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[cool][#0000ff]Most of us who have fished Utah Lake for more than a few years have our own "true stories" of massive harvests of white bass. In the past they have been so numerous that they were considered a "go to" fish if you wanted some bait, some fillets or some action for the kids (or yourself). [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The several years of drought, combined with horrendous harvests of fish when they congregated for spawning or for warmth around springs, have seemingly taken a toll on the whities. They ain't available in any kind of quantity these days.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]All false modesty aside, I'm a pretty fair fisherman on Utah Lake. I have always enjoyed targeting white bass on light gear, or even catching them on heavier gear while casting for walleyes. They are fun to catch and they are great on the table. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Until recently, I have never had any trouble catching bazillions of the fiesty little buggers. I flattered myself that I was good enough to go out and whack some whenever I wished. I am now properly humbled and more than a bit concerned.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In "days of old", it was often possible to catch fish after fish, simply by dipping a jig of any kind...even without a plastic tail on it...into some of the big schools that formed in several spots around the lake. After several aggressive white bass expeditions this past year, I cannot say that I ever got more than about a dozen on any trip, and seldom scored more than a half dozen. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have also been concerned about the apparent absence of any "young of the year" whites. In most years they start pestering anglers by late summer and school up bigtime by fall. In mid October I caught a six inch white bass at Lincoln Beach. I caught one about the same size at LBH and those were the smallest ones I caught during the last 12 months. Where are the swarms of 4 inchers?[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Actually, I am hearing a lot of questions from both seasoned Utah Lake anglers and relative newbies. All are asking "Where are the white bass?" or "How do you catch some of those white bass I hear about?" The old timers are concerned. The rookies think it must be some kind of "snipe hunt" thing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]While I have not experienced it myself, I have reports of some large catches of white bass throughout the past year. The "happy harvesters", who keep all they catch, were at work off American Fork Harbor and also at the mouth of the little creek (Battle Creek) that comes into Utah Lake just north of Lindon Harbor. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The spawn has been poor during the low water years. Heavily harvesting the remaining spawning stock no doubt didn't help the white bass recovery much. But, what can you tell "subsistence" fishermen.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is other evidence of a white bass population decline. Walleye chasers have all witnessed the skinny condition of many of the larger walleyes. White bass are a big item on the menu for walleyes throughout the year. I caught some walleyes this year that were hardly more than a head and tail, connected by a thin band of skin, scales and fins.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I am optimistic that a couple more years of higher water, and greater flows in their spawning tributaries, will help the white bass come back. They are prolific, and can explode quickly when conditions are right.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Just wondering. Anybody out there know anything about the potential for getting a limit on white bass for awhile, to help the population? Right now their biggest nemesis is the horde of cooler (and truck bed) fillers who view the white bass as their personal ticket to a full freezer and even some commercial selling.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Never thought I would see such a once prevalent species fall into such a decline in numbers. Probably not of much concern to most Utah anglers, but I can guarantee that there are more than a few whitie lovers out there that share my concern.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Whimper, whimper, whine, whine.[/#0000ff]
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[cool]Very well stated, Pat. I have lived in Utah for nine years now, but have only been fishing Utah Lake for about two years. Even before I ever started fishing it, I had heard great reports of the white bass out there, but during the two years I have fished it, I have only caught a few, and I've heard reports of anglers complaining/noticing the lack of white bass out there compared to the way it used to be.
For whatever reason the DWR doesn't seem to give a rats behind about the whities, and I sure don't know why as it's a main food source for the bigger predators there (walleye, channel cats). You would think that even they know how bad the population has declined, but maybe they don't do gill net studies out there lately because of all of the budget cuts, etc. I would suggest sending your thoughts and concerns on this to Tom Pettingill (the head fisheries biologist) but I've heard that he is retiring soon (or already has). Perhaps you can send them to whoever is taking his place?[crazy] Here's a question: Were the white bass illegally introduced in there years ago, or did the DWR plant them? It just doesn't make sense to me that they have a "no limit" on them. I know that they are usually very plentiful, but something has to be done to combat these "subsistence fishermen" that have really ruined (along with the drought and carp) the white bass fishery out there. I grew up fishing a lake in Northern Nevada called Lahontan Reservoir (named after Ancient Lake Lahontan where the Lahontan Cutthroat found in Pyramid and Walker Lakes came from) and it is a warm water fishery with millions of white bass in it. Still, even back then when I was growing up there there was a 25 fish limit on the white bass to prevent people from overharvesting them.
