Utah lost Patagonia and likely other Outdoor Retailers

[FishingLunatic]

I don't think so [].
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]I don't think so [:p].[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000] [/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]You got one thing right - you don't think. [cool][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Let’s talk about the money first. There’s about $50 million left in Utah from 2 shows annually. That money comes from an estimated 51,000 people attending those two shows. The money is spent in Utah on lodging, food, entertainment, tourist attractions, etc. Sponsorship money is not normally part of that total. Sponsorship money goes directly to the organization putting on the show; in this case, Outdoor Retailers through the parent company of Emerald Expositions out of San Juan Capistrano, California. Sponsorship buys you advertising space on-line and in the printed program. It may, or may not, get you priority in floor spacing and/or increased floor space. But the Sponsorship money is not a direct benefit to Utah or Utah businesses.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Next, let’s look at the estimated people attending; 51,00 per year. Where do those numbers come from? From the stats on the 2016 Summer Show, we have 1,716 exhibiters. There were 64 Sponsors shown for those 1,716 exhibitors. The 1,716 exhibitors were comprised of 2,651 people. Along with that there were 6,330 retailers present with multiple persons registered by most of them. Your suggestion that because 5 Sponsors out of 64 (from 2016) so far have said they will not sponsor/attend in 2017, that the this will cost Utah a major money loss. That is 100%, pure bovine excrement of the highest odor. Since none of the sponsorship money is a direct benefit to Utah, then the only loss will be from the 50 or so people that work for those five companies and won’t be here to spend any money locally. End of story.[/#800000][/font]
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]2. If you really think state management of public lands is currently better than federal management, do you think that the state could maintain their "higher standard or quality" of management if they theoretically inherited all of the federal public lands?[/quote][font "Times New Roman"] [/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Let’s take a look at state vs federal land management for just one specific use; ice fishing. For comparison, let’s look at both federal and state venues. All are in the northern region of Utah and are used heavily during the winter months by people ice fishing. On the Federal side you have Pineview and Strawberry; on the State side you have Hyrum, Willard Bay, East Canyon, & Rockport.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]All 4 of these State parks have their launch area parking lots fully plowed and available for public use 24/7. Pineview has two launch areas and Strawberry has 4 to the best of my knowledge. Of the six available, only one is plowed and that is solely because there is privately run business that remains open 365 days a year at Strawberry Bay Marina and they are footing the bill or at least part of it to keep the Marina open in the winter time. The rest aren’t maintained at all which says screw the public from the Federal Government. It’s clear to me and a whole lot of other folks that the State is doing one Hell of a lot better managing their land in Utah than the Federal Government is.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The Feds don’t give a rats behind about serving John Q Public. They think they have a higher purpose – whatever the Hell that is. We need more Federal intrusion in Utah like we need another hole in our heads.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]There are other areas of comparison that will show similar results, but presenting them is both time consuming and tiresome and my time would be better spent planning my next adventure on the ice or in a duck blind.[/#800000][/font]
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[sinergy]

Yawn, your entire post is a whine and cry not a single rebuttal on how Utah is going to pay for the annual 300 million dollar shortfall, just some gibberish emotional rant.

I actually started to write out a few paragraphs addressing everyone of your rants then thought why ? whats the point ? If your someone who flies off the handle at a post on the internet then you neither rational nor intelligent.

Think about it every argument that's made is implausible nor is there evidence of the fact. Just typing on keyboard. But your demeanor of getting in a rage is very apparent and person who rages over an internet posting one needs ask themselves am I a sane person. Id offer the advice to stay off the internet. I can only imaging what would happen if a person in real life where to approached you.

What I find comedic is one post and you lost all composure making yourself look like a complete ass.
Maybe next time take a deep breath use some intellect and type an intelligent rebuttal.

But now that I address your temper tantrum back to the subject at hand

So Again I ask how do you think the state is going to make up for a ANNUAL 300 million dollar shortfall without Mining\Fracking, Selling, or developing it. ???


