Scofield. M.O.T.S.S.

[chuckbigflies]

I also wonder how the tiger muskies will do at that elevation? The ideal temperature for tigers is 68-75 degrees so their rapid growing period may be short lived each year. Only time will tell as they only began planting these in 2017.
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[k2muskie]

I have to say an interesting conversation by the same folks.

I for one learned long ago learned get involved and do what you can being proactive and involved. I attempt to live by that, have I made mistakes oh heck yea. So with that being said:

I've been informally and formally (invited to attend meeting) hosted by the DNR and DWR fishing biologists. I listen and provide constructive input as an angler. I remain upbeat and positive at what these folks are doing and plans they are working.

Per info at a recent meeting and working with state officials I've been able to gather info from them and also being proactive have provided them with meaningful feedback.

They are making a difference at Scofield. Now the nay-sayers want instant gratification maybe listen and be involved would be my recommendation and do what you can. Stand back and look in the mirror: what are you doing to help, what constructive feedback do you provide with justifiable rationale. Heck maybe change your bait and big fish like bigger baits. Just my recommendation.

Here's info I want to share WRT Scofield after a recent meeting I attended with email follow up questions to the DWR folks over this awesome body of water that I look forward to fishing soon:

"Scofield, tiger muskies were up to 27" this fall and we netted a wiper that was 14" and very robust. That wiper was an overwintered fish. We also netted 40 wiper between 4-6" that were stocked in May at about 1.5". Chub numbers continue to trend down and their size structure is going up. This is good news. We also stocked 20,000 12"+ rainbows that anglers appear to be catching. So all in all things are going very well up there."

Finally I've attached photos and here is a link to a video on the October 5 gill netting they did. Folks things take time and for me I'll side on time as killing off a body of water well as Einstein so accurately said it if one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results its insanity. Along with wasting time and money for us now. I'll give Scofield time as I'm not about doing the same thing expecting different results. I also have seen on this Forum and throughout various other Social Media sites...well folks are appearing happy with Scofield and having fun with their families, kids, and grandkids.

Here is a link to a video that was shared with me on Scofield and I hope the link works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFfVbymdCY
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[Fishrmn]

[quote chuckbigflies]I also wonder how the tiger muskies will do at that elevation? The ideal temperature for tigers is 68-75 degrees so their rapid growing period may be short lived each year. Only time will tell as they only began planting these in 2017.[/quote]

Time will tell. They've done okay at Fish Lake and Johnson Reservoir. The UDWR has no plans to do anything different for at least another 4 years.



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[PBH]

[quote Fishrmn]
Time will tell. ... The UDWR has no plans to do anything different for at least another 4 years.

[/quote]


So, in another 4 years there is a chance that we could be where we could have been this year by using rotenone?



I don't get the "doing the same thing over and getting the same results" argument.

Rotenone it. Restock with tiger musky, wiper, blue cats, and trout (and whatever else you want). How is that doing the same thing over?


I'll never understand the "let's wait" plan. Why wait when you can have better by acting now?


I guess that's what I get for never getting involved. [laugh]
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[k2muskie]

FWIW there is an issue with Johnson Reservoir with water elevation as it gets drained and becomes a murky mud puddle. Next Tiger Muskies are NOT stocked in Fish Lake they make their way to Fish Lake from Johnson.

Now with the above being said Tiger Muskies in Joes Valley are doing very well and that is cold water. Per data I've seen and researched that is a good thing colder water.

Finally at PV Tiger Muskies are doing okay even in the warmer water and per the fin ray samples are living to 11 years and that's warmer water. The DWR is working with USU on fin rays from JV and hoping for that info soon as it's believed the colder the water the longer TM will live.

In the Basin area tiger muskies are doing okay and helping eliminate the carp issue that eventually and hopefully will help downstream with Pelican.
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[Northman]

Bingo! There were chubs in the lake in small numbers before the 8 fish limit. But there were enough 4 to 5 pound Cutthroat and 3 to 4 pound rainbows that kept them in check.

The DWR had this spectacular idea that Scofield could handle over 2X's the fishing hours that it was currently getting . So the plan was to make the reservoir a fishery where you could "Come fill up the cooler" to incentavise more anglers to use the lake. The large trout numbers were depleted and the smaller trout were caught then taken home in coolers before they could grow to a predatory size. The chubs filled the void and quickly overran the Reservoir.


To me personally this is why it is so frustrating getting told the same story year after year after year. The initial mistake of the 8 fish limit was most likely done in good faith that Scofield could handle the additional fishing pressure and more anglers could enjoy the resource. But the way they are dragging their feet with "The Long Game" and "Cost Effective" solution is not acceptable. The "resource" is without question under utilized now and has been for over a decade. And there is a cost of lost revenue to running with a under utilized Scofield that needs to be considered as a offset to a rotenone treatment. That $$$ number has never been addressed and is very relevant!