I am VERY in favor of a limit being introduced for the white bass at Utah Lake. Things have gotten WAY out of hand out there for those hearty little fish.
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This dire situation was forecasted back in 2004:
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=162039;#162039"]Click here for the thread:[/url]
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[cool][#0000ff]Obviously, this is something that I have been thinking about a lot...all year. I have tried to remain optimistic, rationalizing that the fish patterns just change from time to time, and that maybe I needed some remedial white bass training. But, when so many other whitie lovers make the same observations and have the same concerns, I gotta believe that there is more to it than that.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of the off-the-wall observations I recently made to myself (us old guys talk to ourselves a lot) is that the white bass situation is not unlike what happened to New Orleans. I lived and worked in N'awlins for several months, and every time I looked at the levees and the low lying areas of the city I asked "What if a big storm busts the levees". I was assured that it couldn't happen, because it never had. Well, now it has.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Same thing with the white bass. Limits? Heck, they should have put a bounty on them for many years. They were a significant part of the lake's biomass. They became so overpopulated themselves that any white bass over 10 inches was a trophy. Today we are catching some 15 inch plus fish, but not many of them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The white bass were a legitimate DWR introduction. It would amaze you to review the list of species introduced into Utah Lake on an experimental basis over the years. Some might brand DWR as the worst offenders in "bucket biology". Bottom line is that the white bass found it to their liking and the population exploded.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Back in the 60's, Utah's troutaholics branded white bass along with yellow perch as trash fish. No spots, no slime, no good. As more out of state anglers moved into Utah, and as more Utah anglers were vaccinated against trout snobism, white bass became more popular. And, some minority communities took advantage of the apparently endless supply of white bass, with no limits, to fill their freezers and line their pockets by selling off their surplus.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]For many years, the prolific whities have held their own, even under constant and increasing pressure from both anglers and other predatory species, like walleyes and catfish. But...throw in some lean years of low water, poor spawning and recruitment, together with continued heavy harvest and whammo. There goes the population.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I am optimistic that the conditions are not unnoticed by fisheries biologists and that agencies are at least watching the situation. If they deem it worth taking action, they will. I did address the issue with a fisheries biologist earlier this year, while trying out the fishing out of Saratoga Springs Harbor. She admitted that they were aware of the apparent decline in numbers, but said that there were no plans to do anything about it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]She then proceeded to ask me a lot of questions about my knowledge of the June Sucker program, and whether I had any feelings about them, one way or another. I diplomatically answered the way I thought she would like me to respond. I only half jokingly suggested that I felt it was a big waste of money, time and energy to try to reestablish a worthless fish in a hostile environment. That wrinkled her brow, so I backed off.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]H-m-m-m-m-m-m. Maybe if we can promote the rumor that June Suckers need more white bass in the ecosystem in order to make a comeback....[/#0000ff]
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In the past couple of years I have tried several times to catch the "supposed" white bass in Utah Lake. Still to this day I havent caught one. After talking to alot of Utah Lake oldtimer and hearing the past success, I started blaming myself on not being able to catch a whitie. TD, that gives me some confidence that it isnt just my angling skills that is skunking me on those fish
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AFTER WATCHING TRUCK BEDS FULL BEING CAUGHT AND KEPT TO SELL IM NOT AT ALL SUPRIZED AND MOORE THAN A LITLE PISSED!!!! I WILL NOT KEEP ONE FOR A LONG TIME. NO MATER WHAT SIZE THE FISH IS EVEN IF ITS A RECORD IT DOESNT MATER IT GOES BACK!!!!