Oh and heres a fun fact for you Bovine

"oil and gas royalties would never be sufficient to cover the state’s costs.However, the state would have access to other revenue streams such as coal royalties oil, gas and coal rents and bonus payments and other land-based revenues" : Direct for the PLI


And what do you think are those "Other Land based Revenues".. Hmmm grazing fee's ...


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[sinergy]

Interesting analogy, but you do realize the state did a year long analysis, involving multiple agencies and using a million dollars to survey exactly this question.

its published and readily available
Maybe you should read it and get some insight how the state reflects on your answer.

I find all this very comical one needs ask without even knowing how the state is going to represent the land to the public do your arguments even have a foot to stand on. LOL

Oh and here a fun fact for you BLM, Forest Service and FWS support almost 5,000 Utah jobs. With the PLI those jobs will be on hook. With the immediate withdrawal of funds from the Feds the question remains will all 5000 jobs be available.

Geez I hope those people get to fish those plowed roads before there jobs get slashed.
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[FishingLunatic]

I guess I didn't think when I graduated in the top 10% of my class and was a member of the National Honors Society for Leadership and Success. Dubob I would like know your education history. Any claim you make above high school, I would need to see your transcripts just like I would love to see Donald Trump's tax returns.

I'm with sinergy. All your points are either lies, insignificant, or have literally nothing to do with the topic we're talking about. First, you tried lying saying there was 22,000 or how ever many sponsors and then I exposed that bs. Now your trying to talk about 2016 shows when things were different then. Earth to Dubob, sponsors change every year...I'm not even gonna bother verifying anything u said is true this time but even assuming so, it's not the same every year and people weren't talking about dropping out of the show in 2016. Your full of B.S. If we go with your number of 6,330 retailers and divide it by your number of 64 sponsors then that means there is an average of almost 99 retailers per sponsor. Therefore your assertion that only 50 less retailers will be there is BS. 99*5(how many have dropped out so far)=495. 495 is a far more accurate estimate for how many less retailers there will be. And BEYOND WHICH, this ISN'T 2016. THERE WILL NOT BE 64 SPONSORS. THERE WILL BE 15 FOR EACH SHOW. Bottom line...Utah will be surviving...not thriving.

By the way, your silly assertions about these ice fishing spots are stupid and have nothing to do with federal or state management. You travel on STATE roads to get to federal or state managed recreation sites. First of all, the road to East Canyon is not plowed for the way I take to get to it in the Summer. Secondly, almost every state park you take highways like U.S 40 OR I-80. They're plowed because those are major highways...it has nothing to do with federal vs. state management. If you want to play that silly game then I'll say that the state is doing a horrible job managing their waters compared to the feds. Quagga mussels and any other aquatic invasive species(burbot, northern pike, bass, lake trout, carp, etc.) related problems are far more severe in state managed watershed areas than federally managed watershed areas. I hope you and other people reading this understand how stupid both what you said about the road plowing, and what I said about aquatic invasive species is. These are problems that literally have nothing to do with state and federal management. Yours are major highways and mine is because of stupid and irresponsible recreationist behavior.

By the way, please describe and explain what I'm looking at?
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[dubob]

[quote sinergy]Interesting analogy, but you do realize the state did a year long analysis, involving multiple agencies and using a million dollars to survey exactly this question. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]And what question would that be? I don't read minds; therefore I have no clue as to what question to which you refer.[/#800000][/font]

its published and readily available
Maybe you should read it and get some insight how the state reflects on your answer. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]If you want me to read it, maybe you should post a link. I'm not interested enough in anything you say to make the effort.[/#800000][/font]

I find all this very comical one needs ask without even knowing how the state is going to represent the land to the public do your arguments even have a foot to stand on. LOL

Oh and here a fun fact for you BLM, Forest Service and FWS support almost 5,000 Utah jobs. With the PLI those jobs will be on hook. With the immediate withdrawal of funds from the Feds the question remains will all 5000 jobs be available.