In my opinoin the biggest obstacle to doing a rotenone treatment on Scofield is not the price tag. I believe it has a lot more to do with saving face than the money. The DWR needs to come to grips with-

1) The 8 fish limit was a mistake.

2) What they have done the last 10+ years has not worked and just prolonged the inevitable.
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[Fishrmn]

And they used rotenone at Pelican. Same process, same results?



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[k2muskie]

Way bigger issue at Pelican then Chubs. Be involved and you’ll know the ENTIRE story on Pelican.
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[Northman]

Really?

1) The extensive state wide survey that was done that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of anglers wanted to retonone Scofield.
2) And the number 1 recommendation from the biologist was to retonone Scofield.(for many years)

Thats not enough, and what is really required is to work your way into closed door meetings and tell the executives what they want to hear?

Sounds more like "Lobbying" than getting involved...
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[Fishrmn]

My point being, you could just put Tiger Muskies and Wipers in Pelican and give it 20 or 30 years. Or you could do what they've done. Poison, replant, and add the predators.



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[Fishrmn]

[quote Northman]Really?

1) The extensive state wide survey that was done that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of anglers wanted to retonone Scofield.
2) And the number 1 recommendation from the biologist was to retonone Scofield.(for many years)

Thats not enough, and what is really required is to work your way into closed door meetings and tell the executives what they want to hear?

Sounds more like "Lobbying" than getting involved...[/quote]


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[k2muskie]

Hahaha No lobbying on my part as I don’t lobby. Folks who know me know I don’t play reindeer games. I’ll speak my mind no yelling or screaming I’ll provide justifiable rationale. Plus I’ll do research and provide constructive feedback as an angler.

I do LISTEN and that’s an Art many don’t have now a days. It’s their way and the past with same results even though the results will be the same. There’s no closed meeting with DWR or DNR that I know of. Again as I’ve said, it’s being involved and doing what one can. It’s providing justifiable rational and not whining I’m an angler not a biologist I’ll educa myself the best I can. Be patient grasshoppers good things will happen things take time. Get involved is my recommendation and that’s what I strive to do.

Go out catch fish and have fun with family and friends!!![]
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[Kent]

[quote k2muskie]

Folks things take time and for me I'll side on time as killing off a body of water well as Einstein so accurately said it if one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results its insanity. Along with wasting time and money for us now. I'll give Scofield time as I'm not about doing the same thing expecting different results.

[url "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFfVbymdCY[/quote]"][/quote][/url]

What is it called when one keeps writing the same thing, over and over, knowing that is not what we have said should be done? Poison it many years ago and plant with a variety of fish including predators and institute slot limits similar to Strawberry and Pineview (if tiger muskies are part of the mix). Tell me the last time that was done at Scofield? I'll provide you the answer, "Never". Seems to be working just fine at Strawberry. Strawberry was poisoned in 1990 and 28 years later the chubs are under control and trophy fish are being caught and few if any are snakes.
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[PBH]

[quote k2muskie]... I’ll provide justifiable rationale. Plus I’ll do research and provide constructive feedback as an angler.

I do LISTEN and that’s an Art many don’t have now a days. [/quote]

Followed by this:

[quote k2muskie]It’s their way and the past with same results even though the results will be the same. ...[/quote]

Again followed by this:

[quote k2muskie] It’s providing justifiable rational ...[/quote]


hmmmmm......something doesn't add up.


FWIW -- rotenone treatments have worked every single time they have been used. Every time. Without fail. What fails is the anglers who fail to understand the management plans associated with past treatments. Many past treatments were simply done on a regular basis as part of an ongoing plan. There was nothing wrong with that.

Today, nobody is asking for an ongoing regularly scheduled rotenone treatment. What we want is a better plan following a treatment. Those plans have been outlined numerous times -- and they would work. The problem with rotenone is not money. The problem is ignorance, or a lack of education and understanding. Anglers cry "foul!" whenever rotenone is brought up (as well as other groups). It scares them. It shouldn't. It's a great tool.


