Start being grateful for all we have as a country.

[BEARCLAW]

By: Craig R. Smith
The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?
The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the president. In essence 2/3s of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change.
So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What we are so unhappy about?''
Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter? Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job? Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?
Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state? Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter? I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough. Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.
Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus saving you, your family and your belongings. Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes , an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss. This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of teenagers own cell phones and computers.
How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.
Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have , and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.
I know, I know. What about the President who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The President who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Is this the same President who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession? Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks?
The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me? Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad?
Think about it -- are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the "Media" told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.
Make no mistake about it. The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go.
They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an ''other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.
So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans? Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by "justifying" them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way -- Insane!
Stop buying the negativism you are fed everyday by the media. Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is exponentially more good than bad.
We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative.
"With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, "Are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?"
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[lunkerhunter2]

Wow, i am impressed. Good read.
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[davetclown]

There sure are a lot of issues in his collage,

How often has the weather man said it raining out, and you step out side and there is not a single cloud in the sky.

I agree with some of what he says and not so much on the rest...

When it comes to polls, anit nobody asked me squat.

We as a nation fought greatly for what we have, yet we have left behind many of our nations' disabled, poor, uneducated to live on the streets, in falling down housing, crime filled streets.

When one becomes content and grateful for what we have, we become the beggar on the street in an old Charles Dickens book when a poor orphan is tossed a crumb of bread and is ecstatic. And when some poor bloke ask for a little more gruel it becomes a federal offence....

So I say be Proud for What we have earned, and never take it for granted. For the moment you do, some one will be there to filch anything they can take. This includes any rights and freedoms you so now enjoy...

As for the volunteers over there, Yes I am grateful for them, yet I feel they are going to get the shaft like the men and women who came back from nam with dishonorable discharges. For the same reason for dishonorable discharged vets, keeping the budget down these volunteers will not be receiving full military severances packages for serving in action for the US military,

My point is, there are the believers, and there are those who feed upon the believers....

Even the tailbone seeks believers. So don’t be naive believers, For Gods sake, take the time to educate your self on what is happening and question everything. If you want to be fed by the golden spoon then be ready to be lead to the slaughter...

With out a doubt emotionalism sells…. Just ask Hitler

When it comes to matters prescribed by the media, take it with a grain of salt. Remember Hitler was a master of propaganda and media control. Before any one acts or reacts, take the time to investigate your self and ask your self "who, what, when, where, why"

So if a rag or radio or tv station says some one is leading at the polls, Look at that candidates past elections to see if any one from that station has made political contributions to that candidate.

As for being grateful for what we have, that is pure bunk in my opinion, we should be both proud and ashamed for what we have.

In conclusion, I feel the writer is as guilty of sensationalism as any media station.

I never dreamed any one would present a Pacifistic point of view

Good find, Thanks for the share...
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[BEARCLAW]

[]Maybe you missed his point Dave. Our worst neighborhoods are no comparison for what has and is going on in Darfur. Chew on that for awhile.
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[davetclown]

You havent met my neighbors [shocked]

My neighbors are the same type of people causing the destabilization in Darfur.

True my neighbors are not using force of arms; they use the law, "abuse you then call the law on you so you cant retaliate any shape or form"

As I said before, it doesn’t matter if it is your neighbor across the street, or some militant who got kicked out of his country and wants a country of his own to wage war out of... It’s all the same.

Being caught in the middle of war games is no fun; I will give you that....

What is going on in Darfur is a matter of greed and lust of power... Just on a much grander scale than what is going on in my neighborhood... The crime against humanity is the same weather you use missiles or a pile of dirt to flood out your neighbor’s home...
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[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]North American Indians went though that right here on this country. They are not even considered to be human beings; they are property of the United States federal government under the department of agriculture. Chew on that…. Just recently did the Indians get the right to vote, “1975” almost 500 years after Columbus set foot in Cuba.[/size][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]There is nothing going on in the world today that has not gone on in this country. Looks like the double standard still rules. Do as I say, not as I do… How on earth are we supposed to clean up some one else’s problems when we cant take care of our own?[/size][/font]
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So yes maybe I did miss the point, I did not realize that the entire piece of literature was a document of protest about what was going on in Darfur, My heart bleeds for the tribes there, they will become the ultimate looser in this confrontations for the lust of power and greed just as the natives of North America did and are still here.
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[BEARCLAW]