Geez I hope those people get to fish those plowed roads before there jobs get slashed.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]God, but your boring. Suppositions, conjecture, and false news all rolled into one. No data, no facts; just gibberish and suggestions to go on wild goose chases looking for data you're to lazy or to illiterate to post. Yep, Bovineowner has you pegged. A crybaby libtard with no real sense about how the real world actually works. And by the way, just so you don't try to auger holes into the asphalt or concrete in those roads - you fish the lakes the roads lead to, not the roads themselves. But then, I'm never surprised at the stupid ideas libtards come up with on a regular basis.[/#800000][/font]
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[FishingLunatic]

BovineOwner, I don't want to push your buttons but when you have time, I would like your opinion on this brief excerpt that pertains to your profession of ranching.
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[sinergy]

Typical narrow minded response, "he's lying, "he cheating" wah wah wah LOL

The quotes are directly posted from the states analysis so believe in what you want the information is there and published to the public The analysis was paid by Utah ( the same people whom you are supporting) and done by the U of U, Weber State, Utah State and more.

The only reason I dont post the link is I enjoy reading your crazy posts and laughing at you and bovine making these crazy assumptions and raging at your pc's. [pirate]
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]I guess I didn't think when I graduated in the top 10% of my class and was a member of the National Honors Society for Leadership and Success. Dubob I would like know your education history. Any claim you make above high school, I would need to see your transcripts just like I would love to see Donald Trump's tax returns.

I'm with sinergy. All your points are either lies, insignificant, or have literally nothing to do with the topic we're talking about. First, you tried lying saying there was 22,000 or how ever many sponsors and then I exposed that bs. Now your trying to talk about 2016 shows when things were different then. Earth to Dubob, sponsors change every year...I'm not even gonna bother verifying anything u said is true this time but even assuming so, it's not the same every year and people weren't talking about dropping out of the show in 2016. Your full of B.S. If we go with your number of 6,330 retailers and divide it by your number of 64 sponsors then that means there is an average of almost 99 retailers per sponsor. Therefore your assertion that only 50 less retailers will be there is BS. 99*5(how many have dropped out so far)=495. 495 is a far more accurate estimate for how many less retailers there will be. And BEYOND WHICH, this ISN'T 2016. THERE WILL NOT BE 64 SPONSORS. THERE WILL BE 15 FOR EACH SHOW. Bottom line...Utah will be surviving...not thriving.

By the way, your silly assertions about these ice fishing spots are stupid and have nothing to do with federal or state management. You travel on STATE roads to get to federal or state managed recreation sites. First of all, the road to East Canyon is not plowed for the way I take to get to it in the Summer. Secondly, almost every state park you take highways like U.S 40 OR I-80. They're plowed because those are major highways...it has nothing to do with federal vs. state management. If you want to play that silly game then I'll say that the state is doing a horrible job managing their waters compared to the feds. Quagga mussels and any other aquatic invasive species(burbot, northern pike, bass, lake trout, carp, etc.) related problems are far more severe in state managed watershed areas than federally managed watershed areas. I hope you and other people reading this understand how stupid both what you said about the road plowing, and what I said about aquatic invasive species is. These are problems that literally have nothing to do with state and federal management. Yours are major highways and mine is because of stupid and irresponsible recreationist behavior.

By the way, please describe and explain what I'm looking at?[/quote]
[quote FishingLunatic]I guess I didn't think when I graduated in the top 10% of my class and was a member of the National Honors Society for Leadership and Success. Dubob I would like know your education history. Any claim you make above high school, I would need to see your transcripts just like I would love to see Donald Trump's tax returns.

I'm with sinergy. All your points are either lies, insignificant, or have literally nothing to do with the topic we're talking about. First, you tried lying saying there was 22,000 or how ever many sponsors and then I exposed that bs. Now your trying to talk about 2016 shows when things were different then. Earth to Dubob, sponsors change every year...I'm not even gonna bother verifying anything u said is true this time but even assuming so, it's not the same every year and people weren't talking about dropping out of the show in 2016. Your full of B.S. If we go with your number of 6,330 retailers and divide it by your number of 64 sponsors then that means there is an average of almost 99 retailers per sponsor. Therefore your assertion that only 50 less retailers will be there is BS. 99*5(how many have dropped out so far)=495. 495 is a far more accurate estimate for how many less retailers there will be. And BEYOND WHICH, this ISN'T 2016. THERE WILL NOT BE 64 SPONSORS. THERE WILL BE 15 FOR EACH SHOW. Bottom line...Utah will be surviving...not thriving.

