I just placed a call to Outcast...

[PrinceFisher]

...and an associate there said that the only change to the 2008 Super Fat Cat and Fat Cat float tubes is the stripping apron design. I asked him repeatedly if the rumor mill was true that the company had switched from the higher quality urethane to vinyl in the construction process of the SFC and FC models, and he said it was just that, "a rumor." He then continued by saying that the Fish Cat model was constructed of vinyl but that the SFC and FC models would continue to be constructed of urethane, and he didn't believe that would change for the foreseeable future.

So I ask you, is this Outcast associate dispensing false information? Or have many of you fine BFTers out there who have claimed that the SFC and FC models are now made of vinyl based your information on heresay and have yourselves fallen victim to the viciousness of unfounded misinformation?

I would really like to know before I venture a purchase of a new Fat Cat. Have any of you actually seen a SFC or FC made of vinyl? Please comment....
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[MisterCompletely]

For the record, I bought a SFC at Cabela's last March when they were $199 and it has a urethane bladder. I sure hope they stick with urethane. The salesman at Cabela's said the new ones would only be available in dark blue. Who knows?
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[flygoddess]

I only know for sure about the PONTOONS. Anything smaller than a Pac 1100 I think it was, is being out sourced. That came from Outcast themself. But I haven't heard anything about the TUBES.
It wouldn't be a big surprise however. If they have a plant over there pumping out bladders for the FC, it would be much more cost effective on their part to build them all there.
Changing world and the US dollar ain't what it should be. Anything can happen, but thanks for the Heads Up.

One note however, not saying this is the case, but the big companies will also dance around the truth. Unless you ask them specific questions. Like, the cover and all the other goodies are made here, but the bladders overseas, then the tube is put together here.
But as you said, only the apron.
This is good...WAHOO.
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[joco]

this is a good tread.

would be nice to no 100% if its true or not. for the suoper fat cat and fat cat..vinyl or uretane.

why would the company said that..to you if not true.

this could be fasl representation..iliggal.

i no some would say to sell there product because they no it would be not as good.

if there a guy that is a new one that as an accident wit it and its no good anymore..just take piece and bring toa tes facility and show whats its made frome.


because i would love to find a old one becaasuse off that but mabe if its not true..jjjjjeeeeeee

but here there some guys that no what they are talking about wen they talk tubes..so hard to say.


so any more response about this guys...?

joco
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[smallmouth89]

Hey Joco,

I see you found this thread. I don't know what to believe. I'm just glad I got last year's model Fat Cat. Did you check with Natural Sports in Kitchener to see if they had any old stock?
God Bless,
Don
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Hopefully we can answer this question soon. PrinceFisher is buying a 2008 model SFC from a young man in his area who needs to sell it for school expenses. We are going to look at the air bladder to verify the material. Will post up when we are able to do a CSI on it.[/#0000ff]
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[joco]

hi..smallmouth[cool]

no i did not.

not yet..[].

will do soon.

thanks.

but it sher would be nice to no the truth.

joco
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[smallmouth89]

[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000ff]Hopefully we can answer this question soon. PrinceFisher is buying a 2008 model SFC from a young man in his area who needs to sell it for school expenses. We are going to look at the air bladder to verify the material. Will post up when we are able to do a CSI on it.[/#0000ff][/quote]

It is only fitting that the "tubemeister" be the one to post the truth in this confusing situation.

I just introduced a fellow to the world of tubing. He was taking me into a little fished lake and I was supplying the floatation in the form of my old and new Fat Cats.
I caught a couple of nice pike one was 3 feet long and my new friend enjoyed the relaxing nature of the tube so much that the 3 pound smallmouth he got was a bonus. He also lost a really nice fish that took him into the weeds.

He was so excited about his new experience he posted a "play by play" on one of the local boards the very next day.
God Bless,
Don
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[joco]

ANY update on that subject...?

can t wait to see the truth in all off this.

joco.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Princefisher is going through some life challenges right now, and is not posting much on the board. However, he has kept me in the loop on his findings.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]First, he answered an ad in his local paper for a "Super Fat Cat", fins and pump...only slightly used...for $160. Smokin' deal. A young student had bought it at the first of the season but now needed the money to go back to school. THE BAD NEWS? When Princefisher showed up to complete the deal it turned out that the tube was a FishCat4...not a Super Fat Cat. The kid's argument was "Well, they are both made by Outcast". Needless to say, Princefisher did not go home with that tube.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]BUT...a few days later he found a pretty good deal for a new 2008 model SFC online. When he questioned the online dealer about the bladder, the guy read from the box...14 MIL URETHANE. I have not heard back from Princefisher since he received his tube, but I am guessing that if they put it on the box it needs to be urethane. We will verify ASAP.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Interesting that this whole controversy was started by Dave Scadden, who was badmouthing Outcast for having their craft made in China and GOING TO VINYL BLADDERS in their new Fat Cats. I have not heard that from any other source. Hmmmmm.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]As we have discussed before, it is good to buy USA made...when you can get what you want. But, it is not always possible to get the features you want (and sometimes the quality) in USA made products. Then you have to make your own decisions. Do you want what is available...foreign made...or will you do without?[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Tube Dude quote: Interesting that this whole controversy was started by Dave Scadden, who was badmouthing Outcast for having their craft made in China and GOING TO VINYL BLADDERS in their new Fat Cats. I have not heard that from any other source. Hmmmmm.


