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I just got off the phone with a biologist from the central region and spoke with him about several things...walleye and yuba first. He mentioned that the DWR has tried to get threadfin minnows into Yuba before but have been rejected because of their threat to leatherside and least chubs which are both close to the endangered list. In mentioning this, he also noted that it was upsetting to not get these forage in the reservoir for a couple of reasons 1) Mona Reservoir was basically taken away from sport fishermen because of june suckers (the Feds are trying to get them reestablished in Mona; hence, no more wipers, bass, or any other fish that might compete with them) without all the red tape that the DWR has to go through to stock fish. 2) He mentioned his biggest fear with Jordanelle...he mentioned that last year's surveys revealed a whole year's class of perch totally missing. He fears that these perch are gone because of the explosion of walleye. He also noted that the smallmouth situation continues to cause serious concern because the small fish are gradually disappearing...also possibly because of the walleye. He couldn't verify this, but he said he would know for sure if they find good numbers of walleye in the nets and their fish surveys. He mentioned that many of the walleye fishermen might be excited about this possibility, but, the problem, he noted, was that without the small perch there are no forage fish for the walleye. This is a recipe for a busted population and future stunting.
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THOSE BIG SMALLIES ARE EATING JUS AS MANY PERCH AS THE EYES. MANY GUYS HAVE POSTED THAT AS THEY WERE REALING IN A PERCH A GIANT SMALLIE CAME UP AND STOLED IT. A SIX POUND SMALLIE CAN EAT A 8 OR 9 IN PERCH. OR MAYBEE YOU CORRECT ITS ALL THE WALLEYES FAULT. NOT, AND WHAT ABOUT A 8 OR 10 POUND BROUN. 12 IN PERCH NO PROBLEM... THANX FOR THE INFO EVEN IF IT IS ONE SIDED.
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There is one big difference, though...the perch, smallmouth, and "broun"s have been living together in Jordanelle for quite a few years now without the perch disappearing. Now that the perch and the smallmouth are disappearing, what is the culprit? If it were the "broun"s, why didn't it happen sooner? If it is just the smallmouth, why didn't those big smallmouth eat all the perch sooner? Why would the perch suddenly start to disappear when the number of smallmouth has started to decline and not when their numbers were higher? Are you so ignorant that you can't see that the walleye will eat themselves out of forage? Don't you realize their are numerous other examples where they have done the same thing right in our own state?
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By the way some people talk about walleye and their joy at the result of illegal planting...and potential destruction of one of the greatest fisheries in the country, I wonder who...is, among the group of bucket biologists???
Do they lurk among us???
Are they vocal and singing the praises of illegal stocks?
I have to wonder???
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Could it also be that with a six year drought just ending the water level of the lake was lowered. How would this cause a missing year of little perchies and smallies? Maybe the eggs were left high and dry. Also maybe less cover in the shallows for the little guys. And if there are so many walleye in the Nelle why are there not more anglers accidently catching them? While I don't doubt there are walleyes in there, I think there would be more showing up on the end of lines.
John
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WOW...here we go agian..Look,the DWR knew of the possibilty of walleyes establishing in lake X when they where building the resivior,because of the EYES in the upper provo river.Also if they are sooooooooo concerned about the perch population then why did they up the limit to 50 a day??If there so worried about it then close the posession of perch for 2 years on lake X and let them build it back up.I never had a problem catching perch last spring while fishing for smallies,and agian if there are sooooooo many walleye in lake X then more people would be catching them.The DWR dosent even know what there doing half the time anyway we are all getting miss info on this topic.look how many years they screwed the berry up and alomost did it agian after the last treatment in 89-90.They recently realized how bad the fishing got a few years back when there was a 8 fish limit and you could keep the cutts you caught until It dawend on the on moring we better tighten the limit and set a slot limit up there,which they should of done in the first place after reopening up to fishing.They are going to have to figure somthing out for lake X if the EYES do become established,like closing the possesion of perch for a few years.
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The loss of smallmouth can also be at least partially contributed to the rise of perch...the perch were really picking off the young smallmouth. The perch are missing one year class...the young ones from last year...they were there in the spring and gone in the fall. The smallmouth have various age classes, but their overall numbers are declining. Normally you would think that the lack of walleyes showing up in the creel would be an indicator that they are not there...but, how many people are specifically targeting them at Jordanelle? As many have mentioned on this site, they are not the easiest game fish to catch. You just don't throw out a gob of power bait and bobber and catch lots of walleye. Again, the biologist is just speculating at one possibility...right now he doesn't know. But, they will begin their spring fish surveys soon and should know more in a month or so.
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W&B,
Did you ask him if the drawdown of Jordanelle to make the Rock Cliff improvements contributed to the poor year class? When they took it down last summer, it left a lot of grassy and brushy areas that were crawling with perch fry high and dry. Better water in there this year should keep that from happening again.
For the record, I have opined repeatedly on this forum that the walleyes will eventually speed up the end of the X as a world record potential smallie fishery, especially as the flooded woody vegetation breaks down and prey fish have fewer places to hide. The irony of this problem is that the eyes don't mess up the rainbow fishing much (so long as they are planted large enough not to get gobbled up) but they do real damage to a "fellow" warmwater fishery. DC and the X are massively underrated as trout fisheries and will probably stay that way. My biggest cutt and 2nd best bow last year came out of the X while fishing for bass.
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I did quite a bit of surveying Lake X this winter and small perch are still thick in there . I tried to put a dent in the population myself . Perch were thick as flies and these fish had very little problem with air bladders too because the ones I released burped on the way down to bottom every time I released one . I hooked many from 3" to 9" this past ice season . The ones over 9" are the ones hard to find . Maybe that is the year class that has been missing . I would like to find the walleye , bluegill , and crappie in there for some thing else to hook up on if they are in there . I couldn't find any and I fished it pretty hard .