By the way, your silly assertions about these ice fishing spots are stupid and have nothing to do with federal or state management. You travel on STATE roads to get to federal or state managed recreation sites. First of all, the road to East Canyon is not plowed for the way I take to get to it in the Summer. Secondly, almost every state park you take highways like U.S 40 OR I-80. They're plowed because those are major highways...it has nothing to do with federal vs. state management. If you want to play that silly game then I'll say that the state is doing a horrible job managing their waters compared to the feds. Quagga mussels and any other aquatic invasive species(burbot, northern pike, bass, lake trout, carp, etc.) related problems are far more severe in state managed watershed areas than federally managed watershed areas. I hope you and other people reading this understand how stupid both what you said about the road plowing, and what I said about aquatic invasive species is. These are problems that literally have nothing to do with state and federal management. Yours are major highways and mine is because of stupid and irresponsible recreationist behavior.

By the way, please describe and explain what I'm looking at?[/quote]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Like I said before kid - grow up before you try to play with the adults. Trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to an autistic 2-year old. I lied about nothing. Just because you don't have the skills or intelligence to understand factual data doesn't mean nobody else does. Any adult understands the facts and points I made.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I have a BSEE degree from Weber State and had a 3.92 GPA in my major. I have no clue what percentile I ended up in and don't care. I was employed immediately upon graduating and had to pick from 5 offers. I was given an annual salary that was a record at the time for a Weber State BS graduate from ANY field of study. That salary record stood for over 12 years. My education and life experience so far exceeds anything you can lay claim to, yours isn't even on the same chart. Grow up kid. You're beginning to boar me.[/#800000][/font]
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[dubob]

[quote sinergy]Typical narrow minded response, "he's lying, "he cheating" wah wah wah LOL

The quotes are directly posted from the states analysis so believe in what you want the information is there and published to the public The analysis was paid by Utah ( the same people whom you are supporting) and done by the U of U, Weber State, Utah State and more.

The only reason I dont post the link is I enjoy reading your crazy posts and laughing at you and bovine making these crazy assumptions and raging at your pc's. [pirate][/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Yeah, I'm raging all right! Bovine. you having as much fun as I am from this clown? God, he's a hoot.[/#800000][/font]
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[FishingLunatic]

Haha old man I don't know if I believe you or if I even care. Your supposed degree is about engineering and mine is directly related to the topic of public lands. And guess what? I'm not done with school. I'll have my masters or phD in a few years. You were defeated with every lie or misrepresentation that you tried fooling this forum with. I would love to meet you in real life. You haven't had a good response to any of what I've previously said or my most recent post. Haha how does it feel that your days are coming to to an end? How does it feel that that when your time comes you won't be swimming with the fish in the sky? You'll be in a lake filled with oil? How does it feel that I'm in my prime and that I'm the future? You've been paying attention to what I've been posting so obviously you feel threatened. Unlike you, I know how to spell bore and I'll correctly use it in a sentence. You bore me and I'm done with you. I love how worried about the future you must be since you won't be around and since I'm apparently such a terrible person LOL! Go to bed old man. [bobsleeping]
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[dubob]

