What is this I hear, no hockey?

[davetclown]

I hear that hockey might be taking a break this year. (strike)

owners across the board want pay caps for its players. yet they have the longest season of all sports played. they have more sell outs than any other sport, hey have more sponcers than any other sport,

dont get me wrong here, if they dont play a single game this year my fealings wont be hurt, I am not much of a hockey fan. but if my little sister hears me say this I will loose what is left of my [shocked].

has any one heard anything from thier local news stations that I havent heard here in detroit?
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[shewicker]

Couldn't be a worse time for that sport. The popularity is declining and now the players and owners have to get all greedy. They should never have expanded so much when the sport was peaking in the early to mid 90's. I think they should have also put some of those teams in northern regions where the sport is more popular. Obviously Hartford suffered, but they were surrounded by the Bruins and 2 New York teams and a Jersey team that wins, but Minnesota was a good place to keep a team instead of moving them. They finally replaced them, but it was too late.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.[unsure]
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[Hutch00]

Believe it or not the southern teams do as good or better then the northern teams the 2 Fla teams sell out or close to it almost every game in Dallas they sell out most of the season there are 7 minor league teams in Houston that have waiting lists for tickets and they can't get an NHL team the NY islanders are close to Bankruptcy the NY rangers last season were begging for people to come to their games and they used to sell out and have a waiting list and the NJ Devils who manage to keep one of the lowest payrolls and are the only team in Pro sports to be paid by the State (Thanks to Former Gov. Whitman) to play in NJ are always crying that they are broke and they are also begging for people to fill the seats some games they are lucky if there is 5,000 people in the stands even had a hard time selling playoff games the last stanley cup final in NJ there were still seats available the ticket prices are ridiculous the concession stand prices are ridiculous plus they bang you for parking and the teams want all of that money they complain about the players wanting 75% of the money earned by the league but the league wants 100% of all the money taken in at the arenas and then they want to hold state governments hostage and bully them into building new arenas so the greed is the only thing that the players,owners and the Nhl have in common and the only real losers in this whole mess are the fans and the arenas and of course the people that work in these arenas will now suffer also
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[davetclown]

again I say I am not a fan of hockey, but the numbers the owners are crying about just dont jive. especialy in my neck of the woods. home of the "red wings"

I cant walk in to any retail store with out finding the franchise selling hockey parifinaila. and since the players belong to the owners so dose the royaltys of the hockey trinket business. red wings is a traid mark and every player owned by the red wings is also covered by the traid mark ownership.

the owners know for a fact that if one game dose not play the loss of ticket sales is a drop in the bucket to what they realy make in marketing. every mom and pop shop is selling red wing cards, pendants flags shorts and shirts swets and the list goes on and on and on.... reason I am not a fan, I see just to much for me to want to look at any more.

I dont realy know who the owners are trying to fool, it certainly isnt the fans, they know better, they are the ones footin the stadium concessions. and yes 25 bucks to feed your kid a a hockey game is hiway robbery as far as I am concerned.

nope the owners dont need to come to me for simpithy, they will only find the hand cause the head aint listinin...

we get the same rigamortis here in mich as well. all these sports owners want the tax payers to foot the bill for thier colleseums. lions just got a brand new one, their second new stadium in my life time. the lions never played well enough for the last stadium let alone have the need for a new one. what gets me the most about that one is the new one is two thirds the size of the old one... and they left the city of pontiac holding the bag. the lions bugged out of the contract with pontiac 5 years early. you know how much they had to pay to get out of that contract.

but back to the hockey issue, I have yet to see a red wings game that did not have a full house. you want tickets for a red wings game... you better get in line in may for a january game. forget a season tickets game they are sold out long before the previous season came to an end.

that right our season ticket holders are left holding the bag on this deal. the owners should have addresed this the last day of the season and not the day before the new season begains. holding the coustomer *fan* hostage is just plain dirty pool.

the red wings are playing in the oldest standing stadium in the business. the joe lewis arenia.

now we all like foot ball and we know how hard they play. have you ever checked the on a hockey player, not one of them has a of thier own. every one of them has teeth knocked out, scars and gashes in their faces broken bones. and once in a great while between all the kicking hi sticking and checking a little hockey is played. not just one night per week, but as many as three times a week. in addition to this the season runs 9 months... 10 months if they make it in to the play offs. do these players make the same as a foot ball player or even a base ball player or even a pro boxer for that matter. loard knows that they are taking a beating. and loard knows that when a hockey player is done, he is done... he aint no good for nothing else. closed head injuries, crippled bodies and lack of formal education leaves these men not fit to pick your trash from your street corner.

so I say to the owners "get real"
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[Hutch00]

I agree with you for the most part but the thing most people don't know and the players assoc. doesn't deny is that 75% of every dollar earned by the teams goes to the players towards their salaries and pension fund I have no sympathy for either players or owners they are equally greedy I work at continental airlines arena in NJ where the Devils Play and without us they would not be able to play a game we set up the ice we do the changeovers from Basketball to hockey and back again we do everything to set up the arena for them to play their GAME and make their millions of dollars so maybe we should go on strike for million dollar salaries too cause without us there would be no Ice for them to PLAY on when they break a glass during a game thats my face you see out there changing the glass and cutting my hands on the broken glass and we have a hard time getting a dollar raise I have no sympathy for either side in this dispute its the fans and people like me getting hurt in this the players will go and play in europe and still get paid the nhl has a 300million dollar war chest to sustain them we are threatened with layoffs do you get my point
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[davetclown]

I cant argue with that logic, nor would I even attepmt to.

and if you guys dont live at least middle class and have a sound reiterment package and a severance insurance package for when these bozo's go on strike you should go on a wild cat strike the minute they settle thier business.