Excuse me, but where and when did Dave say this? Or what badmouthing was said about Outcast?
I am sure he did say Urethane is a Superiour material to Vinyl, and in truth it is.
I think it was ME that made mention that Outcast was outsourcing.
As far as any other source mentioning this, there is a few, read the BUCK'S BAG site, they say the same thing although they are now outsourcing there lower end.
The only bad mouthing I have read from or about NFO/ Scadden is from Tube Dude, and Liprippa........right?[]
To be honest, NFO could care less what you buy. They welcome the competition, or so they have told me.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Sorry Joni, but Dave Scadden told me that DIRECTLY, as I stood in front of him in his Ogden warehouse...while returning a defective seat cushion from the H3 I had recently bought from him. It was the first I had heard it and the only other times I heard or read anything about it was in your "advice" to other folks on the board who were considering buying anything but NFO. I found it interesting that your points were almost word for word from the diatribe I got from Dave.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Oh yeah, I also got a major "download" on how bad the new line of Outcast products were and that everybody who bought them were returning them because of defects. That has not happened.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]My info is FIRSTHAND...not just reviews or info from other obscure websites.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Otherwise, who knows how rumors get started? [/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Tube Dude Quote: Sorry Joni, but Dave Scadden told me that DIRECTLY, as I stood in front of him in his Ogden warehouse.

[cool]So, this has not been in writing, but rather, boasting about a product he builds and has sold THOUSANDS world wide to hard core tube and boat users (meaning white water along with just stillwater fishing)
I also heard him say there was legal issues as far as Outcast and his patents. Could just be talk[]

Tube dude quote: Otherwise, who knows how rumors get started?


[cool]I am guessing ....... people.[laugh]

Nothing wrong with bragging rights as long as you can back it up.
Funny but allot of blown out or defective boats are NOT reported. Maybe imbarrasement or just wanting to forget, but they are there and you can't find hardly any posts about them.

There is little quality control as far as Vinyl in China, that is all I am saying.
As SHig has said, it is all in the outer cover and how it is put together, and Outcast, Bucks, NFO and a couple others have been the leaders in this.
There are a few NFO owners out there that do get a little tired of BASHING a product they love and vise versa.

Like I said, nothing wrong with patting yourself on the back for something you feel confident in (like being the REASON tubes are so popular in this area)[]

There is always going to be some people that just don't agree, no matter how strongly you believe and your experiences.

I am sure that Outcast will continue the quality of the MOST POPULAR float tube on the market. Not sure WHY they changed the design however.
My philosophy has changed in that I will say, buy what you can afford, but as far as floating on stillwaters, buy the BEST you can afford for safety whether it be VINYL or Urethane. The outer cover is the big deal.
Don't be scared or leary of OUTCAST at all if it does end up Vinyl, the cover is still great.
Look how many ODC's are on the water and they have ALWAYS been vinyl.
In the same breath, I will say, don't be afraid of NFO either. I do get allot of reports on other forums that people prefer BIGGER tubes and that is where NFO comes in. Plus the quality really is there.....10 years and still going strong for me. Did I mention, my SFC did say Anglers Inn (Dave Scadden) on it.[laugh]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Just for the record, I will be first to point out the high quality of NFO craft. None better.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Second, I will also be first to register my disappointment with some of the obvious downturns in overall quality with the Outcast line. As you pointed out, the covers are thinner and more poorly constructed. Also...hate the new apron design, but I don't use them anyway. I make my own rigid aprons.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I know there are "issues" between Dave and Outcast. I am sure that is behind much of what he says about them, and how he presents his products for comparison. But, I have been in business for many years and have always operated under the guidelines that you sell your own product...for what it can do for the customer...and don't tear down a competitive product just to sell your own. It's a case of trying to pull yourself up by pulling others down. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Sophisticated and intelligent shoppers quickly recognize this tactic and are generally turned off by it. In my travels around the country, and in receiving and responding to emails and PMs from fellow tubers, I have had more than a few people ask why Dave is so vocally negative about Outcast when he has a booth at a sports show. I too have listened to his "sales pitches" at such shows and a big part of his "marketing technique" is blasting the competition. In fact, I have had newbie tubers tell me that a big part of the reason they did NOT buy NFO was because of the negative selling tactics.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]But, as we have agreed to agree, it all still comes down to each person making his or her own decisions...based upon their own personal reasons. The best we can hope to do is to point out the important things to look for...and look out for...and then hope that the buyer gets a tube that is right for them and fits into their budget without causing a divorce.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I went back to the Super Fat Cat for mainly one reason. It was the only large guy tube that was comfortable for me to fish from and that had the large pockets I need. If the H3 was comfortable to me, I would still be fishing from it. But, it wasn't and I'm not. And, if I have to replace the SFC in another 5 years...well, I might not even be able to fish from a float tube by then.[/#0000ff]
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[PrinceFisher]

Don't know how much this post will help, but I did get my 2008 Fat Cat about a week ago. One of the first things I did was check the documentation on the box and included material. Everything Outcast provided with my tube reads, "Urethane Air Cell."