[quote FishingLunatic]Haha old man I don't know if I believe you or if I even care. Your supposed degree is about engineering and mine is directly related to the topic of public lands. And guess what? I'm not done with school. I'll have my masters or phD in a few years. You were defeated with every lie or misrepresentation that you tried fooling this forum with. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Oh the shame and humility of it all; how will I ever be able to deal with it?[/#800000][/font] I would love to meet you in real life. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Why, are you that much in need of a verbal butt whippin'?[/#800000][/font] You haven't had a good response to any of what I've previously said or my most recent post. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Yeah, probably so since truth and facts don't have any relevance in your world.[/#800000][/font] Haha how does it feel that your days are coming to to an end? How does it feel that that when your time comes you won't be swimming with the fish in the sky? You'll be in a lake filled with oil? How does it feel that I'm in my prime and that I'm the future? [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]That people of your ilk are the future disgusts me beyond belief.[/#800000][/font] You've been paying attention to what I've been posting so obviously you feel threatened. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Oh, woe is me; I'm cowering in fear right this minute.[/#800000][/font] Unlike you, I know how to spell bore and I'll correctly use it in a sentence. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Unlike you, I know how to use truth and facts and I'll correctly use them in a forum. [/#800000][/font]You bore me and I'm done with you. I love how worried about the future you must be since you won't be around and since I'm apparently such a terrible person LOL! [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I'm wringing my hands and sweating bullets just thinking about it.[/#800000][/font] Go to bed old man. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Go back to the sand box kid and leave the intelligent discussions to the adults on here.[/#800000][/font][/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The child Lunatic has spoken; I'm shaking in my boots. I better just go lay down and wait to die.[/#800000][/font]
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[dubob]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]And then there's this from an ADULT libtard:[/#800000][/font]
[quote]New Hampshire Democratic Party Chair Raymond Buckley had a strong yet simple message for fellow Democrats at a DNC Future Forum in Baltimore: "The party did not author a positive message during the 2016 election cycle. What we did is say, 'How offensive.' Grow up, that's not reality for most of America."[font "Times New Roman"][/qu[/font]ote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The adults actually do know what the real world is all about. Lunatic children do not! [][/#800000][/font]
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[sinergy]

Dont indulge Dubob its a scientific fact that Brain shrinks as you get older this is well documented fact by the Harvard journal of medicine, And the Oxford University Press the grey matter in Hippocampus decreases 13% and the White matter in the Frontal Lobe shrinks 24%.

Hippocampus is Memory learning and emotion the Frontal Lobe emotional expression, problem solving, memory, language, judgment,

By Age 74 areas like memory problem solving judgement and learning have a drastic decrease and Cognitive and motor stills rapidly decline

So arguing with a 74 year old is pointless Im surprised he even remembers what he posted. [angelic]
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[dubob]

[quote sinergy]Dont indulge Dubob its a scientific fact that Brain shrinks as your get older this is well documented fact by the Harvard journal of medicine, And the Oxford University Press the grey matter in Hippocampus decreases 13% and the White matter in the Frontal Lobe shrinks 24%.

Hippocampus is Memory learning and emotion the Frontal Lobe emotional expression, problem solving, memory, language, judgment,

By Age 74 areas like memory problem solving judgement and learning have a drastic decreased.Cognitive and motor stills rapidly decline

So arguing with a 74 year old is pointless Im surprised he'll even remembers what he posted. [angelic][/quote][font "Times New Roman"] [/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]“The wise man questions the wisdom of others because he questions his own, the foolish man, because it is different from his own.” Leo Stein.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]You and the lunatic child most assuredly fall into the later class. Good luck to both of you in life with that attitude; you’re going to need it. [cool][/#800000][/font]
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[sinergy]

DuBob dont take it personal its the Internet, everyone talks crap on the internet. This is the reason I dont post in this forum or any internet forum that much any more. Plus Id rather spend time outdoors than sitting in front of my computer.

Regardless of our difference in opinion about land, water or what else we as a human race will always have a difference of opinion thats what make us human. The ability to have consciousness and to form thought
But that doesn't mean we need to be at a constant conflict live and let live and do what makes you happy are my mottos in life.

Tight Lines to you.
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[dubob]

[quote sinergy]DuBob dont take it personal its the Internet, everyone talks crap on the internet. This is the reason I dont post in this forum or any internet forum that much any more. Plus Id rather spend time outdoors than sitting in front of my computer.

Regardless of our difference in opinion about land, water or what else we as a human race will always have a difference of opinion thats what make us human. The ability to have consciousness and to form thought
But that doesn't mean we need to be at a constant conflict live and let live and do what makes you happy are my mottos in life.

Tight Lines to you.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Apology accepted! Wink! [] Wink! []

Now if the kid will just stop trying to play with the adults, we'd all be happy. [cool]
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[buckhunterhart]

I think all of us old people can take solace in this attached meme of wisdom.
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[dubob]

[quote buckhunterhart]I think all of us old people can take solace in this attached meme of wisdom.[/quote][]
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