Stay Safe Stay Home

[TT600]

They just closed all NF in Oregon and Washington.  Their governors are total dirt bags but if all of those people show up in a few weeks we are screwed.

[dubob]

I'm not directing this to any one individual; just general comments to anybody who cares.

We are living in very perilous times right now.  Our Federal, state, & local government officials, for the most part, are taking positive measures to try and stay ahead of this current crisis.  So far, they are succeeding and we (the USA) are coping far better than a majority of the rest of the world on a percentage of population basis.

We aren't going to like most of the restrictions being placed on us, and some, less intelligent folks, are just going to completely ignore the recommended and/or mandated restrictions to our basic freedoms.  As the new public announcements and commercials we are seeing every day now say, we ARE all in this together.  This is serious stuff folks.  There is a bigger picture here besides the minor interruptions to our daily routines.  And come on - they ARE minor interruptions.

The positive for most of us is the likelihood that if we follow the guidelines and recommendations, we will still be enjoying quality time with our loved ones and friends for many years to come.  The negative is that if we don't, more of us will die earlier than expected.  So, where are your priorities?  Should we all just ignore the consensus from the experts that we really need to buckle down and defeat this crisis NOW, or do we go for some instant gratification?  Or should we take their advice, follow the guidelines, and just maybe get to spend more of our future with friends and family?

To have the 'instant gratification' attitude that leads you to say/think, "Screw 'em, I'm going to do it anyway!", is moronic; and yes, I AM calling you a moron if that is your attitude.  This crisis will be beat regardless of the morons.  The amount of time it takes to beat it will depend, in large measure, on how many of us pull together vs how many of us continue to be morons.  So, it's attitude adjustment time folks.  Please reconsider being that moron.  You and our country will be better off if you do.

Thanks for listening; I'm stepping down off the box now.    

[Bduck]

I myself have been hunkered down for 2wks now yet today I must do some shopping for essentials and then back to the next month isolated with a possible essential mission somewhere. Also been seeing on the news how some governors on the east coast are closing their borders to out of state none residents. This is appearing to a possibility of a challenge under the constitution of the United States and the 14th Amendment.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I have no idea how this will effect or pan out to those powers to be and those who enforce laws within our own state boundaries. COVID-19 is not something we need and to get a handle on it we should stay isolated keeping our families as safe as we can. I have 2 sons with their families living in Sacramento which we are praying that this virus doesn't strike them.

BE WELL & BE SAFE TOO ALL

[gofish435]

I'm not directing this to any one individual; just general comments to anybody who cares.

We are living in very perilous times right now.  Our Federal, state, & local government officials, for the most part, are taking positive measures to try and stay ahead of this current crisis.  So far, they are succeeding and we (the USA) are coping far better than a majority of the rest of the world on a percentage of population basis.

We aren't going to like most of the restrictions being placed on us, and some, less intelligent folks, are just going to completely ignore the recommended and/or mandated restrictions to our basic freedoms.  As the new public announcements and commercials we are seeing every day now say, we ARE all in this together.  This is serious stuff folks.  There is a bigger picture here besides the minor interruptions to our daily routines.  And come on - they ARE minor interruptions.

The positive for most of us is the likelihood that if we follow the guidelines and recommendations, we will still be enjoying quality time with our loved ones and friends for many years to come.  The negative is that if we don't, more of us will die earlier than expected.  So, where are your priorities?  Should we all just ignore the consensus from the experts that we really need to buckle down and defeat this crisis NOW, or do we go for some instant gratification?  Or should we take their advice, follow the guidelines, and just maybe get to spend more of our future with friends and family?

To have the 'instant gratification' attitude that leads you to say/think, "Screw 'em, I'm going to do it anyway!", is moronic; and yes, I AM calling you a moron if that is your attitude.  This crisis will be beat regardless of the morons.  The amount of time it takes to beat it will depend, in large measure, on how many of us pull together vs how many of us continue to be morons.  So, it's attitude adjustment time folks.  Please reconsider being that moron.  You and our country will be better off if you do.

Thanks for listening; I'm stepping down off the box now.    

[Anglinarcher]

I remember a statement in one of the Star Wars Movies, the one where the Sith Emperor got power.

The phrase, as I remember it, is 'I always wondered how freedom would end, I see it is with thunderous applause'!

I understand Bob's concerns, and others, but I also try to put things in perspective.  I have a strong background in medicene, a super strong background in Science, a very long background in engineering and "Government Project Management" so I know the "drill".

