Utah lost Patagonia and likely other Outdoor Retailers

[dubob]

[quote FatBiker]Bovineowner, there's a fish cleaning station at Willard Bay's south marina that has been broken for at least 18 months. Willard Bay is one else of the state's most popular state parks. Despite the efforts of many people on this site we have not been able to get any action on this issue. Utah collects $10 from everyone who drives through the gate yet won't put any money into maintaining the facilities. I've personally made three trips to SLC on this issue and the only answer I can get is, "the parts on order."

Larry[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I don't want to hijack lunatics thread, but I would suggest you go back and read my thread on the cleaning station Larry. I think I covered it well and showed the who, what, where, and when. I did it all with just a few phone calls, emails, and a face-to-face meeting with Officer Morgan (Willard Bay SP Manager). Was the ball dropped? Yes, more than once. Will the problem be fixed? Definitely! Did I complain, and cry, and moan about it like a lunatic on a Internet forum? Nah! I found out the facts of the matter and posted the information for everybody's benefit with no political overtones or placing of blame. Here's the link:[/#800000][/font] [url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=987487;search_string=fish%20cleaning;#987487"]Cleaning Station thread[/url]
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[FatBiker]

Bob, did your efforts get it fixed? I was one of the folks who emailed and made calls (at your suggestion). I even stopped at their Hq in SLC several times. While the cover was removed, it still wasn't fixed. This is an excellent example of state mismanagement. Personally, I don't think they are capable or willing to manage Utah federal land.


Larry

By the way, myself and a thousand other Patriots in attendance and waiting outside enjoyed the non-answers little Jason Chavez gave at his town hall meeting the other night. Power to the people!!!!
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[dubob]

[quote FatBiker]Bob, did your efforts get it fixed?[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Did my efforts get it fixed? No, they did not. However, my efforts DID get folks (like yourself) involved and did get folks in the state government to take another look at the problem and possibly even got things moving quicker to get it fixed. Thank you for getting involved.

As to communications between me and my Federal/State congressional folks, I have ALWAYS gotten a reply when I write to them. I don't have a clue as to why you don't and don't care to guess. As to showing up at Town Hall meetings, it's a total waste of time regardless of who is conducting it. ALL politicians see this as only a photo op and NONE of them, for the most part, really care what you think or say at those affairs.[/#][/font]
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[FishingLunatic]

That's the second one they lost this week. Maybe more to follow soon....I'll have to look at the figures they bring to the state but now I bet we've lost over $100million annually. http://www.tetongravity.com/story/news/a...-retailer1
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[dubob]

[font "Times New Roman"] [/font][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Okay, it’s time to stop the bovine excrement of the highest odor. Lunatic would have us believe that because Patagonia, Black Diamond, and now Arc'teryx don’t like the political environment here in Utah that the Outdoor Retailers are pulling out of Utah and will cost the state $50 million annually.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000] [/#800000][/font][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The Outdoor Retailers issued a press release that, among other things, said it brings 29,000 outdoor manufacturers, retailers, and suppliers to the Salt Palace Convention Center each year. So, I’m supposed to get all upset and worried about 3 no-shows? Yeah; right.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000] [/#800000][/font][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The other side of the coin is this – the show is locked into SLC until at least the Summer Show of 2018. Here is a quote from the Outdoor Retailers news release of Feb 6, 2017:[/#800000][/font]
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Salt Lake has been an incredible venue and our home for more than 20 years. Outdoor Retailer’s current contract commitment is through Summer Market 2018. We will begin exploring location options beyond that which will include Salt Lake City as well as other cities that are viable options for Outdoor Retailer.
[font "Times New Roman"] [/font]Key criteria that we will evaluate include facilities, hotels, transportation, labor costs and the degree to which the host city aligns with our industry’s core values.
[font "Times New Roman"] [/font]We’d like to stress we have not made a decision to leave Salt Lake City. This said, we believe it is important to evaluate our location options to ensure Outdoor Retailer is hosted in the best city and venue that will serve our customers’ unique culture and diverse business needs across multiple market segments.