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Very good point HA. I fished Rock Cliffs on the hard deck several times this winter and would definitely agree with you. I too was catching several cohorts of perch including the "young of year" 2-3 inchers. Perhaps the "day of reckoning" is still a ways away. (I hope)
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[cool]Hey worm and bobber, please let us know about the results from the gill net study coming up next month. This is a fascinating topic, and one that I think concerns a lot of us BFT'ers since there's so many different types of fishing to do there at Lake X.
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[cool]Hey dogonfishin, just out of curiosity, how big were those two big trout you caught last year at the X? I've never caught a cut there, but don't doubt at all that there's quite a few in there.
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Fished the lake many times last year and found NO lack of pearch from 3" to 6". Twice I met and was surveyed by state Biologist running around in a Aluminum Boat about my catch. On both occasions he implied that Walleye were in the Lake, When questioned however he stated that in all his contact with fisherman he had not seen even ONE Walleye caught by any fisherman. NOW GO FIGURE The fishing methods (near the bottom with Jiggs- Throwing lures at shoreline structure) always seemed to catch plenty of Pearch and Walleye at Yuba COULD this be any different?????
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The cutt was 23 1/2 inches long with an impressive girth and length exceeding anything I pulled out of Strawberry this year or last. It may have been my heaviest cutt ever, although i have caught some of similar length. The bow was nothing special, 19 inches, but I also picked up several 18 inchers on a regular basis up there, both bassin and ice fishing. For accuracy, I did ring up a couple of DC bows last year (winter 2004) thru the ice that may have been bigger in weight (not length) than that lake X fish, but I guess that goes along with my original point.
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[reply]
...last year's surveys revealed a whole year's class of perch totally missing. He fears that these perch are gone because of the explosion of walleye. He also noted that the smallmouth situation continues to cause serious concern because the small fish are gradually disappearing...also possibly because of the walleye... [/reply]
I find this extremely hard to believe. If there are enough walleye in there to severely affect the perch & smallmouth populations, why do anglers never catch any walleye there? Even if they are not being "targeted", it would be almost impossible to not pick one up now and then while fishing for smallmouth. How many of us have "accidentally" caught walleye while casting jigs along rocky shorelines for smallmouth (or vice versa) at Starvation? The two species are attracted to similar structure, and are triggered by similar baits/techniques. So why are reports of walleye catches at Jordanelle completely non-existant?
Sure there are some walleye in there. We knew for a fact they were already in the river long before the dam was built. I can't believe anyone would be surprised by this latest "discovery". We can't blame the BB's for this one. But I seriously doubt there has been a walleye "explosion" as you say, or that they are responsible for chomping away whole year classes of perch and smallies. There is absolutely no evidence for a conclusion like that... yet.
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[reply]
[cool]Hey worm and bobber, please let us know about the results from the gill net study coming up next month. [/reply]
I will be on the boat with DWR and Richard Hepworth, an Central region biologist who has invited me to help with the gillnetting studies. I will be the one who will post the reports on it here next thursday May 5th. So you know, an fellow BFT'er, I will be directly involved...[  ]
I can't wait for next thursday!!!![cool]
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I have a big job interview that Thursday. I hope I can concentrate on my performance and not be thinking about you out on that survey. Be assured that Ill be checking for your post Thur night. Have fun!!
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Hey Paul,
Know that several of us will be very anxious to read your report as soon as you can post it.
Thanks,
PF
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IM AM SO HAPPY THAT SOME OF US GET THAT LOW WATER RESULTS IN MISSING BAIT FISH. ITS TO BAD THAT ALL THE BLAME GOES TO THE WALLEYES. WALLEYES ARE TUFF FISH AND CAN TAKE ALL THE BASHING THEY RECIEVE HERE AND ON OTHER BOARDS. SOONER OR LATER ALL THESE GUYS WILL SEE YUBA COME BACK AND WITH THE NEW DAM IT WILL SUSTAIN THE WATER IN THE FRONT END SO THAT ALL THE BAIT FISH WILL HAVE A HIGHER SURVIVLE RATE. NO MOORE BOOM OR BUST. THEN THE STATE MAY DECIDE THAT THIS WILL SERVE OTHER FISHERIES THE SAME WAY. DC WOULD BE GREAT IF THEY DID THE SAME THING. AT THE NORHT END FROM THE ISLAND TO THE WEST BANK CHEEPER TO. THEY COULD JUST BUILD A DIKE AND FLOOD GATE. THERE IS DEEP ENOUGH WATER ON THE WEST BANK TO ENSURE SURVIVLE IN WINTER AND THE WEEDS ON THE EAST TO SPAWN. FORAGE SUVIVLE INCREASE AND MOORE BANK ACSESS FOR ALL THE SHORE ANGLERS. THEY COULD ALSO RESTRICT THIS AREA FOR FISHERMEN ONLY. SETLING DOWN THE WARS IN SUMMER DUE TO JET SKIERS AND WATER SKEERES. CREATING A WIN WIN FOR FISH AND MAN.
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[size 1]"AND WITH THE NEW DAM IT WILL SUSTAIN THE WATER IN THE FRONT END SO THAT ALL THE BAIT FISH WILL HAVE A HIGHER SURVIVLE RATE. NO MOORE BOOM OR BUST."[/size]
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[size 1]Have a hard time reading your posts with your cap lock key on, but one has to admire the optimism of a fisherman. That said, I have a strong hunch that there are many boom and bust cycles still ahead for Yuba. Hopefully, the bust cycles aren't as frequent and that they don't last too long when they happen.[/size]
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