Carp Question for TD

[zonker]

This question is for TD, but anyone else can chime in.

In your pics from time to time I've notice that you catch carp fairly well on jigs. (Big jig hanging from blubber lips.) Can you explain your technique? I've found fishing blind for carp with flies is a low percentage game - so much so that it's hardly worth it. Stalking and sight fishing in the shallows is much better. However, you can only do so much of that in a small lake and the fish wise up to you. They're much spookier than trout/bass in the places I fish. I read an article last year about a guy who does well on carp with jigs/plastics, thumping them along the bottom. I'm thinking that this could be easily adapted to the flyrod with leadhead patterns like the Clouser, allowing some "blind" fishing possibilities. Can you enlighten me on your experience? Thanks.

z~
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Good question. Lotsa answers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been catching carp on flies and jigs...both accidently and on purpose...for as long as I have been fishing. That goes back to the days of the stone fishing rods and braided mastodon hair for line. I have also read a lot about them and compared notes with other anglers who open-mindedly pursue those rascals. I have developed some insight and opinions (naturally).[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]First, I have observed that most species suffer from unfounded rumors, hearsay and downright stupidity on the part of anglers. A lot of fisherfolk THINK they know a lot of things about which they don't gots a clue. Some of this is based upon one time freak happenstance. Some is merely passing on the same kind of info they get from other clueless goobers. And, there are a lot of things proposed and assumed about carp that people REALLY believe.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of the most common misconceptions is that carp are strictly bottom feeders or strictly vegetarian. Not so on both counts. Anyone who observes carp under "natural" conditions will see them cruising near the surface or at least above the bottom most of the time. They root in the bottom at times, both to obtain roots and aquatic vegetation, but also to find worms, leeches and other invertebrates upon which they regularly feed.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Carp have excellent vision. That is one of the reasons they can be difficult to stalk in clear water. In the clean waters of many lakes and rivers, carp become "sight feeders", and actively look for bugs, worms, crawdads and even live minnows. I have witnessed them chasing and feeding on live food on numerous occasions. And, even if the water is murky, carp can find and capture live food. Like many fish, they have sensitive lateral lines and their barbels are receptors for minute traces of edible grub in the surrounding water. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]All of that being said, it is not surprising that carp will take flies and lures. There are many trout patterns that make a "good enough" representation for the sometimes finicky carp, for the food items they are used to finding and feeding upon. Similarly, if they are used to dining on meaty items, they will hit spinners, spoons and minnow imitating hardbaits. Carp that feed on crawdads jump all over diving crankbaits and jigs bounced along the bottom. The funny thing is that you often have to make a better and more realistic presentation to fool carp than you do to get a bass to whack your lure.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]The key thing for flies and jigs seems to be first to put your offering well in front of the fish, so that you do not spook them with the cast. Let them settle to the bottom...where the carp are usually looking for their food. Then, when the carp is close enough to see the movement, bring the fly or jig up off the bottom with a lift or twitch. Often that is enough to get the fish to move to your offering and slurp it in.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]That is where it becomes difficult if you are not sight fishing. Of all the carp you have taken, I would bet that most of them were hooked because you saw them take it rather than feeling them. And, that is why the results go down when you are "blind casting" into deeper waters or in waters with a bit of "color". You will get more takes than you ever know and will hook nothing if you feel nothing. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Carp can take in a fly and spit it out before you even know they are there. Only rarely will they keep the fly in their mouths, turn away and move off with it...creating a tug.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]When I fish jigs, I become a "Jedi Knight". I use the "force" to keep me in tune with what is going on at the other end of my line. I refer to this as "touch fishing". I love it when a fish smacks my jig and hauls my rod tip down, but the truth of the matter is that many fish of many species do not hammer a lure. Like the carp (and bass, etc.), they often just flare their gills, open their mouths and vacuum the light jig or fly into their mouths while remaining stationary in the water. An angler not in tune with how his offering feels...without interference...will completely miss those takes. They happen and they are over without the fishermen even knowing that they missed an opportunity.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I developed a philosophy long ago that "Hooksets are free". Whenever I am retrieving a fly, jig or lure, I watch the line and the rodtip while concentrating on the feel while retrieving. Whenever there is the slightest change in "the force", I either raise the rod slightly to detect resistance...or I snap my wrist for a preliminary hookset. If I stick something besides "real estate", I double set the hook and it's game on.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It would be fair to say that most of the carp I hook...fair or foul...are hooked accidentally. I am usually fishing for other species, in carp country. But, if I am using something that looks edible, and I am fishing it in an acceptable manner, I am not surprixed when a light tick on the end of my line becomes a reel screamer wearing big scales.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of the techniques I use for fishing carp on a fly, when fishing "blind", is the same as the one I use for bluegills under similar conditions. Bluegills are also notorious for swimming up behind a fly, sipping it in and spitting it out without creating much of a commotion. My "trick" is to point the rod directly at the fly while retrieving. I simultaneously watch the line and hold it constantly with a finely tuned forefinger while stripping. ANYTHING that changes is my signal to pull straight back a few inches with my stripping hand. If I feel the desired resistance I simultaneously pull back more and raise the rod tip to complete the hookset. If there is no fish when I do the "test tug" I just pause a few seconds and resume the strip. No harm no foul.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I believe that some weighted bead head bugs would do a good job of getting deep and keeping more "feel" on the end of your line. Work them like active numphs or small crawdads and they should get some attention. You might also try making some up in bright colors. I have found that chartreuse is especially appealing to carp. I once taok a 25 pound mirror carp on a size 10 chartreuse fly being fished on 4# tippet for crappies. Gave me and my six weight rod all the action we could stand.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Wow. That is a lot of rhetoric about a nasty old fish that many people don't think is worth the effort.[/#0000ff]
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[zonker]

Great response. And those guys who think that this fish just isn't worth it, well, let 'em keep thinking that way because there will be more fish for me. Heh Heh. I don't intend to eat them. Just catch them.