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Could the Outdoor Retailers cut and run because a few libtard retailers are crying because they didn’t get their milk and cookies last night? Yes, they could. Is it a done deal right now? Hell no. Listening to libtards whining is rather like reading the story Chicken Little all over again. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Pathetic.[/#800000][/font]
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[FishingLunatic]

2 more to the mix. Dubob, the show will go on no matter how many drop out because outdoor retailers is honoring their 2018 contract. The show's will go on but the money that gets generated for the state will be drastically reduced because of decreased sponsors. A more important point is that even outdoor retailers like REI who have stated that they are still going to the show know that what are state officials are trying to do is bad. The other more important issues goes beyond 2018. This isn't a liberal vs. republican issue. This is a matter of having the best possible public lands. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=43148443CEO

And No Dubob the sky is not falling down but state money will be less than normal as a result of this. That is why Governor Herbert is trying desperately to get them to not withdraw. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=43137206&nid=148
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[FishingLunatic]

Show me where you're getting this 29,000 outdoor manufactures number. I looked on their press with the date you said and all they said they would honor their contract till 2018. They're the group but park of their group isn't attending. It doesn't say anything about your 29,000 number. I'm to lazy to count it right now but in fact, I can already look and see that this is less than 100 sponsors.
http://outdoorretailer.com/summer-market...3400.shtml
http://www.outdoorretailer.com/summer-ma...sors.shtml
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[Bovineowner]

Fishinglunatic I guess the thousands of ranching families in our state should have no say in how public lands are managed? To you, "having the best possible public lands" means my vote doesn't count? So a high end company that makes $400 vests using the down of unborn geese gets it's dander up over the Governor and our legislator standing up for the rights of multi-generational family ranches and that is fine with you? I am incredulous at your naïve attitude amigo. You are a millennial who has everything figured out and nobody can tell you otherwise. While I will continue to applaud your passion and enthusiasm, I am truly disappointed at your lack of understanding of rural issues and the negative effects bad land management policy have on the citizens of this state. And, ly, your career will directly effect those same folks you sure seem to have very little regard for. I encourage you to open your mind to those of us who have been around the block many times. You just might learn something.
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[FatBiker]

Bob, precisely my point. The cleaning station still isn't fixed after a bunch of folks led by you (thank you) brought it to their attention. They made promises, but never followed through and solved the problem. Why would anybody believe they will manage the federal lands appropriately when they can't even fix a fish cleaning station at one of their most popular state parks? As far as Town Hall meetings, in the past you were right. At this one, young Jason seemed astounded at the reception he received, especially when we started chanting, "Do you job." The little fella has to stand for reelection in two years. Might not be as easy as past elections. I'll give credit where credit is due. The left learned a lesson from the Tea Party activists in 2008 and 2009. Hopefully, we can keep some momentum going and make some well needed change on both sides of the aisle.



Larry
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[FishingLunatic]

I'm sorry Bovine Owner but no I don't think that public land management should be catered to a few thousand people compared to the actual state population of over 3 million. Beyond that 3 million living in the state, I believe public lands are for EVERYONE. I think management should reflect what's best for the majority of people and not a small group. When I'm in the position to, I want to visit other states national parks, monuments, and other public lands and I want other states to be able to see ours. That is not possible with what our state officials are trying to do. I still cringe today when I try to fly fish a river and have to wonder whether I'm on private property or not. Or even how I am restricted to what areas I'm allowed to fish on. My father wishes that we could fish places he used to. And by the way I know how expensive that land and even homes in that area are so don't try claiming to me that they are in a poor financial situation.

I still genuinely don't understand what some of you want allowed on public lands that isn't currently allowed. I don't know if some of you are trying to hide something specific that you want allowed because you're afraid of disapproval so you won't say it but the majority of what I've heard about complaints is allowed on federally managed public lands. As far as my future career goes, I'm going to do what I think is best. Maybe it really is impossible to make everyone happy. And I'm sorry but I don't think I'm naive. Number one, Those lands will get combinations of sold, privatized, and destroyed if our state officials get their way. Number two, People don't appreciate the work of our state more than the federal government, number three, it is impossible for the the states to manage all of our public lands.
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[sinergy]

Sorry to tell you Bovineowner but your grazing fee's will increase if Utah gains control to these Federal Lands. The Federal government currently spends between $200 and $300 million PER YEAR managing public lands in Utah, including fighting WILD FIRES.