I will not pontificate on the subject, but I will tell you that the truth when Government speaks is almost always somewhere in the middle.

I fear that my understanding of the problem is better then what is being reported.  I have told my wife, who is not at all interested in my graphs, sketches, diagrams and predictions.  She nevertheless is now convinced that I am right, and we are being mislead, on both extremes.

To make it clear, I do not have inside information, do not have contacts, only many years of history inside the swamp.

My suggestions are as a president I respected once said, "Trust, but verify".  Check your facts, then check the fact check sources, then check the fact check sources that you used to check the fact check sources.  All lie, or mislead, as necessary to support their side of the story.

Let's just not let ourselves repeat the "ficticous" phrase from the Star Wars Movie.

Be safe, but don't be stupid my friends.

[dubob]

Anglinarcher - you and I agree 100% on this: the REAL truth is hidden somewhere in the middle.  At 77 and a total of 40 years working as a Fed, I to have just a little insight into the intricacies of how the swamp works.  I also think it is wiser to err on the side of caution.  That said, I think we can both agree that safe living for all of us is a worthy goal.  Peace and tight lines to you always.

[BRL1]

I look at it as the excuse I needed to stay home, now that I have 4 days a week off, to catch up on three years of yard work, clean the garage after 30 years so I can put a boat motor back together that I tore apart 5 years ago.  If I get the ambition to get out of my recliner.

[Anglinarcher]

OK, so now the latest is that Utah will not peak until April 24th?  We will not be clear until the third week of June to July 14th?  The US will not peak for two weeks?

Some Eastern States are releasing hardened criminals from jail and prison, but WILL arrest anyone that does not follow the "Stay at Home" orders?

Along with releasing hardened criminals, including a really hard one in Washington State, many states are making it impossible to buy self protection weapons?

Are these questions, or are they tonights news reports?

I wonder, in the "Star Wars" fiction, how long was it before they decided that it was not a good idea to give all power to the government?

Is there a point in time when we ..........?

My father is 84 years old, I am not all that sure that he wants to spend what may be the last year of his life locked inside a prision.  The prision may not have bars, at least until Utah says they will lock us up for not staying inside, but a prision nonetheless.  

How many of us want to spend the next few months, potentially years (took over three for the Spanish flu) in prison?

Stay safe, but be smart.  I hope that this provides some perspective on what is happening.  In no way do I belittle the danger of the Virus, but we would be fools to belittle the potential danger of government taking all of our rights.  Once the precidence is set, it will happen again, and again.  

[fishskibum]

a lil jim harrison all up in this thread couldnt hurt

“The head's a cloud anchor that the feet must follow. Travel light, he said, or don't travel at all.”

“Wherever we go we do harm, forgiving
ourselves as wheels do cement for wearing
each other out. We set this house
on fire, forgetting that we live within.

“The world that used to nurse us
now keeps shouting inane instructions.
That's why I ran to the woods.”

attempt to stay safe out there

[Bovineowner]

Here is one morons perspective. These one size fits all rules and generalizations get us nowhere!!! What New York needs isn't what will be needed in Boise Idaho. What needs to happen in SLC doesn't need to happen in Callao Utah. I live and ranch in a very remote part of our state. I HAVE to be out and about to care for my Livestock. I make a weekly trip into civilization to pick up supplies for elderly neighbors. My family is used to shopping once a month so our grocery needs are minimal. But some of my older neighbors MUST have prescriptions and things. Delivery simply isn't an option. I take as many precautions as I can. I wash my hands 100 times a day. I use hand sanitizer. I avoid crowds and maintain social distancing. But I WILL not watch my neighbors go without or suffer. How is this any different than avoiding someone with the flu or pneumonia??? I understand that we don't know who has it and has been exposed and we do not have a vaccine. But if folks need medicine and can't get it, that's a death sentence too. No wonder the extreme death rates and transmission rates are in huge cities. People live in tiny spaces and are jammed together like ants. It will run rampant through those populations. And yet the CDC data still shows only 8% have to receive medical help. 92% don't even go to the doctor. AND RECOVER! We have to protect the venerable members of our population. Folks who have lessened immune systems and the elderly. But government over reach and stupidly usually makes problems much worse, i.e. Katrina. If people used common sense we wouldn't need the feds or state to mandate broad rules that only fit a few of its citizens. I hope you all stay healthy and are able to come out the other side of this fine. Please learn from this. Be better prepared for the next one, because it will happen. We all need to live within our means, plan the best we can for the unknown and make preparations to care for ourselves and families in trying times. God Blesss and happy trails.