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In the early to mid 80's I spent too many hours according to my mom fishing for those little critters. She never turned down the filets but hated having to drive come pick us up or take us down to the lake day after day during the summer months. After years of not fishing the lake I thought I just must be in the wrong place when I tried to catch some last year. Years of drought had changed many of the places I fished as a kid. Hated to find out I wasn't in the wrong place but that the fish weren't there anymore. No answers to the main question but had a couple now that I have learned more this year except for one. Maybe all the tributaries should be closed longer to help more species of fish. If the white bass don't come back will the walleye crash like they do in other lakes? If the walleye population crashes would that allow the white bass to come back starting a boom bust cycle that I have read about at other lakes? I do think that a limit would be a good idea though. As for the june sucker, if it gets more water in the lake then let them try.
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IT MIGHT HURT A LITLE IF WHITES ARE NOT PRESANT TRUE THE EYES LOVE WHITES BUT THEY WILL EAT ANY MINNOW AND WITH THE AMOUNT OF CARP CHUBS AND CATS CRAPPIES PERCH AND BLUE GILLS IN THERE IT WONT HURT TO BAD.
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Yeah TD. It's pretty clear to me that if the whitey population crashes, the walleye are gonna eat every last endangered June Sucker left in their last natural habitat. I say the DWR places an emergency catch and release reg. on all whiteys under 10 inches with a bag limit of 5 over 10 " (or something like that) to save the poor June sucker from extinction[  ]
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Agreed ! As we discussed yesterday, I also think that the population of white bass has declined in recent years.
I have been enjoying Utah lake for over 25 years now and untill the last couple of years, I could reasonably expect to find a dozen or more in my catch - no matter what specific fish I would be after at the time. If I went for white bass in particular, I could expect a day of 3 or 4 dozen fish with most of them released to fight another day and enough in the creel to have a decent fish fry.
That has not been the case recently though. I have been down there at least 2 dozen times this year and I doubt that I have brought home 2 dozen white bass in that time. Granted, I have not targeted them specifically this year, but regardless, I should have found more of them on my line while fishing that many times on the lake. Also, some of the places that I did fish during that time, usually have a better white bass presence - they should have been there, but, were not.
I would be in favor of creel limits on White Bass as well. Also, as a measure to protect this valuable species of the fishery, I think it might be appropriate on Utah Lake for the DWR to enforce a temporary moratorium on possession of White Bass during their spawn period.
As you also mentioned, I have noticed the average walleye I've caught being less robust than in past years. A larger water year could have some impact, but I have been in Utah for other big water years and the fishing was not like it has been this season. The places that traditionally were good during high water, have not produced as I would have expected.
Another telling thing; through my experience on various places at Utah Lake this year while fishing for channel catfish, is that white bass did not work as a bait as effectively as it has in the years before. That used to be one of my favorite cut baits down there. For me, this year, carp and chub meat has been far more productive.
As with the walleyes, I have also noticed a decline in the overall size of the channel cats that I have caught. I've only landed a few larger ones and on average, they have not been nearly as big.
Maybe there has been a large piece of the food chain that is being or has been compromised and the top predators are showing the effects. Perhaps, white bass is becoming a less important forage now.
It would seem to me, that those lobbists for the June Sucker should also be concerned by this. White bass would not be the main predator of the June Sucker. Furthermore, The several larger species of fish that were using the small white bass as their main food source, would now have to focus their attention on the population of right sized forage that is present - the June Sucker. Because as many anglers, biologists and even environmentalists know, after just a few months, the other main forage, the Carp, has grown too large for many of the predators to eat. After which, the average sized or larger predators in the lake have few options as far as food choices go. I doubt that there are any Channel Cats, Largemouth Bass, and Walleyes in Utah Lake that know that the June Sucker is on any endangered species list, and most likely, wouldn't care if they did. The June Sucker is just a "right-sized-happy-meal" to a hungry, growing or just plain surviving individual of one of those predatory species.
The survial of the White Bass could be a major part of the survival of the entire fishery. It could also be a key factor in the survival of the very object of an expensive endangered species program, which might instead, just turn into a very costly and ineffective predatory fish feeding program.