But, what do I know. I never use justifiable rationale. I play reindeer games. I never listen. And i ask for the same thing, over and over.



you guys keep being patient. Let's see how long this takes.
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[Lonnie]

I agree , Joes Valley is a very good comparison. As mentioned the muskies are doing very well there ( and the over populated chubs are disappearing in comparison to 7-8 years ago) Also the cuthroats and splake and occasional rainbow are showing up in trophy sizes. This despite very little stocking until recently. And now I see stocking is happening again in greater numbers. Joes valley seems to really be on an upswing for quality fishing. The process has taken about 10 years now since the management plan.
Scofeild , with its awesome feed and growth rate has a chance to become a premier trophy fishery in the state in the next few years. Poisoning has happened 3 times since the 70's with very short term success. (Even though predatory cuts were stocked soon after treatment)
The DWR made no secret that this would be a 8-10 year process when the current plan was implemented, Its been 2 years... Give it due process
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[Fishrmn]

Joes Valley is also nearly a ghost town. Too far from the Wasatch Front to be utilized by very many anglers. I check the camera quite often. I've never seen a boat.
If those cutts and splake and Tiger Muskies were being caught instead of living out their days in peace and quiet, it might be a different story. And again, why wait? Why wait with empty State Park facilities? What has been, and what will be the net loss of revenue at Scofield?


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[Fishrmn]

And while it has been two years of the New Plan, it has been 18 years of dealing with chubs in Scofield for this invasion.



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[Lonnie]

Your right, It has been 18 years of shoulda coulda woulda. But funding approval was an issue due to prev failures. The biological approach has just been becoming a recent idea ( at least with the use of TM and other frankinfish) But is working ,and better in the long run I believe.
I know they could have done a reboot (poison) then managed like now , and probably spead up the process ( Which was my suggestion in the survey a couple years back) But for whatever reason , the currant method was chosen. (Maybe for future management ideas on other waters) At any rate at this point theres no use crying over spilled milk as they say. Lets let it run its coarse for 3-5 more years and see if we have the success joes valley has had.
As for Joes Valley, I fished it 4 times this year , and there was no shortage of fishermen at all. On one trip I visited with 4 different groups of fishermen from 4 different states who came there(not together) specifically to target the trophy TM. Having fished JV since the dam was built in 1969 That is something that would have never happened before the current management plan.
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[ice_sled]

Bump👍
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[PBH]

[quote Lonnie]Your right, It has been 18 years of shoulda coulda woulda. But funding approval was an issue due to prev failures..[/quote]

This is not true. Funding is only an issue if the funding is not budgeted. Through propper planning, funding is available. Further, past treatments were not failures! They worked! They were part of a plan that included a cycle of treatments followed by a few years of good fishing, then some bad, then another treatment. It was part of the plan, and it worked. The managment plan failed when treatments stopped -- which was probably due to high costs of frequent treatments.




[quote Lonnie] The biological approach has just been becoming a recent idea ( at least with the use of TM and other frankinfish) But is working ,and better in the long run I believe.[/quote]

It isn't a new idea. But, you are correct that it is a better management strategy that does work better in the long run. However, it needs a "kick start". You can't just go dump a bunch of fish on top of an overpopulated bunch of chubs and expect results.

[quote Lonnie] I know they could have done a reboot (poison) then managed like now , and probably spead up the process ( Which was my suggestion in the survey a couple years back) [/quote]

Many of us know this. Even the biologists know this.


[quote Lonnie] But for whatever reason , the currant method was chosen. [/quote]

The reason is simple: public outcry. Rotenone is never the popular choice. People come out of the woodworks to fight rotenone because it is a chemical that kills all aquatic life in the target water. This is never a popular choice -- even if it the correct choice. If managers don't go about planning properly, this choice gets shot down by the uneducated public before it can ever get to the table! So, we see compromises. Unfortunately, compromise doesn't usually mean that both sides end up happy -- rather, both sides cave to a solution that neither are happy with. So we end up with an 18 year long, and counting, problem that doesn't seem to be coming to a good solution any time soon.

[quote Lonnie] At any rate at this point theres no use crying over spilled milk as they say. Lets let it run its coarse for 3-5 more years and see if we have the success joes valley has had.[/quote]

No problem. I'm fine with letting it run it's course. But I'm not going to pretend to be happy about this course, or the predicted results. I'll also cheer the day that they come back and say "we've done this long enough. It's time to do something about this issue".

FWIW -- I honestly hope the wipers work. That is the key to this whole issue. they are the fish that will knock the chub population down. The cutts won't do it and the TM's won't do it. Both cutts and tm's will utilize them, but they won't control them. Wipers will. So the success, or failure, of this plan all depends on whether or not wipers can thrive at this elevation. If they can, then we should have good things happen at Scofield, and other mid to high elevation lakes across Utah. If they fail.......well, we all already know what happens if they fail.


[quote Lonnie] As for Joes Valley, I fished it 4 times this year , and there was no shortage of fishermen at all. On one trip I visited with 4 different groups of fishermen from 4 different states who came there(not together) specifically to target the trophy TM. Having fished JV since the dam was built in 1969 That is something that would have never happened before the current management plan.[/quote]


I haven't fished Joe's Valley since 2010.

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