a couple of months before freeze up,but it was loaded with them,so I have wondered if they were possibly offspring of the larger ones,or just a fish and game waste of money.Any thoughts?
Lonnie
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[aquaman]

i read a article last year unable to find it at present but it stated a wiper could spawn if one of its parent parent species was also present heres a quote below i did find on one site verifying it is possable

[font "Arial"][#009999]REPRODUCTION
[/#009999]Hybrid striped bass, like many hybrids, experience great difficulty reproducing naturally. Eggs and sperm produced by hybrids are usually weak or improperly formed. The same is true of any fry that might be produced by chance fertilization. For this reason, hybrids are considered “functionally sterile,” and their populations are totally dependant on repeated stockings. [/font]

[font "Arial"]so while it seems possable....its not likely[/font]
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[PBH]

it all depends on the hybrid. Think of crossing a horse with a donkey. You are crossing two different completely different species, which results in a sterile jack-ass. Same thing with fish. A cross between a rainbow and a cutthroat will result in a very potent hybrid capable of reproducing. When you cross a brook trout with a brown trout you are actually crossing two different species (brook trout are actually a char, and brown trout are a trout). The result is a sterile "jack-ass" tiger trout. Another example is a Splake. Splake are the result of crossing a brook trout with a lake trout. These fish are both chars, and the result is a splake. Sterile or not? depends. Some splake are capable of reproducing (many actually try to spawn), but you would have to have a fertile splake compete with fertile lake trout to fertilize the lake trout eggs....chances of this happening are extremely low...although there are many lakes in Minnesota that will not stock Splake because of this very reason...they don't want the native lake trout breeding with splake...



So, to answer your question some hybrids are fertile, while others are not. In the case of the tiger trout experience at Blue Lake, I would say there is no chance in hell of a tiger trout reproducing. Most likely, that lake (even if it is shallow) does not winterkill. I can't say for sure without knowing the lake, but don't count on tiger trout reproducing....afterall, that is why they are being stocked...their numbers are controllable, because they can't reproduce. If the lake had a problem with winterkill, you would most likely see brook trout being stocked...
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[Utcatman]

this is an interesting topic... i was thinking about it the other day....

JOe
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[southernman]

I appreciate your analogy - but actually the cross between a female horse and a donkey (more appropriately called a jack ass) is a mule . . and yes a mule is sterile . .

A mule is a cross between a mare (a female horse) and a jackass (a male donkey). A hinny is a cross between a jennet (a female donkey), and a stallion (a male horse). Hinnies are less common than mules because jennets and stallions have a lower conception rate than mares and jackasses. In general, hinnies tend to be smaller and more horse-like than mules, but the similarities between hinnies and mules far out number the differences. A mule and a hinny can only be distinguished by parentage, not by appearances. Hinnies and mules have the same sexual characteristics and drive as their parents but they are sterile due to an uneven number of chromosomes. Like horses, male mules should always be gelded.

[url "http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=123"]http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=123[/url]

[url "http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991021.html"]http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991021.html[/url]

[url "http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/donkterm.htm"]http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/donkterm.htm[/url]



sm
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[PBH]

thanks for that clarification?

To delve further into the complications of which parent is male and female:

The tiger trout is a cross between a female brown trout and a male brook trout. The reason for this is because a male brown x female brook experienced higher mortality rates at all stages (uneyed-egg, eyed-egg, and alevin) while the female brown x male brook cross only experienced heavy losses at the alevin stage. Thus, early survival of tiger trout can be maximized by the use of the brown females X brook male cross.



Splake are the result of a male lake trout and a female brook trout.....



You know what....does it really matter which parent is the male, and which is the female for the purpose of this discussion? Not really...

[font "Arial"][size 2][/size][/font]

I know that this is pointing to the "other" site...but there was a pretty good discussion on this over there, lots of good information...

[url "http://www.utahonthefly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6109&highlight=brake+trout"]http://www.utahonthefly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6109&highlight=brake+trout[/url]
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[Xman]

hey dan

all hybrids have the potential to spawn. some have but most never do unless its perfect conditions. i spoke to the aquatic biologists about this a few years ago they explained it perfectly. so that answer is really yes they wont reproduce but there is the potential to spawn under perfect conditions.


after reading pbh post he made a good point of species cross breeding. the char and the salmonids are sterile. otherwise the hybrids in the same genre have the potential to spawn but its not likely.
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[cat_man]

Just imagine breeding with a relative -- like a brother or sister -- the kids supposedly come out with all kinds of deformaties and retardation if they survive at all.

I'm sure it's the same with any fish that breeds with a different species...messes up their DNA.
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