Rotenone & East Fork of Boulder Creek

[sinergy]

On Aug. 25, the supervisor of the Dixie National Forest approved a permit for the Division of Wildlife Resources to resume using Rotenone on an 8.5-mile strip of the East Fork of Boulder Creek above the bucolic town in Garfield County.

The project has been stalled since 2009 after residents’ objections

The project is intended to kill non-native fish species, such as brook trout. It is supported by conservation groups that want to see the Colorado cutthroat thrive instead of other species introduced in the 1940s by the DWR.




Anybody have any insight on this and why is the DWR wasting money to killing game fish ???
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[riverdog]

Because brook trout aren't native. They ruin most streams and lakes by overpopulating and stunting. For every big one there are 10,000 of those pests. That said almost all pesticides, herbicides and this rotenone are neurotoxins. I'd rather have brook trout than have rotenone flow next to where I live. I need all the brain cells I have. People mistake natural occurring/ organic as meaning safe.
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[PBH]

The brook trout in Boulder Creek reach about 6" max. Who wants that?? The cutts, on the other hand, have the potential to grow much larger. Anglers should be thrilled with this project, because it will improve the sport fish opportunities on the upper stretches of Boulder Creek.

As for rotenone, It is neutralized at the end of the target section utilizing potassium permanganate. Any rotenone that get's past this neutralizing station would quickly break down by sunlight. When used in amounts (concentration) necessary to kill fish, there is nothing to suggest that rotenone is dangerous to humans or livestock.

http://www.si.edu/marinescience/pdf/Robertson.pdf
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[joshomaru]

The trib had an article on this very subject yesterday. Apparently there is a link to Parknson's disease, but it hasn't been proven that this kind of application can be linked to parkinsons....
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[riverdog]

Rotenone is classified as WHO class 3 on a 1-4 scale. Permethrin an insecticide from chrysanthemums is also class 3. I have seen a lot of data in the past decade showing permethrin is neurotoxic and exposure is linked to Parkinsons, Gulf War Syndrome and possible ALS. Most people thought it's from a flower it's safe. Rotenone is from plant roots. Permethrin has been used very widespread for decades in flea and tic repellant for pets, insecticide for crops, topical medication for lice and scabies and an insect repellant for clothes and bednets. Permethrin binds to fibers and isn't absorbed well by the skin. You would have thought something used hundreds of millions if not billions of times we would have known about safety issues prior to a decade or so ago. Pesticides in well water and farmers exposures are now also linked to Parkinsons. The problem with rotenone is we really don't know how safe it is. Just because it's neutralized and no longer directly interferes with cells taking up oxygen doesn't mean the new compounds won't be neurotoxic. I've fished Boulder Creek many times. If they poison it I'll be back to fish it again just not the next week. When they treated Diamond Fork above 3 Forks several times and neutralized it seemed all the big browns and cutts below disappeared. Maybe a coincidence but minimum flows are no longer such an issue with CUP. The other tributaries flowing into 3 Forks didn't suffer a dramatic reduction of trout. If you stress a fish's ability to utilize oxygen a bit it may not go belly up immediately but could make it more likely to do so with further stresses down the road. I'm not paranoid but it probable cumulative exposure to all sorts of things that kills brain cells and I'd rather limit it if possible.
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[PBH]

[quote riverdog] I have seen a lot of data in the past decade showing permethrin is neurotoxic and exposure is linked to Parkinsons....[/quote]

We're not talking about permethrin. We're talking rotenone. For some very good information concerning rotenone, it's application, and the findings of the study linking rotenone to Parkinson's, read this:

[url "http://www.fisheriessociety.org/rotenon/parkinsonstudy.shtml"]http://www.fisheriessociety.org/...parkinsonstudy.shtml[/url]

[quote "The Fish Management Chemicals Subcommittee Task Force on Fishery Chemicals of the American Fisheries Society"]
...the reported findings of a relationship between Parkinson's disease and rotenone in an Emory University study (Betarbet et al. 2000) do not suggest a need for additional precautions with respect to current uses of rotenone. Neither studies conducted for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency nor the use of rotenone for many decades have indicated any associations with Parkinson's disease.[#ff0000] Unfortunately, the report is certain to generate unfounded fears, caused by the inaccurate and incomplete reporting of the study and its implications.[/#ff0000] In fact, Betarbet et al. (2000) concluded that their findings do not show that exposure to rotenone has caused Parkinson's disease. They stated further that "rotenone seems to have little toxicity when administered orally".[/quote]