So in your mind how do you think Utah is going to make up for the ANNUAL 200 to 300 million dollar shortfall.

Bottom line Utah will need to come up with 300 million dollars so you tell me how the state is going to make up for the shortages without selling, developing and increasing fee's on these lands.

Your posts are entitled you have no claim to these lands no matter what year your family squatted on them. Utah and its government doesn't care what date your family arrived nor will it abide by any local constitution many land owners already have seen Utah take there land from them.

Do the research take for example landowners who owned land around Jordenelle who had their land taken from them and many more ranchers like your self who lost land to the local government.
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[dubob]

[quote FatBiker]Bob, precisely my point. The cleaning station still isn't fixed after a bunch of folks led by you (thank you) brought it to their attention.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Minor point, I know, but the cleaning station is NOT going to be fixed. It's going to be replaced. Just a tad more involved and I expect (hope) it to take place this Spring.

I don't want to make excuses for Utah Parks Rec, but there are probably more than just Parks & Rec involved with a complete replacement and would account for some of the delays. It took the Feds 7 years to complete the new road from Brigham City out to the Bird Refuge proper because of inter-agency coordination (Federal, State & county agencies) and permit requirements and justifications.

When one researches and fully understands the complexity of State & Federal projects, one is less prone to criticizing management of said projects. I for one will give kudos to Officer Morgan and a couple others for doing the best they could on the cleaning station issue given the work environment and financial considerations they have to contend with on a daily basis. Unless you have walked a mile in thier shoes, you will never fully understand the path they have to walk.

And when 3 out of 29,000 participants pull out of an event (no matter how vocal they are about their withdrawal), it ain't a big deal. It will probably take a year or more before the Outdoor Retailers make a final decision about moving the 2 conventions they hold every year in SLC, and it could end up being SLC after all the dust settles.[/#][/font]
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]The show's will go on but the money that gets generated for the state will be drastically reduced because of decreased sponsors.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Bovine excrement of the highest odor. The $25 million the state gets is from each show period comes from the 29,000 vendors being here and buying lodging, food, and touring our area, NOT from sponsors. Three, 4, or 5 vendors pulling out involving probably less than 50 people will have diddly squat impact on that $25 million figure. And it damn sure IS a libtard (Democrap) versus conservative (Republican) issue. Earth to Lunitic; earth to Lunitic. Wake up and start living in the real world.

Oh, your link doesn't go to a page relevant to this subject.[/#][/font]
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]Show me where you're getting this 29,000 outdoor manufactures number.[/quote]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Who did your research a/o homework for you in school? [][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]My most humble apologies to one and all. I indicated earlier that the 29,000 attendee's came from the Outdoor Retailers press release when in fact it came from a KSL News article from last August which reported on the Summer 2016 show attendance. Here is the link to that article: [url "https://www.ksl.com/?sid=40905624&nid=148"]Outdoor Retailer event[/url].[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The Jan 2017 event was a little smaller at 22,000: [url "https://www.ksl.com/?sid=42802531&nid=148&title=outdoor-retailer-winter-event-brings-economic-boost-to-utah"]Outdoor Retailer winter event[/url].[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]As most of you that know me can attest, I don't post bogus data intentionally - ever. And if I do occasionally get it wrong and I'm shown that I'm wrong, then I own up to the mistake.[/#800000][/font]
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[FishingLunatic]

Thank you for admitting you sent me to the wrong source.

That being said, in your KSL link for the summer it says this: "An estimated 29,000 people are coming to Salt Lake City this week for the event, including outdoor industry manufacturers, retailers and suppliers responsible for more than $25 million in spending, according to data compiled by Visit Salt Lake".

