Big Wipers

[fishinfool]

Was wondering if any of you guys are experiencing the same thing I am,all small to medium sized wipers are hooking up with both treble hooks in there mouth and gill plates,but the big boys are hooked up for and taking line then seem to spit the hooks shortly after there hooked,I have my drag set so if iI get a big one one that it doesnt break but takes line,Is this the reason why the big ones are getting off and should I set the drag a litter tighter so as to keep the pressure on the fish and relying on the lines strenghth and not worry about if the line breaks,I know I have had big fish hooked and they spit the hook as fast as there hooked,just curious what you guys have noted to be a trend as I have,any info would be great.

Thanks,Tony
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[wiperhunter2]

Tony, I think you would be better off leaving you drag loose, the thing about big wipers is they just fight hard. If you tighten your drag and your line holds(It might not) the bigger wipers are so strong that they can just rip the lure loose anyway. The best thing to do is just keep the pressure on and hope for the best. Sometimes they start coming toward you and you let your guard down and the next thing you know they get off. The best thing to remember is try and keep a tight line at all times. WH2
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[Teroy]

When I troll, I keep my drag just tight enough to keep the line from going out any farther than I want it to. I let the little drag I have set and the speed of the boat set the hook. I havent lost that many though. Maybe 2 or 3 out of 15.
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[fishinfool]

Ok,now where getting somewhere,I have my drag set alot tighter than you do Troy,most small fish will give a few small strips of line then stop,the bigger fish will strip line then get off,I think that I may have it to tight and the big boys are ripping the lure loose from there own brute strength,It's been frustrating cause I have hooked into some big ones and they are ripping the line of then bam there gone,You can bet i'm going to try a looser drag next time out,Thaks to all for replying to my post,was really getting frustated.

TIGHT LINES,Tony
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[PREDATOR]

Heres my opinion. First of all, if you are worried about breaking line, beef it up. Most guys I run into are using fireline. I use it, tackle is the only thing between you and the fish, if you arent using stuff that can handle the job, why bother? Fireline is disliked because of its non clear properties. Willard is so dirty, and when trolling, is so difficult to see, it really is not a problem. If you go mono, get a streachy soft line with good knot strength. Either way, use a large enough test to handle the job. Next, is the issue of drag. There is no question that baitcasters - trolling reels have far superior drag systems. If you are loosing fish due to the choppy tings of a spinning reel drag, I would recomend going to a smoother more acurate baitcaster drag. Next and probably the very most important is hook sharpness. if you can touch it and it doesnt penetrate the skin, its not sharp enough. Lots of lures come with junk hooks and straight out of the box, or after just one or two fish, the hooks are dull enough they require some effort to get them into you. Same with the fish. Also, if you are still trolling while reeling in the fish, you are probably bending hooks and split rings as well as snapping line. I always try to stop the boat to fight fish, unless the wind and waves prevent it due to a mass of tangles. But if you do stop the boat, make sure you pick up the rod and are reeling to keep the tension on before shutting off the engine. Also, I would take a good look at the rod you are using. if it is being maxed out and there is no bend left in it, you are going full drag and line stretch. If this is the case, either get a different rod, or use line with more give and make sure you stop the boat to catch fish, this will allow for the rod to relax. My guess would be that you just arent getting a good enough hook set. Due to two things, 1) the rod you are using doesnt have the power to rip the lure through the grip of the fishes mouth, thus the hooks never get drug through the fishes lips. 2) your hooks are dull and not penetrating the skin. In bolth cases, when the fish decides he doesnt want the lure anymore and opens his mouth to spit it, the lure just pops out. No way to know for sure, just my guess.

[fishinfool]

Very good pionts predator,but the line is 10lb fireline,the hooks are excalibar #6 and the snap rings are not breaking,my pole is a 7ft heavy ugly stick with a mitchell copperhead spinning reel,drag seem very smooth,and I stop the boat or slow it down quickly so the other poles can be reeled in,thinthat I may have had the drag alittle to tight and the fish where ripping the hooks lose on there own,I do have a bait cast pole that I use when walleye fishing,Thanks for the good info and replying to my post.

TIGHT LINES.

Tony
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[PREDATOR]

[size 4]Hey, sometimes everything is just where you need it to be and you just loose some. Its all part of the game. I notice when I loose fish, its a dull hook or a short strike, or sometimes they just miss the hooks all together. I remember one day fishing grubs in the spring, lots of hits but no hookups, I moved to a long shank hook and that fixed the problem. Turns out the fish were just a bit sluggish and were missing the hook by a mere 1/4 inch. [/size]

[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I agree 100% with Predator, If you're breaking off, Beef it up. Change to heavier line for starters. Go to fireline and get the strength of 20 lb test at 6 lb mono diameter. Use knots that are designed to hold at 90-95% of line strength. There are a ton of them out there. I use a San Diego knot that the guys fishing big tuna swear by. It's a little bit of a pain in the a$$ to tie but it's been tested at 95% knot strength a lot better than most. Verify all your hardware is top quality. Set your drags according to your line strength capacity.You should set your drags at 1/3 of the line strength. This is the standard rule of thumb. Set it there and LEAVE IT ALONE! Let your drags do what they are designed to to.Bottom line, fish for the biggest fish you intend to land and every other fish is taken care of.