[cool]Earth to dave, come in Dave! We're talking about the way we Americans under-appreciate how good we have it TODAY! The Indians are also American Citizens and are given the choice of any life they wish. Why do so many foreigners want to come to this country if our neighborhoods are so much worse than their own? Try finding a villiage / neighborhood in this country where the citizens have to go to the bathroom in 12 inch ditch that runs down the middle of their street. Not to mention the human suffering. Yes, we as Americans have it pretty Damn good I'd say...[]
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[Wyobraz]

[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Good stuff! Too bad more people didn't realize how good we do have it.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Later,[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[davetclown]

Earth to Chad,
[ul] [li]for the rich there is no better country than america,[/li] [li]for the poor this country is no better than any other and actualy falls behind in living and health standards.[/li] [li]Would I leave this country to go suffer in another country, no, there is more than enough suffering right here to go around...[/li][/ul]
Dont tell some one how good thay have it untill you have walked in thier shoes... Hopefuly you wont have to walk in my nephews shoes, He's Dead at the age of 18 years 2 weeks. fresh out of high school, no job, no insurance, walked in to the hospitol with an acute apendicides sent home because he could not afford it, and died 3 days later. The 3rd anivercery of his death will be this sunday.

WE should expect better than this. NO we should demand better than this..

There is no reason for it.

This country offers and promices a lot, but quite often fails to deliver.

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Heres a little read for ya. all about poverty for american indians.

the amazing part about this read is, it mirrors the degridated areas of our cities all across america.

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[font "Arial"]PART I. NATIVE INDIANS: MAJORITY OF POOR

Chapter I. Reasons For Indian Poverty

The last census, in 1990, defines poverty as an annual income of less than $6.300 for an individual or less than $12.674 for a family of four. The average total U.S. poverty rate is 13.1% .

While they have made noticeable progress, Native Indians are still underprivileged . According to Ken Robbins, president of the National Center for American Indian Enterprise Development, "Indian people, by nearly all the socioeconomic indicators, are still at the bottom of" the nation's economy (Shannon County Oglala Sioux Reservation in South Dakota is ranked lowest in the U.S ). Nearly one in three Indians lives in poverty, the highest rate of any ethnic group in America . The poverty rate is 23.7 % for Indian families, as compared with 10.3 % nationally . The American Indian median income would need to nearly double to be in parity with the U.S. population .

1. Indians Living On Reservations

1.1. Reservations Installed In Remote Areas

It is noticeable that the poorest tribes are usually the biggest ones and the ones installed in remote and difficult areas . This localization prevents them to develop. Navajo people, for example, could develop tourism. They possess on their reservation some of the most spectacular scenery in all North America. Yet few visitors come to see it .

Surprisingly, these tribes are also the ones that have the more natural resources. But still, they are the poorest. The Crows, for example, whose 2.3 m-acre reservation in Southern Montana sits on a treasure-trove of natural resources, including an estimated $ 26 billion coal, is potentially one of the wealthiest native tribes in the world. But the Crows are poor, with 72 % unemployment .

1.2. Reservations Facing Economical Obstacles

Some traditional activities are put in danger, like fishing industry on which, for example, Red Cliff Indian Reservation depends . For this tribe, commercial fishing represents the second-largest source of unsubsidized employment on the reservation (after the casino), with other 100 tribal members dependant on fishing to their subsistence. Of those, about 30 have made substantial investments in large boats. But a 10-year management plan put forth by the state that reduces quotas squeezes out some fishermen. It will get to the point that they will not be able to survive. Another example is the Miccosukees Reservation . Until 1962, they existed to some extend in isolation and were "self-sufficient", living off the land. Rather abruptly, they found themselves thrust into the rush of the 20th century. Their traditional way of living was jeopardized as the game and fish they needed to sustain them became scarcer. According to some Miccosukee leaders, this resource depletion stemmed from the mass movement of non-Indian settlers from the North. At the same time, the development of roads in the Everglades slowed the reproduction of game and fish, as did the construction of canals to dry out some of the land for the southern Florida development purposes.

Some reservations have under-developed physical infrastructures . Others, like Red Cliff Reservation (15.000 acres) do not have enough land to develop any sort of industrial or manufacturing plant.

Another obstacle to economical improvement is the land policy . For example, most of the Navajo land is held in trust by the tribe. Individuals do not own it, so mortgages are hard to secure. Bankers are loath to advance money against land or buildings because they find it next to
impossible to acquire the collateral if the borrower defaults. This also explains why so many American Indians live in mobile homes bankers can repossess them.