I agree that you should ne be held hostage nor should the fans. this should have been settled last spring when their season was over, and since you say and I have heard as well many of the players have already signed contracts out of country which means you will probably lose more than 30 % of your income if I have figured this right. and the zambonie driver will not work at all.

I am not a hockey fan, but I do follow baseball a bit even if the tigers loose I still like to tune in on the radio. I remember just a few years back when we did not have any base ball.

the way it sounds, there wont be a hockey season this year. you know these guys cant back out of any contracts they have signed out of country.

there should be no reason for you to have to be a starving artist. Even in the kitchen where I have worked the watresses knew to share the tips with the dish washers and other ecential help. they know with out the dish washer speed and expert skill that if a coustomer sits down to a dull or spotted peice of silver whear or a filmy glass that their tips will fall through the floor.

the cook is the star and is paid well for his efforts and he makes sure his dish washers are fed better than the rest of the help because that is his contribution.

you are absolutly correct that the service department is a major contribution to the game. they get soft or sticky ice the puck wont fly across the ice and neither will the players.

changing gears here, I always wondered just how you guys were able to have ice one day boxing the next sesimee street the day after that then basket ball and then back to hockey all in the same week. that realy boggles the mind. I know how long it takes to defrost my freezer, I just did it last weekend, 9 hours it was, and mine wasnt ice it was just 3 inches of frost.

would you mind clueing me in on how you do it... just how do you get the ice off the floor in a days time and back on again?
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[davetclown]

here is a thought, you guys should call your union and hire jeffery figer to see if he cant sue the hockey federation union and the owners for lost wages. they certianly had several months to hash through this.

I think all the grounds keepers and all the concession people who had bid and paid for the comcessions rights should be able to sue as well.

I think it is down right inconciderate of both of them for this. if not criminal.... It sure would be nice to see these guys have to pay for their vacation....

after all it is your lively hood and you dont deserve to be heald hostage because of tallant and owner disagreements.
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[DrownedDesertRat]

What I heard on the radio is that the league has been losing money each year because of the high pay that the players are getting. They also said that the owners want to put in place a salary cap of $1.2 million but some players are already making a lot more than that and that is why the league is losing money.

I'm not a hockey player but I'm surrounded by them here in Minnesota. I'd hate to not have a hockey season around here because that would make the road rage so much worse.
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[DrownedDesertRat]

[reply]I think all the grounds keepers and all the concession people who had bid and paid for the comcessions rights should be able to sue as well.

I think it is down right inconciderate of both of them for this. if not criminal.... It sure would be nice to see these guys have to pay for their vacation....

after all it is your lively hood and you dont deserve to be heald hostage because of tallant and owner disagreements.[/reply]I very much agree with this. They (the owners and talent) should be paying the concession workers and building maintenance workers for the time they're not going to be able to work because of the argument over money.
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[davetclown]

that is what the red wings owners say as well.

let me put it to you this way. If you knew what the owner of the company you worked for was making 10 million dollars of your face anualy before the season pay and advertisment pay rolls in, tell me you would not go after a larger peice of the pie. this is why there are players making far more than what the owners want for a cap.

the truth of the matter is that they can make more out of the country for a season playing hockey than what the salery cap would offer, tell me you would not go over seas as well... I sure would. 1.2 mill here or 2.5 mill over seas... no contest...

to see who is telling the truth here all you have to do is pull up the blue book of who is who and what they are worth. the red wing corp and any other team corp yearly proffits are public knolage.

these players have people who look in to the owners pocket books all the time. this how they can nigotiate and demand high salarys and get it.

what you can expect to see hapen is that the players who are already making over the salary cap will sign the agreement provided they are exempt from the contract.

giving all the new players the shaft to keep their status.

well I realy cant say this for a fact. but I did one time a long time ago work for a company and was part of a union where I was sold out by union members above me and lost what would have been my guarenteed wages and medical and retirement packages so that they could keep getting theirs and have their percentage raises gaurenteed....

I quit soon after I learned that I was sold out by my union. learning I would never make more than 7 dollars an hour where the guys with one more year seinority would be making double and tripple with all the perks...

lol I hate being on the sapped end, and my concence would not allow me to be on the sapping end....