I think the boat should "set" the hook when you troll. If you are trolling with a loose drag and a fish hit's hard, your rod does not have the oportunity to do what it is designed to do and that's flex and put pressure on a fish. If You end up giving line; you are not getting a good firm set. You have to let the rod take the initial shot and springing back; thus the setting action. Downriggers guys actually put a big bow in their lines to help set the hook because when the line releases from the downrigger release there is some slack and the rod is used to take it up helping the hook set.

Sometimes the hook will pull loose but who says you wouldn't have lost that fish at the boat or during the fight if you loosened the drag? You may just be putting off the inevitable. I'd rather have the fish hook himself while the drag are set correctly. This not only will help you set the hook but it is still give line if you are hung up on the bottom. JMHO.......

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[fishinfool]

Thanks for the great info,

And have to say BLM,looks like you have got a happy kid next to that fish on the WALL OF FAME,good luck on winning.

You guys are the ones that helped me catch wipers,and I will always come back to the site to get updated on where they might be biting,Your always out there (WISHED I WAS THERE),fishing,and figuring out what there biting,Then come on the board and let everyone else have good honest info to go off of.

TIGHT LINES,Tony
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[TubeDude]

Hey Tony, congrats on graduating to "worm" status.

I haven't seen anybody else mention an obvious solution. That is to change the rear treble to a single heavy duty hook. It works on salmon and other stout fish. Why not wipers. With a good spinner bait trailer hook, with a wide gap, you get one good hook into the fish and that's all you need. Easier to get the hook out of the fish and less chance of trashing your net...or your fingers...with trebles too.
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[BearLakeMack]

[font Comic Sans MS][size 4]That does work but you need to be aware that you don't get the single hook catching on to the front treble. I wouldn't cast my lure out but would let it carefully into the water by the boat. I think just upgrading the trebles to a minimum 2X saltwater takes care of the problem. There is a site in Austrailia that recommends changing the original hardware on the Producer lures to 3X saltwater trebles for queenfish, etc! Now those must be TOUGH fish! JMHO....[/size]
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[PREDATOR]

[size 4]Now this is what makes the internet worth having. A bunch of guys with a bunch of different methods, all out discussing fishing theory on a subject as critical as losing fish. Nobody likes losing fish, and everyone has a logical and valid approach to the solution. Certain fishermen find themselves of a similar mind and others, like another approach, bottom line is, as long as we all got some ideas and catch more fish in the end, it was worth the discussion. If anyone else finds that they dont lose fish at willard and has a reason why they feel they dont, I would love to hear it.[/size]

[Teroy]

Coundn't agree with you more Predator. I have seen more fisherman post the [size 1]techniques[/size] on this board than any other. Seems most of the people here are eager to share with the people who are trying to learn.

As far as losing fish. I don't lost too many. Guess I'm just lucky or the delay from when the fish hits till the time I grab my pole has something to do with it?? Not sure, but if I ever find out I'll let ya'll know!
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[Old_Coot]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]Just as FishinFool was saying, I too have seen an increase in loosing some larger wipers early in the retrieve. I thought it was just me.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]The Prism Shad Producer (PSP) is my preferred lure. Prior to modifying my PSP's with a tail flash, all the mouth hookups were on the tail hook. Since I have started modifying my PSP's, like FF was saying, the mouth hooks are on the front hooks and the tail hooks grab the gill plate.[/size][/font]
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Another reason you may be getting front treble hook ups is that predator fish instinctively hit the head portion of their prey. That's a lot of the reason eyes are put on lures. Also red is put on the head to simulate gills. This all aids in the fish helping to identify the head area or so the theory goes. I really don't believe by putting some flashabou on a hook is going to change how fish hits a lure. I also believe that wipers hit the lure so hard that the rear hooks get caught up in the intial strike. Thank that hook set to the forward motion of the boat and the spring back of the rod. I have seen this same thing happen to trout that hit crankbaits hard. Heck, I'm sure all of you have seen a fish who has struck a trolled lure, hooked in the body and not the mouth at all. The fish just misjudged the attack but hit the lure HARD! [/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]The flashabou is there for one reason - to get a little more action into the lure to hopely provoke a strike. Yes, the color can help but when all factors are accessed, color is the last thing to consider. Most fisherman use that first. I don't believe the flashabou should be taken for much more than that.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]JMHO..........[/size][/font]

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