Your observations confirm many of my own. When I started intentionally fishing for these guys I figured it would be easy for someone who has been catching trout and bass for a long time. How difficult could it be to catch a trash fish? Well, after getting thoroughly spanked on 6 or 7 trips when I could see many fish in front of me, I had to revise my expectations and punt from my own two yard line. These fish are far spookier than anything else I've ever fished for. Heron-like stalking, pinpoint casting, Jedi reactions, and the ability to endure blank periods and refusals are standard equipment so far in my experience. I'm even thinking that slamming the car door in the parking lot or sneezing at the water's edge are no-no's. I don't want to over complicate it but I'm finding it more complicated that I anticipated.

The reason for my question was to find out if you had discovered a short-cut with the jigs. Apparently not though I'll pursue it further and re-read your post.

This thing is both frustrating and fascinating at the same time. Frustrating when I think I have it figured out and get blanked and fascinating in that when I do everything right and the planets align, I get to enjoy a great ride.

Much of my early problems in catching them last year was that I was fishing in very murky/muddy water. Flyfishing is a visual method. If visibility is limited, results are, too. The other hard part was accessibility. Stalking in the shallows requires room for a backcast or some very artful flipping. Roll casts just send them fading off into deep water. Many places have so many trees and bushes around that you have to sacrifice flies just to get in front of a fish. I had high hopes that tubing would help since it is a stealthy approach, but alas, it seems they're afraid of the tube and the visual angle is greatly reduced when you're low to the water. I haven't given up the idea. I'll be trying again in an area that isn't so closed in as my favorite small lake that is crawling with carp. Spooked carp tend to spook carp, if you know what I mean.

[cool]Or, I may have to give up in defeat and go back to those sickly little five pound trout and bass. <Sigh> Naw!

If you have any additional insight, please pass it along. I can learn. And thanks for your thoughtful and helpful post.

z~
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I DO have a couple of other observations I might drop on you. First, when carp are in full spawn, you might as well save your time in fishing for them...unless you just want to snag one for bait. When they are in "whoopie mode" they are not thinking about food and do not even take natural baits.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Second, like many species, the "post spawn" period can be great to fish them with flies and lures. After they dump their buckets and their innards reconfigure to "normal" status they go on the feed. That's a brief period when they actually do whack a fly or lure with a bit of gusto.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One of my more memorable fishing experiences was in late May one year, on Willard Bay Reservoir here in Utah. I had returned to shore after nonstop catching on crappies, happy with the day's fishing. While shucking out of my waders and putting my tube in the car I noticed some activity in the shallow bay nearby. I walked over closer and found that there were a bajillion carp basking in the warmth of the shallows and many seemed to be "tailing"...characteristic of fish working the bottom for food.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I hustled back to the car and grabbed one of my crappie rods...a light action rod with 4# line and rigged with a little reddish colored plastic jig. I flipped a short cast out into the carp convention and my little jig barely touched down in the shallow water before being attacked. I felt a sharp whack and set the hook. The four pound attackor immediately did his best imitation of a bonefish, streaking across the flats. It was funny to see the other carp go airborne as the one I hooked crashed into them and scared the stuff out of them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The rest of the story. I had not planned to spend any time fishing for carp and was fishing in cutoffs, tennies and no shirt. Midday in May the sun in powerful and I got a powerful sunburn as I just kept on catching one "golden bone" after another. It was unbelievable.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I came back a few days later and the magic was gone. The fish had moved back out into the open lake.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The moral of the story is that if you can find feeding carp, you are in for a treat. When they are in a neutral, inactive or just plain finicky carp mode, you really gotta work for them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As I previously stated, I seldom (if ever) deliberately target carp with jigs. But, there are times when I see them clustered on top, on calm low light mornings, and I can't resist swimming a jig through them to see if I can get a reaction. Sometimes the reaction is an explosion of fleeing fish. On other occasions one of them will deliberately munch the intruding lure and I go bendo. Then I look around to make sure that nobody I know catches me playing with a carp. [/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]My name is TubeDude and I am a carpoholic. I don't wanna be cured. I just wanna come to these meetings and talk about it.[/#0000ff]
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[Dusty_T]

"Then I look around to make sure that nobody I know catches me playing with a carp. "

[sly] Having a blast reading these stories on a Monday morning!
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[flygoddess]

[black][size 4]Oh sure, I just got med's for my cold, Now I need a cure for my Carpendency....Great....just great![unsure][/size][/black]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]There is no cure...only treatment for the symptoms. Unfortunately, the treatments (fishing) only tend to make the condition worse.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If things get too bad, call Dr. Cuervo. [/#0000ff]
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[zonker]

[cool]You may be safe, FG. The incubation period for the carp disease is the time between catching the first really nice carp and the time that the first trout or bass fisherman singles you out as the butt of his jokes. If that rolls off your back, then you know you have the disease and you're fully over on the dark side. If you sputter or return to hating carp and not fishing for them for fear of what others say, then the illness didn't "take." I'll be watching to see if you're a real convert or just a drive by, one time carper.

z~
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[zonker]

Good words, TD. Thanks for taking the extra time. The post-spawn is something I hadn't considered. Makes good sense.

z~
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