Indians spend their money out of the reservation . Studies done by the First Nations Development Institute have shown that many communities on the borders of Indian reservations owe their economic success in significant part to the spending of reservation members. Red Cliff reservation's disposable income is spent in nearby town Bayfield, for groceries, clothing, laundry and other services. Very few of Red Cliff's dollars are "turned over" on the reservation.

1.3. The Government's Policies
The Government has some responsibilities regarding poverty of Native Indians. In spite of some cuts by the Congress in the programs for Native Indians, according to the Economist , the trouble is not lack of spending. Yet overall spending on Indians, including sources other than the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) (see Annex 2 page 49), a unit of the U.S. Department of the Interior, has doubled from $3 billion in 1985 to $6 billion in 1995. But the problem is that the money from Washington also encourages Indian tribes, which rank as sovereign nations,


to rely too heavily on the federal government. Most reservation economies are more dependent on welfare than employment as a source of income . Many reservation residents receive support in the form of AFDC (Aid to Family with Dependant Children); they also receive support in the form of food stamps, the FDPIR (the Food Distribution program on Indian Reservations) and the BIA's general assistance program. These social and financial aids prevent Native Indians to make efforts to be self-sufficient.

2. Indians Living Off Reservations

Until comparatively recently, the American Indian population has been principally concentrated on reservations . In the 1950s, a major move by the federal government to encourage relocation off the reservations was initiated for the presumed economic benefits of employment available elsewhere . In 1950, 13.4 % of enumerated Native Indians lived in urban areas, but by 1990, the proportion had risen to 53 % (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1993 ).

The towns in which they are more numerous are located mostly in the west: Los Angeles (24.000), Tulsa (16.000), Oklahoma City (13.000), San Francisco (12.000) and Phoenix (11.000) .

The difficulties of socialization are even more obvious out of the reservations. In American Indian society, your standing is based on how much you give away. In this society, values are based on how big your house is, your bank account and what kind of car you drive.
s
In towns, Native Indians have difficulties to find jobs. Because of their lack of education, the jobs they find are usually unskilled and badly paid.

Chapter II. Factors Of Poverty

1. Unemployment

Unemployment rate of Native Indian people is extremely high, which is very contrasting in this country close to full-employment.

A few figures according to the last statistics:

Native Indian unemployment rose from 27 % in 1969 to 40 % in 1989 .

In 1993, unemployment on the reservations, where about half of all Indians still lived, averaged about 35 % which is ten times the national average .

In 1998, reservation unemployment rates average 45 % and can be as high as 80 % of the total labor force on reservations .

2. Low Earnings

In 1990, more than half of all Native Indians had incomes below the poverty line (U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, 1991). The average household income is $20.025 as compared with $30.056 nationally.

In 1991, of those Indians who have jobs, only 28% earn more than $7.000 a year, according to the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

In 1996, 22 % of Indian households on reservations have incomes of less than $5.000 per year and only 8 % have incomes greater than $35.000 (compared to an 18% U.S. average) .

60% of working Native Indians are employed by tribal or federal government. They have a median income of $20.000 a year which is $10.000 less than the national figure .

In 1998, on the largest reservations, average per capita income ranges from $3.113 to 4.718.

These data bring important points:

- Native Americans have a considerable way to go before their overall economic status is on a par with the general population,

- Where reservation labor participation rates are viewed in conjunction with poverty rates, they suggest structural problems such as low paying jobs, seasonal work, part-time work, etc.
- Disparity in economic performance across reservations contributes substantially to poorer overall statistics.









3. Bad Accommodation

40% of Indians live in housing that, according to a Senate report, is "overcrowded or physically deficient" . One of every four Indian homes has no phone. One of every 20 homes has no plumbing, toilets or sinks . On Montana reservations, for example, one-third of the housing stock is tagged substandard by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Many houses are dilapidated beyond repair. Parents often share cramped quarters with children, grandchildren, aunts, and uncles. This overcrowding seems to increase violence, sexual abuse, and alcoholism, according to a 1995 report by the UM School of Journalism .

4. High Rate Of Birth

Like in a third world country, the birth rate is high among Native Indian population. We can wonder if this is due to ignorance of family planning and women's lack of reproductive choice or to a more widespread phenomenon, affecting both men and women, which reflects the human need for identity and meaning .

It is to be noticed that most of the time, infants are born with a low birth weight, compared to the general population, and infant death rates are very high too .