I do agree that we can expect a spike in road rage, there are a lot of blood seeking fans aroun my area as well... and already I can feel the tention growing in the ranks. they want blood.....
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[Hutch00]

I wish we could strike but since the state owns the building we are considered state workers and the law here is state workers can't strike and we are hearing that this lockout may last 2 seasons and to answer your questions about the way things work at arenas we cover the ice we don't take it out except when the circus comes other then that the ice is down for the whole season we use homosote which is a type of insulation made from ground up newspaper with a wax coating so it doesn't stick to the ice and the only time the ice is listed as bad ice is when the home team loses they always blame the ice but both teams have to play on the same ice sometimes we do a double day a basketball game in the afternoon and a hockey game at night on the same day we have to run around real quick on those days it takes about 8 hours to make the ice at the begining of the season the lines are tissue paper the logos are all hand painted and so is the goal crease ( the area the goalie stands in) the only good thing about this strike is that the basketball court is easier to put together without the ice and homosote down it slides much better on the concrete the bad thing is they aren't releasing enough of the cancelled hockey dates so the building can book other events we need at least 2 months to book an event they only gave us 1 month and the devils managemetn still hasn't released those dates to us there is alot more money to be lost by this mess then the public knows about hopefully both sides will wake up and smell the coffee soon I don't think that the league can withstand the loss of fanbase that they will face in a long lockout they still haven't fully recovered from the lockout in 1995 when they cancelled half the season we just have to hope that they come to their senses my union has told us to expect the worst case which is a long dragged out fight I think the next time they do play and they break a glass I'll refuse to go out and replace it until they compensate me better
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[davetclown]

to bad I am not a hungry lawer, I bet I could prove dammages to you and your family because they did not attempt to settle this in a timely manner. they should have been at the negotian tables long before the last season ended.

even if you are a state employee you are entitled to some kind of compensation. what I dont understand is, they are paying for the use of the arena weather they play or not.

there is no way the state will allow some one to tie up the arena with out compusation... especialy at this time of year. there are so many shows that could use the space. especialy with you mirical workers redily available...

arena foot ball, junior mbx raceing, even setting in a public roller skating rink or even ice skating rink.

and what about all the junior teams there, they sure could use the space to pratice on... I think the state may be dropping the puck through the fishing hole on this one... from the discription of your skills and abilities....
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[Hutch00]

To bad you're not a lawyer Dave we could use you here but seriously there are to many clauses in our union contract with the nj Sports authority who is the state agency that runs the arena that prevent us from fighting them it was one of the concessions we had to make in order to get as many guys as we have working steady at the arena I mean we are Union Carpenters with steady year round jobs I've been there 16 years steady that is unheard of in the construction trades so I really can't complain but I still have no sympathy for either the team owners or players they both knew this was comming and did nothing but fight with each other about it both sides want it all
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[davetclown]

the structure of the game needs to be revamped any ways.

we only have two canadian team playing in our sercut (as far as I know) we should have teams from all over the world playing in our sercut.

hey maybe we can get some one to teach fly casting. plenty of room in the arena for a dozen casters. and in the seats they can hold presentation classes and in other areas they can do fly tieing classes.
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[Hutch00]

Now thats the best Idea I've heard in a long time
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[fish4fish]

Hutch do you get payed weither the hokey teams play or not? If not then i could see a nice legal payout but you do get payed i bet it is going to be a nice break not getting the ice ready all the time.
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[Hutch00]

yes I do we still have Basketball games and concerts but some will get laid off cause without hockey we don't need as many people In my dept. we already lost 4 men which puts me next in line if they decide to cut further and lets not forget the concession stand workers and the parking lot people and the ticket takers and others that only work when there is an event going on it adds up to 42 days less work for them and if you add in the playoffs it adds up to alot of cash that people lose the devils offices already laid off almost half of their empolyees
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[davetclown]

remember that thing I said about using the arena for a public skating rink?

Well Winsor is doing just that thing with their maple leafs arena and advertising it on local tv stations....

I havent heard anything about the vancoover areana yet. Windsor is semi local for south east MI. Joe Lewis arena dosnt seem to be missing out eather. they are making bookings left and right. apperently they were clued in with advanced notifications.

I wouldnt be suprised if the leage owners didnt have some kind of arangement with other foregin leages... (ya know kickbacks and ownerships)

LOL here I go again with my conspeiricy theries again...
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[Hutch00]

I hear Ya dave but we have the Devils to deal with their management is even hated by the league they won't release the dates that are held open for hockey till the last minute which doesn't give the building management enough time to book other events the GM of the devils Lou Lamorillo is a no good rotten% $^&*#&#@^@& need I say more a couple of years ago our former Governor Christie Whitman signed a deal wit the devils to keep them here as they were threatening to move to Nashville they get paid $81,000.00 per game here wether the game is played or not the only team in Pro sports that is paid to play in their home arena or field our former Gov. sold us out she should have called their bluff so they aren't losing that much money not playing and are puting the squeeze on the state and still have the guts to want a new arena built for them they also had the Chance to have thier farm team the Albany River Rats play their games at our arena and were offered a sweet deal to bring them here during the lockout and turned it down they would rather see the arena dark next tuesday the GM of the arena is having a meeting with us to let us know what will happen hope it doesn't mean Layoffs
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[davetclown]

OK, now I get the breach of contract picture....[pirate]
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