How Quick does ice form?

[pookiebar]

So with the single didget nights coming up how fast do you think PV will get ice? Or East Canyon?

I am ready to jump on the hard deck!!
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[wiperhunter2]

Depend on if you are talking about the whole lake or just the shallow bays. If I had to guess I'd say two weeks minimum but it depends on the temps next week. The deepest spots are always the last to freeze. Pineview rarely freezes before the end of Dec. East canyon, the end of dec or the first few weeks in Jan.
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[altizerbd]

This is good info. Thanks WH2
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[cuthroat_guy]

Hey pookie!
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[pookiebar]

hey there! you had any luck at bear lake lately? we going to hit the ice up there?

saw a picture of your mount. that thing looks awesome!
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[cuthroat_guy]

Bear lake treats me good!

The mount is awesome , pictures don't do it justice.

Don't know if the lake will freeze this year, either way come up sometime see if you can beat last years haul!
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[Fin-S-Fish]

If the water is shallow and already cold, bays and harbors can have "safe" ice in as little as one night under 10. Two nights under 10 and time to jump up and down. I'm talking shallow though, no way on pineview or ec. Probably end of Dec or Jan 1 for pine. And yes I define "safe" as two inches solid ice. Fished open water one year at a given spot and stood on the same place the next day before, it can happen fast but you need several hours to hold at under 10. If it's 15 then it takes at least 3 to 4 days. It all depends. Use tools to make a hole at the shore and test thickness with fingers in hole first. Make more tiny testers as you go out. I don't use a ruler to measure, I just eyeball it. You will hear cracking at each step if it's under 2in lol. That's when it's dicey. If you want to actually jump or take an atv on the hard deck head up to mirror lake or something lol.
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[BADFISH]

It is like waiting for the fridge to make more ice for your tea in the middle of July isnt it. no bueno. LMAO[crazy]
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[PBH]

interesting discussion. It's kind of a funny one. Stop for a few minutes and think about it: how quick does ice form?


Well, let's break it down:

1. ice forms at 32 degree (fresh water).


so, the real question is when does the surface temperature of a particular lake reach 32 degrees?

that all depends on the lake. Location of the lake certainly plays into this -- what elevation is the lake at? This is going to help get surface temps to cool. This could begin in September, October, or November. Or all three.

How deep is the lake? Does it stratify all the way down, or only partially down? When water cools, it sinks. Thus, lake "turnover". So, before the surface temp can reach 32 degrees, the lake has to "mix" or "turn over", allowing the colder surface water (colder air cooling the surface temp) to sink and the warmer water below the surface to rise, and then to cool and sink...


So, for those that said "it happens quickly" -- they were wrong. It happens slowly. But some lakes start sooner than others, and some lakes take less time for the process to happen. Once temperatures have mixed, then the surface temp can hit 32, at which point ice would form. So, in a sense, this last bit of the process might appear to happen quickly -- like overnight.

Some lakes take a long time for this process to happen (Bear Lake, Fish Lake, Lake Powell). Some lakes start the process sooner than others (high elevation), and some lakes have the whole process complete rather quick (shallow lakes).


so, the real question in all of this garbage is: what lake are you talking about?
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[Therapist]

Right on, Right on, Right on !!! The physics of water are very interesting. Water in it's liquid state expands as it get colder !! It becomes denser as it gets colder, but becomes less dense as it freezes, so it floats. That is why our lakes do not freeze from the bottom up, but from the top down.

As to when will our ponds freeze over !! With no wind and these cold temps, you will most likely get a light cap on Utah Lake over the next few days, shallow water. Due to the warm temps we have had over the last few weeks, most of our waters were still in the mid to upper 40's, so we'll need a lot of cold before they get to the point where they will freeze. They may get a skiff at night, with no wind, but it will disappear during the day.

[pookiebar]

pineview and east canyon, were original questioned waters. I know they won't be ready for a while.
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[Fin-S-Fish]

Excellent detail there but I was skipping all this stratification stuff and boiling it down to the assumption that the water was at or within a few degrees of 32. One of my favorite lakes in low elevation will have "safe" ice tomorrow. [] I'm sick in bed didn't go down to take a look, but I don't need to, with these kinda temps anything shallow is gonna be solid. Deeper waters, even at higher elevation are probably still 39 degrees or so for a while and it takes a long time to cool 30 to 50 ft of water so your stratification nuances explicate that superbly. No need to think about places like pineview for weeks.
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[PBH]

[quote Therapist]That is why our lakes do not freeze from the bottom up, but from the top down. [/quote]

How many people do you think really understand this?

cold water sinks. But ice floats. Coincidence?? I think not. It's a good thing too -- if ice did not float, our oceans would have frozen from the bottom up a long time ago, and life would have ceased.


Anyone have a kid that needs to plan a science experiment: If cold water sinks, why does ice float? And, what might happen if ice didn't float?
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[Stickhorse]

My oldest son lives in Morgan and said it was -9 degrees this morning and his truck doors were frozen up. Its supposed to be cold like this into the weekend so East Canyon could have some ice sooner than usual.
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[Therapist]

Yep, we would have never gotten out of the first ice age !! The physics of it all is interesting because most everything else works the opposite, the colder things get the denser they get !!

Now, all we have to do is keep it cold for a week or so and get a hard cap we can walk on !!!

[Duckbutter]

This chart is just an estimation, and by no means is consistent, but it gives us an idea. Snow on the ice, currents, water temperature, depth and other factors come in to play.


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