5. Physical And Mental Health

5.1. Diseases

Health care for Native Indians is the poorest in the country. They have a very high rate of illness. They are especially vulnerable concerning mental health problems, communication disorders , depression, cirrhosis, liver disease, diabetes and cancer which is the second leading cause of death among American Indian women and the third leading cause among American Indian men. While cancer deaths between 1973 and 1990 increased 4% in the general population, they increased 10% among American Indians who have the poorest cancer rates of any racial group in the U.S.

5.2. Alcoholism, Drug And Substance Abuse

Alcoholism is prevalent among Native Indians. For example, among Californian Indians, it is seven times worse than nationally. Likewise, a lot of them are inclined to drug and substance abuse .

5.3. Suicides

Reservation Indians have a suicide rate more than twice that of all other nonwhites. Among Californian Indians, suicide has double the national average .





5.4. Mortality Rate

Indian mortality rates are considerably higher than the U.S. average. The life expectancy of American Indians is 47 years, contrasted with the American average of 78.

5.5. Social Problems

5.5.1. Family Violence

In Native Indian society, broken families, violence at home, spousal and child abuse are more common than in other minorities .

5.5.2. Crimes And Delinquency

Crime rate is very high too. According to Montana Business Quarterly, "Virtually every Native Indian has been incarcerated or has a close relative who has been". All these social evils are connected. A 1996 fellow-up by the UM Journalism school reported that 90% of crimes on the Blackfeet reservation are related to alcohol .

6. Lack Of Education

6.1. The Reasons Of Low Literacy Rate

It is very difficult for Native Indian children to get education. The vast majority of American Indians never set a foot on a college campus and many who do end up dropping out. A 1995 sampling of students shows that fewer than half of American Indians enrolled at public universities come back the following year. Another example: while American Indians make-up about 8% of the South Dakota population, they represent just 2% of students at public university. In South Dakota again, fewer than 7% of American Indians earn a four-year degree, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That's far fewer than any other minority group .

6.1.1. Financial Reason

The reservations grim economics account for much of the lagging American Indian participation in higher education. With staggering unemployment and low wages, few reservations families can afford college degrees. Tribes offer some financial aid to student but do not cover many college costs.

6.1.2. Problem Of Adaptability

Those who do journey to a college campus often discover a landscape littered with cultural hurdles. Universities are starkly different from reservations, and for many Indians, the change proves too much. On the reservation they are isolated and they are in the majority. But they come into higher education as a small percentage of the population and it is a culture shock.

6.1.3. Memories Of The Past

According to Eldon Lawrence, president of Sisseton-Wahpeton Community College, "Indian attitudes towards education, marred by a tyrannical past, have also hindered their progress in academics". "Education historically was used as a weapon to kill our culture", he says. "Non-Indian education educates us away from our culture, it assimilates us. Indians don't want that.

Only recently have Indians begun to see education as a tool for taking charge of their future, but many still are wary" (see "The Indian Reorganization Act" page 46).




6.2. Attempts To Improve Native Indians Education

Both educators and tribes have begun efforts to boost Indian enrollment in higher education. They have created tribal colleges which help ease Indian students into states universities and the results are positive.

Indian Studies departments on state campuses also have helped smooth the transition from reservation to university. The courses on Indian heritage and history give students a cultural anchor while studying at large public universities.

6.3 Educated Native Indians Are Needed

More educated tribal members are needed badly to fight poverty on reservations. But the entire country, especially in some fields like engineering, also needs them. According to the report issued by the National Action Council for Minorities (NACME), "Engineering needs the fuel of all, not merely some, of our people to propel the country to the frontiers of innovation, production and distribution" .



After this statement of the poverty of Native Indians, we will study their attempts of social and economical improvements. In fact, they seem increasingly determined to regain their independence and dignity by using the methods of countless immigrants who came to this country long after they did that is working hard and raising capital .

Native Indian population is especially made of youthful citizens who want to look forward as well as back. They choose to exist within the industrialized world's money economy simultaneously while existing in their tribal society . That is why instead of choosing integration in the American job market, most of them choose to develop reservations. [/font]
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[BEARCLAW]

Dave,
Very sorry to hear about your nephew. Is his family aware that there is a federal law in place regarding the refusal of medical attention because of financial status? I suggest they lawer up and make the hospital pay.

Thanks for the read on the Indians. I still say they are far better off than a majority of 3rd world countries. Hell, I think they are better off than if we hadn't colonized this continent. They'de still be chuckin spears and dropping off like flies at the ripe old age of 30. Anyway, I'm convinced that the point of the essay I posted has completely passed you by. Unless, of course, you've walked a mile in my shoes.
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[davetclown]

I am surprised that last post went through, I hit send and then I had to do a manual shut down when a storm came up on us... tornados, lightning hail the whole nine yards....