How many June Suckers does it take to feed a hungry 5 pound Channel Cat, Largemouth Bass or Walleye until the next year's batch of Carp minnows is available ?
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I think that the perch in Rockport and Jordanelle and Echo and Deer creek all are going to show that the perch in them are in trouble.
But like it has been said before IF ITS NOT A TROUT ITS A TRASH FISH has got to be changed.
We have many trout hatchures, but not one for (the warm water fish) and if you talk to the DWR .....Well you just seem to get lip serves and they(the DWR) just wants to weight and see or get reed of the other fish (waleye) or sum other fish... I'm not sure what to do but if the white bass and the perch are in trouble, that the DWR could make it catch and release for a year to give them a chance to spoon.
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I've fished Utah lake for the past couple of while I have not had a lot of luck on Walleye's and have caught no white bass. Catfish has been the main catch but I have targeted the whites with no luck, I heard the stories of the truck loads of fish being caught but have never seen so I cannot comment on that, I just don't understand if they can put a limit on Perch for Jordanelle at 50 fish why can't they do the same on Utah lake for the whites this just makes sense.
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IM GLAD MANY OF YOU NEVER SAW WHAT UTWALLEYE AND MYSELF WITNEST MANY TIMES AT THE WARM SPRINGS. AND I ALSO HOPE YOU NEVER DO!!! IT WAS A SAD DAY EVERY TIME WE SAW IT HAPPEN. IT MAKES ME SICK TO THINK SOME GUYS PUT CASH IN THER BANK ACCOUNTS FROM THE DEATH OF ALL THOSE FISH. SOME DAYS THESE 3 GUYS WOULD FILL THAT TOYOTA LONG BED TWICE IN A DAY PILED HIGH. AND I HERD THEM SAY THEY SELL A 5 GALLON BUCKET FULL FOR 25 DALLORS TO THEIR FREINDS AND FAMILYS. IS THAT CRAP OR AM I JUST CARRING TO MUTCH????
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Heeeeeeeeyyyyy Tooooooooobiedooooooooombie,
Long time no see... rather long time no write... Lol! Been busy with my new house and all that crapola that goes with the big move.
I too have noticed the declinization of mass civilization of whities.
Correlation? Geneva Steel went out of business, so they went out of business... Perhaps those whites and walleyes got numerous and big because of the fall-out from Geneva? LMAO... seriously, just a thought to pound our chest with...
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Yes, I agree, it might hurt a little at first, but, a few of those species you mentioned are also not present in the numbers that they have been in the past. At least to my experience of not encountering them this year as often I think I should have. I haven't seen the good numbers of Crappie, Bluegills, or even Bullheads that would have been present in years past.
So, yes again, the Walleyes will eat anything they can, as will the other larger predators - even the smaller members of their own species. With this natural over harvest of the smaller fish by the large predators every species in the lake becomes thinned out as the dominant main forage declines. Because of the limited suitable natural habitat that Utah Lake has, some of the species won't be able to maintain a viable reproductive population. It can easily chain react until there is a crash of almost all of species within the environment.
Recently, in Utah Lake, the only thing I have seen more of is Carp. Carp by the way, is one of my favorite fish to target, and even being so, I don't want to see Utah Lake as only a Carp and Sucker fishery.
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Even though i had a lot of sucess for WB this year i have heard the comments from other shore fisher people about the lack of WB.Also the eyes i have caught have been somewhat skinny compared to the previous years harvest.I thought the Dwr wanted the WB out of utah lake.I guess if they wont put a limit on how many WB you could keep then for sure the eyes will be definitly feed on the chubs they want so badly to return to the lake.