Call me a moron, but I'm not an expert with regards to determining if a material is urethane or vinyl, so when I unzipped the tube cover to look at the actual air cell, all I could determine was it was a flexible rubber-like material that was a semi-opaque creamy yellow in color.

I have it all assembled and nearly fully inflated. I'm not sure how I'm going to like the "rigid" apron, as it feels rather flimsy to me, but I won't provide an official critique until I see how it performs while supporting a big (hopefully) flopping fish.

And just so you know, Outcast does report on its Web site that its Fish Cat line are made with vinyl air cells, while the Outcast series feature the urethane air cells.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Sounds like urethane to me. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Are you ready to rumble...errrr splash?[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

I was going to say the same thing, sounds like Urethane to me also.
Outcast has been around a long time, I think you will be happy.
And Tube Dude, I have heard Dave's sales pitch several times also. While I haven't caught the PUTTING DOWN OUTCAST part I have heard the THIS IS WHAT I DO THAT OUTCAST DOESN'T line.
I do recall when we bought our Chevy Pick-up, Ford and Dodge were brought into the conversation ALLOT.
Just me I am sure but, I don't hear that as a put down.
But, maybe that is why "I" get all the e-mails and the PM's asking about NFO boats. Proud to say, I HAVE sold several for Dave[] Now if I were on the payroll[mad]
It HAS been proven that mm to mm vinyl can be as tuff as Urethane, but Urethane will last longer and is more durable, and as you put it several posts ago, one might not live long enough to see this advantage.
Again, the outer case is the determining factor.....is it a Ball Park Frank that plumps when you cook it?[laugh]
So now we have the weight difference, which also not really a big measure on smaller tubes...pontoons more noticeable.
Price, there again China or USA. Us Americans don't work cheap, but I think we put heavier guidelines on some product.
I remember when CHINA (plates) were the thing to have...LOL
I also have several friends in Tremonton that are without a job because of outsourcing, but we are doing it to ourselves.[pirate]

IT IS A HOBBY not meant to break the bank. Enjoy, and don't sweat the small stuff LOL
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[PrinceFisher]

Pat, my friend, I believe I am getting closer to the maiden splash. I received an Outcast pump (free, with purchase, by the way) delivered with my tube. I've been looking for a sweet deal on a pair of Mares or Turtle fins, but I've been unsuccessful thus far.

I would really, REALLY like to join you on the water sometime soon, but obligations at work are preventing me from taking days off during the week for the short-term, and I know you're not a weekend warrior when it comes to hitting the H2O in your inflatable on a busy Saturday.

I'm probably going to break a bottle of non-alcoholic sparkling apple juice across the bow of my FC (hope the urethane holds) sometime during this upcoming Labor Day break and get the Fatty wet for the first time. I'll probably just hit a local water for an hour or two in the evening within the week.

When I get the Fatty all spruced up with rod holders and the like and me all decked out with the appropriate gear--and when my employer cooperates--I'll have my peeps get in touch with yours, and hopefully we can cook up a rendevous on the water.

Good luck to you and Sir Lloyd the Walleye Master tomorrow morning. Wish I could join you at Malnourishment Reservoir, but I enjoy getting a regular paycheck too much to beg for the morning off.

S
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Well, I will be kinda out of action for the next week or two myself. Eye surgery on the 2nd, with recuperation of a few days. Then a weekend trip to visit the relatives in Idaho (no fishing). After the 15th TubeBabe is headed out of town for a couple of weeks and I will be a fishin' fool bachelor. And, I am sure we could work out a meetup on a weekend. Heck, I ain't proud.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]But, you need to know that anybody who fishes with me for the next couple of months is in serious danger of being ignored or abused. I am focusing on walleyes and won't allow myself to be distracted. Got a plan to hit the major walleye ponds within reach of the Wasatch Front and to score walleyes from a minimum of 4 of them. That takes focus, dedication and commitment.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]So, as the old saying goes..."Lead, follow or get the heck out my way."[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Let me know if you would like to visit the "Tubatorium" (my garage) to get your new Chubby Kitty properly tricked out.[/#0000ff]
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[zonker]

[quote TubeDude][#0000ff]And, if I have to replace the SFC in another 5 years...well, I might not even be able to fish from a float tube by then.[/#0000ff][/quote]

Say it ain't so!

z~
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