As for a lawyer, no one would take on their case for any thing less the 10g down...

At least I can complain about the situations here, in other countries we are not even aloud that...

I have to admit conditions are better here than other countries, But you have to admit we are no where near being done with civil liberties and equal rights and that poverty needs to be abolished.
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[petty4life]

Earth to Chad.... dont you know that the only way to get threw to Dave is to type in clown language.

or you might be better off beating your head against a cinder block wall[]
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[davetclown]

a slap in the face with a rubber fishy might work better... [laugh]
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[BearLakeMack]

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[size 1]and that poverty needs to be abolished. [/size]

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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]So what's your answer to eliminating poverty? Mine is, get a job![/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] What obligation does the government have to bring some one's poverty level up? The money that would be used to do this comes from the rich that pay a majority of the taxes and provide jobs for those of us that also can pay taxes. The bottom line is, poor people do not pay much taxes that support all the things you'd like to see happen. [/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3][/size][/font][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]What burns my butt is having to get up at 4:00 am everyday, go to my job all day, get paid every other Friday only to see 33% of the money I worked hard for being used to support programs I will never use. Then comes April 15, I write out another check for another grand to pay "my fair share".[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]You cry for more support from the government but what do you put into it? I, as a tax paying American who has to pay for all these things you think you are entitled to, am getting a little ticked off. So I guess we're at a stand off. You want more and I don't want to pay for it. [/size][/black][/font]
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[Flycasting]

For the most part, I agree. The only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that there are people out there that are not able to work or, at least, get a job that really pays any type of bills... certain handicaps, mental disorders, and so forth.

IMO, the biggest problem we have right now is the number of people that abuse our system. It seems that just about anyone can get some kind of benefit, if they just apply for it.

I was hoping that you would join the discussion.
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[davetclown]

LOL, your funny,

I used to think like you,

I have learned from my mistake.

Poverty can strike any one at any time, not even you are imune
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Just be glad people like me are out there going to work every day and paying our taxes, Dave. We're the ones footing the bill for all the needs. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.[/size][/black][/font]
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[davetclown]

I agree in part, there is a lot of abuse, much of it is our governments fault.

as a human resource counsler it killed me to see people who are not citizens of this country stand in the same food line and receive benifits and they are able to work while at the same time I have seen american citizens stand in the same line and get turned away becuse they are able to work... Dont take my word for it, go down and stand infront of the social sucurity agency of your county. I have seen american citizens who are turned away who are not able to work.

By law they are not allowed to turn legal or ileagle away and not allowed to turn in illegal aliens when they apply and they have to give benifits to them on top of it.

It dosnt matter what program goes in to affect there are always poeple going to abuse it, Look at enron, they abused my unkle out of 50 thuosand dollars. do you think he will ever see that money again? Point is it dosnt matter how rich or poor people are, when the oppertunity is there some people just can not resist the temtation to abuse what is with in their grasp.

I think if the government wants to suport aliens then they need to make a sepreate fund/budget for them insted of having them drawing on our social sucurity benifits. WE need to know exactly what the cost of legal and ilegal aliens cost us in welfare benifits paid to them and it needs to be made public and not hidden in the main budget that was set up for american citizens.

the majority of the american public dose not know what I said above to be true, that is because they are working to suport them and dont have time to stand in line at the welfare office...

2 years ago we had a woman who was visiting every emergency food pantry in 3 counties. It was a daily ritual for her. some one got curious about her status when she showed up 3 days in one week at one food shelter and loaded up supplies in to her mercedes.

so some one called a tv station. they came out and watched the woman for about a month. they did some research on her by running her name though the county. they found she had 5 one million dollar estates. and the food she was taking went to her party store where she sold the goods at retail prices. "food and house hold supplies that was ment for those who were in need"

she litteraly was steeling food out of the mouths of the poor... disabled.... the homeless.

Is what she did a crime, YES, did she get prosicuted for it, NO

so yes there those who abuse the system, and those people are the ones with jobs who dont need it...

I have seen it all... It breaks my heart that there are people in this world that are that selfish.
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[davetclown]

I am curious to know how many people you think you feed every month.

You know what your food budget is for a month, divide that by 25% and I bet it is still greater than the food budget that is allotted for the poverties of this nation.