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[font "Impact"][#ff4040][size 3]Although I had decent success for the whities this year, they are definitely not as abundant as years past. I had trouble catching 10 in one outing, and whenever I did it was hard work for sure. All I know is that if the whities are gone then the walleye for sure will eat those precious little suckers! All the walleyes this year that I caught were definitely scrawny......must have had something to do with the suckers eating up all the whities or something??? Hopefully the whities make a comeback!!![/size][/#ff4040][/font]
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey I-Paul, good to hear from you. Glad you got your house okay. Look forward to seeing you on the waters more...when they turn liquid again. As I recall, you are not much of a "driller and chiller".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]So you wanna connect the demise of Geneva with the decline in white bass, huh? Interesting theory. Maybe the fish need more iron and chemicals in their water? Nah. They have done fine during many of the years since Big G shut down. I know you were just funnin'.[/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey Dawg...and C-Eyes too. You guys bring up good points. Walleyes generally rely on having lots of young tasty white bass to sustain them through the "post-carplet" days, after the young carp grow too large for "average" sized walleyes to eat. Young of the year whites are ideal, at only 3" to 5" in size, and tend to travel in schools where they are easy to ambush whenever hunger pangs strike the walleyes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In years of plenty, there are so many white bass young that it is good to have predation to keep the population in check. But, when the ecology gets out of whack, through drought, overharvest, etc., then the "normal" predation quickly eliminates more than the white bass population needs to sustain itself. CRASH.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Walleyes are nothing but teeth and stomachs, with little selectivity when it comes to grocery shopping. In some lakes where there is a large population of a specific forage species (shiners, shad, chubs, perch or white bass) they may "pattern" on that species and become less prone to chase other species. But, "when they are not with the ones they love, they love the ones they're with" (sorry).[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Over the years, many of the walleye I have kept have had a variety of species in their innards. But, white bass has usually been the predominant (identifiable) fodder in their digestive system. My taxidermist told me that the 12# fattie I had resin cast mounted had three whities in its gut, along with lots of internal body fat. Kinda told me something. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I neither caught or kept many larger fat walleyes this past year. One that I did keep, from around the bubbleup, had a pretty good sized mudcat (bullhead) in its stomach (see attached pic). I suspect that many more "mudders" met their demise this year in the jaws of 'eyes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fishhound and other BFTers who participate in our little kitty flotillas have all commented on the noticeable decline in the percentage of muddies taken this past year. In years past, it was sometimes difficult to get through the little guys to have a chance to catch a channel cat. This last year, there were more than a few catfish excursions that saw only one or two mud cats munch. And, there were several times when we openly commented on the fact that we did not catch even one.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I gotta admit that I am not nearly as concerned about an apparent decline in the mudder population as I am about the whities. But, it may be possible that the two are connected...at the primary predator (walleye) level.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]And, while we are on the subject, there has also been a noticeable drop in both bluegill and crappie catches. True, they still show up in their traditional spring and fall hangouts, but not nearly in the numbers as in years before. And, there were very few taken during the summer months that I have heard about.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]So, it would seem that many of us have noticed the little hints from Mama Nature that there has been a change in "the force". It may not be pretty, but ultimately, "nature will find a way". There may continue to be dieoffs and changes in the populations, but you gotta know that things will stabilize at some level, whether it is one we agree with or not. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The lake has gone through worse conditions in the past and will doubtless go through other cycles in the future. As humans, we tend to resist change...unless it is something we WANT to change for our own benefit. In this particular situation, it is probably not within our power (and budget) to effect any changes beyond what the natural processes have in mind for Utah Lake. Sad but true.[/#0000ff]
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Has anyone besides me ever seen the professional carp seiners bring in a haul of carp? They are required to throw back all gamefish...Except white bass. I have witnessed wheelbarrows of whities harvested by them.
Regarding baby whities. In October they were so thick in LBH that if you had a small ice jig and a bobber you couldn't keep them off your line. I personally caught over 500 in a couple days, and saw another 1000 caught by other anglers. I did keep a few for walleye bait next spring. They are available for sale for $5 per dozen. Just kidding! I asked a bass fisherman what he saw on his finder and he said his screen was covered with them all over the harbor. There were areas where they were boiling. So maybe there is hope. I didn't post at the time because I didn't want to see any toyota longbeds making their hauls.
Slayer
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