Further, concerning the study linking Parkinsons to rotenone:

The manner that rotenone was administered to the laboratory rats was highly unnatural. Not only was it [#ff0000]administered by continuous jugular vein infusion[/#ff0000], it was mixed with DMSO and PEG. DMSO enhances tissue penetration of many chemicals (Dr. Peter Kurtz, M.D., California Department of Food and Agriculture, personal communication) The normal exposure to rotenone in humans from its use in fisheries management would be ingestion, inhalation or through the skin. Direct injection is the fastest way to deliver chemicals to the body, as evidenced in intravenous application of medicines. Continuous intravenous injection, as done in this study, also leads to continuously high levels of the chemical in the bloodstream. Normal ingestion, inhalation, and dermal exposures significantly slow down the introduction of chemicals into the bloodstream. Administering any chemical directly into living tissues can have grave consequences.

...sodium chloride (table salt) administered to developing chick embryos causes birth defects (Dr. P. Kurtz, M.D., California Department of Food and Agriculture, personal communication). However, this model has no practical predictive value for humans ingesting salt.

Rotenone is safe to use in fisheries management applications. Unfortunately, there is a lot of fear associated with it, mainly because the majority of people are not educated on the subject.
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[PBH]

[quote riverdog]Just because it's neutralized and no longer directly interferes with cells taking up oxygen doesn't mean the new compounds won't be neurotoxic. [/quote]

To the contrary:

[quote "The Fish Management Chemicals Subcommittee Task Force on Fishery Chemicals of the American Fisheries Society"]
Rotenone exposure in the environment is extremely limited. Rotenone is very unstable in the environment (half-life measured in days), is oxidized (neutralized) through enzymatic action in the gut of mammals and birds, is metabolized to very polar (water soluble) compounds in the body, and these compounds are excreted by the liver and kidney (Finlayson et al. 2000). Because of the rapid metabolism and clearance in mammals and birds, it is not likely that rotenone could reach the site of action in the substantia nigra in the brain where the dopamine is formed. Rotenone is toxic to fish because it is taken up rapidly across the gills and gets directly into the bloodstream, thus, bypassing the gut. Rotenone is considered safe for the environment because it loses all its toxicity in a few days. In fact, it is significant that the Emory University investigators could not administer rotenone in any other manner except intravenously and get delivery of rotenone to the brain; otherwise, rotenone would have been neutralized in the gut and liver.[/quote]

Consider further studies done using rats ingesting rotenone vs. direct injectiong to the jugular:

The results from a chronic feeding study with rats using rotenone found no Parkinson's- like anatomical or behavioral symptoms (Marking 1988). In this 24-month chronic feeding study, rotenone was orally administered to 320 rats in doses up to 75 mg/kg per day. All surviving animals were sacrificed and tissues and organs of all test animals were examined macroscopically and microscopically. The brain was sectioned, and microscopic examinations of the basal ganglia, frontal cortex, occipital cortex, thalamus, and cerebellum were completed. No changes were observed in the brain of these rotenone-exposed rats. It is significant that these rats were exposed to up 30 times more rotenone (2.5 versus 75 mg/kg/day) for 21 times longer (5 versus 104 weeks) [b]than the rats used in the Emory University study. However, these rats were exposed to rotenone [b]by ingestion, the route people would be exposed to rotenone.

when used properly in fisheries management, rotenone is quite safe.
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[riverdog]

My was point was use and information on rotenone is extremely limited in comparison to permethrin. Permethrin is poorly absorbed as it binds to fibers incredible well. That's why it works on dog after swimming a dozen times or clothes after washing many times. Gulf War ( Desert Storm) vets that were exposed to it had an increased risk of Gulf War Syndrome. There are other known exposures that also increased the risk of Gulf War Syndrome. It clearly was a cumulative effect of many things. No one had a clue 20 years ago that permethrin may have toxic effects on the vets and others exposed to it. It was thought absorption was so extremely limited and the long term use hadn't uncovered any problems that it was not a concern at all. It took billions of uses of permethrin to start to understand it's true toxic effects. Do you really think we understand all the effects of rotenone and it metabolites? I'd say not even close. Again not to be paranoid but if they poison the stream I'd stay away from the stream for a week that's all. If you ever eaten any nonorganic fruits and vegetables you been exposed to permethrin. I wash mine to reduce exposure of it and whatever else might be on it. I don't stop eating them however.
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