You may not be aware of this, $125 dollars in food stamps is the food allotment for a person living below poverty per month. Thus many of these people living on the gravy train as you would say start suffering from malnutrition, their children grow in to adults with health problems due to malnutrition as a child. An even temporary period of malnutrition causes serious health problems later on in adulthood. Then you complicate the matter with the lack of health care, poor housing that is often low rent and infested with vermin... You are assuredly sending another person to the gravy train.

Did you know that if you were a welfare child there is a 65% chance you will end back up on welfare before you reach the retirement age... and there is 55% chance you wont reach the retirement age because of malnutrition and lack of health care in your early ages of life...

So go ahead and give your self a well deserved pat yourself on the back, you earned it...

I my self after learning the facts would have a hard time as a politician sitting down to a 3 coarse meal knowing that out there are people who had voted for me to make a difference in their life, and there are others out there who are justified in voting against me because they knew in their hearts that I would not do my part to alleviate the suffering and hardship caused by poverty...

My neighbor "mr middle class American" working 2 full time jobs, his wife working full time lost his lower middle class house because the economy took a dump. No safety net for him because some one passed a bill that he could not file bankruptcy and work his way back out. Bank for closed on his house and sold it for one third of what he owed on it.

In the of an eye, mr middle class American went from middle class to poverty, he had to sign up for food stamps, he had to move in to his mothers apartment with his wife, 2 girls and 1 boy at the age of 60....

He had the same opinion of me as you do when he first moved in next door to me 8 years ago. Before he moved out he discovered I had by far more integrity than most of the people he dealt with, and he too needed my services as a human resource counselor before it was all said and done...

There is a moral to this story; I will leave it to you to figure out. No one can explain it to you. no one could explain it to me, I had to learn it the hard way. Rich I pray you don’t have to follow the hard path as I have. I pray you gain truth and understanding with out having to forgo the suffering,...

Some people go though life oblivious to human suffering, that is how we get the husains, the bushes, the hovers, the tallaban, the hitlers, the jacksons, the mings, the dommers, the ceasars and the list goes on and on and on though out history up to today and will go on in to the future.

Where did mine eyes begin to open you may wonder, I will be more than happy to tell you, Some dozen years ago I was visited by 12 men form across the country, you might say emissaries from the church of the latter day saints. They sat in my humble rickety falling down shack of a home in my 13x14 foot living room and prayed.

They asked god to place before my eyes truth and understanding, strength of heart and courage to stay the coarse and lastly for the salvation of my sole.

Knowledge and understanding of the truth dose not come over night, you don’t just wake up with it one morning, it isn’t delivered in the morning paper, you wont even find it in a Sunday morning sermon. This truth you have to experience, if you don’t know any one who lives in poverty, go find one, befriend him, get to know him, learn how he ended up in poverty, be sure to ask him about his endeavors to escape poverty, I bet he has more than a couple dozen attempts he can tell you about. Be sure to ask him what blocked him from being able to move beyond the poverty trap.

No one can witness this tragedy of life with out it changing their vary being unless they have closed their hearts to all human suffering…

I may one day die in poverty, but I wont die ignorant of the truth….
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]My heart bleeds...[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I have compasion for people of real need but when a guy can go out and chip holes through the ice with a pick bar and fish all day and work on a computer for countless hours a day, that person needs a job instead of handouts. He needs to quit whining about how bad it is and cowboy up.[/size][/font]
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[Flycasting]

There is no doubt that bad things happen to good people.

But at what point do people need to stop with the handouts.

I was watching the news a few months backs when they were stopping FEMA checks for some of the Hurricane Katrina victims. They were protesting and what not, and were asking, "What are we going to do now?" My 1st reaction was, "They are still getting FEMA checks?" and my 2nd was "Get a freakin job already! It's been almost 2 years!" Now, I was compassionate for them when this all happended (I even called in and donated some cash), but come on... almost 2 years. There is no one on Earth that is going to convince me that an able bodied person can't find some kind of work to help support his/her family in that amount of time.

The problem? The government enabled them to be lazy. When they are getting the free ride (FEMA checks, Housing, Medicaid/Medicare, Food stamps, etc), why would they look for a job?

Dave, I am not going to pretend that I know what it's like to live in poverty, but I do know what it's like to work hard for what I have. As a citizen, all that I ask from others is that they work hard to pay their dues as well. For those that cannot(not will not) due to whatever circumstance (disabilities, elderly, children), I have no problem that my taxes help them out.

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