Some of that is the retailers but most of that it is consumers from other states. If it was only manufacturers, retailers, or suppliers it wouldn't have said including. Also included in that number is individual people who work for retail companies ...each company sends more than one person to represent their company. We're not talking about number of retail, manufacturing, or supplying employees...we are talking about number of companies(not how many are within the company). This is from outdoor retailers website them self showing sponsors for their planned winter show, it shows 15 sponsors. http://outdoorretailer.com/summer-market/index.shtml
Also from their website specifically, This is the sponsors who will be there for their summer show. Coincidentally they also have 15 sponsors for the summer as well. http://outdoorretailer.com/summer-market/index.shtml

As for your KSL link in the winter, that 22,000 number is the number of workers; not companies (each company has a lot more than one sponsor). It's also important to understand that both of these shows described in both articles already happened. They don't have anything to do with future outdoor retailer shows which is what this topic was about. I agree with you based on their word that they're going to honor their 2018 contract and there will be a show. But their own website indicates there will be more like 15 sponsors(I have no idea how many people each sponsor will send to represent their company). The sales generated will be reduced through 2018 but they will likely be entirely eliminated after 2019 when the show will likely no longer be hosted in Utah.
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[FishingLunatic]

Dubob, once again that 29,000 number you're citing includes customers and number of employees, NOT companies. And I don't know what link you're saying isn't relevant but if those retailers dropping out wasn't a big deal then your hero Mike Lee wouldn't be trying to convince them to not withdraw.
https://www.ksl.com/...43137206&nid=148

And no this isn't a republican or liberal issue. People can be an overall republican but fight for at minimum disagree with with what our state officials are trying to do with public lands. The same could be said about overall democrats or liberals...they don't necessarily agree with everything that their democrat officials, senators, etc. believe or are trying to do. Personally I am disappointed and think that a lot of people like you are just looking and going "HEY THIS IS MIKE LEE, ORRIN HATCH, and ROB BISHOP who are republicans...because I'm overall republican I'm going to take their word or just support there stance on this topic since they're republican". Look, it just so happens that most democrat senators/officials/etc. don't want what Lee, Hatch, and Bishop are trying to do to happen. Whether you are a democrat or republican, worst comes to worst you should be saying screw them(our state officials, senators, etc.) and their personal beliefs...what I want to happen regarding public lands should have to do with what benefits me and the majority of people , not what any particular political party's senators and officials want.
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[fishgiver]

Bravo to FishingLunatic...
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[Bovineowner]

Sinergy I have done my best to be cordial and explain my side of this issue in very clear and precise terms. But I am done with that after reading the complete drivel you wrote to me! You are completely wrong and you have no idea what the hell you are talking about! You are probably some over-educated moron who has never done anything with your life but draw welfare. For you to imply that my family "squatted" on our land is ludicrous and you must be nuts! We have a legal deed to every acre we own and we OWN our grazing right. You wouldn't know whats its like to work for a living and to treasure the land and it's plant life! I have done more research on property rights and grazing than you will ever even attempt to do. I am done with you! You are clearly just another whiny piece of garbage who hates ranchers. You have zero credibility to me and I hope you realize how offensive and completely dishonest your asinine comments are. YOU ARE A LIAR IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!! IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH!

Ban me if you'd like moderators. But I will not stand back and be attacked by a dimwitted jackass who has no idea what he/she/it is talking about!

This post is meant squarely for Sinergy and is not intended for or aimed at fishinglunatic, Fatbiker or others who disagree with me in a civil way. For that POS to imply that our ranch was founded by "squatting" is totally unfounded and unethical. Sinergy is not worth anymore of my time and I kindly withdraw from this thread to spend time doing what I love instead of wallowing around with a pig! I wish the rest of you well. Sinergy can go to hell!
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[dubob]

[quote fishgiver]Bravo to FishingLunatic...[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]For what - telling us the sky is falling?[/#800000][/font]
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[dubob]

[quote Bovineowner]. . .dimwitted jackass who has no idea what he/she/it is talking about![/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Yeah, well, Sinergy ain't the only one we could name on here. [][/#800000][/font]
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