[Tin-Can]

I have come to look at this whole situation as, I will do the best I can to maintain social distancing, and personal sanitation. BUT since I (and the folks left in my work area on Hill) have been determined to be "mission essential" if I can get up every morning, get to work, accomplish my mission so the A.F. can continue to accomplish it's mission, while 50% of my shop were allowed to take 14 days paid, but uncharged administrative leave due to real or maybe imagined underlying medical issues that make them supposedly more susceptible to Covid19, then I should be able to continue my personal social distancing in my chosen outdoor activities that all pertain  to being on, or near the water fishing.  What better distancing is there when I am in my boat, in the middle of a lake or river? Or stitting on a bank where the closest living thing to me are Seagulls, Midge flies, skeeters, etc;  Even if a family member (wife or son) is with me, none of us are sick (and if we were, we wouldn't be out and about) and even in the boat we are 8 to 10 feet apart.
As a few others on here have stated, I too have been closely associated with an arm of the US government. I have been in and worked for the USAF since I was 17. I too am a firm believer of the "trust but verify" statement. (Yea Bob, he was my favorite Commander in Chief).  I see what is happening in states that are mostly in the blue political camp, and even to some extent in the staunch red areas, and it is looking like Katrina all over again but on a coast to coast scale.  The quote that I most often think of, and I probably misquote it most of the time "those who give up their freedoms for security, end up with neither".  I sincerly hope that this current national emergency is managed in an intelligent way without alot of knee-jerk over reactions by local, state, or federal agencies.

Ok Bob, I'll get off of the soap box you left open.........

[dubob]

OK, so now the latest is that Utah will not peak until April 24th?  Can you provide a valid source for that information?

We will not be clear until the third week of June to July 14th?  Again, can you provide a source?

The US will not peak for two weeks?  Source?

Some Eastern States are releasing hardened criminals from jail and prison, but WILL arrest anyone that does not follow the "Stay at Home" orders?

Along with releasing hardened criminals, including a really hard one in Washington State, many states are making it impossible to buy self protection weapons?  That is an area of discussion that could eat up pages and pages of discussion and really isn't relevant on a large scale.  Most folks that desire firearms for self protection already have them so the directives establishing TEMPORARY restrictions on additional purchases aren't depriving the folks that desire the means of self protection; they already have it for the most part - IMHO.

Are these questions, or are they tonights news reports?  To the best of my knowledge, I would say they are just questions since I haven't seen any of them being touted on the news that I watch.

I wonder, in the "Star Wars" fiction, how long was it before they decided that it was not a good idea to give all power to the government?

Is there a point in time when we ..........?

My father is 84 years old, I am not all that sure that he wants to spend what may be the last year of his life locked inside a prison.  The prison may not have bars, at least until Utah says they will lock us up for not staying inside, but a prison nonetheless.  None of the current Utah Directive (as of 7 AM this morning) issued by Governor Herbert on March 27 makes it MANDATORY that an individual stay inside his home.  There are suggestions, guidelines, and recommendations for all of us to consider.  Law enforcement isn't setting up check points.  The State's National Guard hasn't been called up or deployed.  We are all free to make wise decisions about our safety and the safety of our loved ones as to what is essential in our lives.  The Directive also gives us enough knowledge about safety precautions to help us make those wise decisions.  I think that saying we are prisoners in our own homes is unrealistic.

How many of us want to spend the next few months, potentially years (took over three for the Spanish flu) in prison?  Really?  You're going to compare a pandemic that occurred 100 years ago with today's crisis?  With all of the advances in technology and medicine in the last 100 years, you think it is likely that we will suffer the same fate as the world did in 1920?  I'm sorry - I'm not buying it for a micro-second.  That isn't even apples and oranges - more like apples and space ships.  It just ain't hapnin.

Stay safe, but be smart.  I hope that this provides some perspective on what is happening.  In no way do I belittle the danger of the Virus, but we would be fools to belittle the potential danger of government taking all of our rights.  Once the precedence is set, it will happen again, and again.  We agree that this pandemic is a very serious one and none of us should take it lightly.  The latest projections for the total death toll, as of this morning, is somewhere between 100,000 and 240,000 in the USA.  We each need to do our part in helping to curtail the spread as much as possible.

My purpose in answering your post is NOT to belittle you in any way, shape, or form.  I'm sure your concerns are real to you.  I don't share the same concerns and wanted to present an alternate view of the situation for yours and other BFT members consideration.  I respect your right to have and present your concerns for our consideration.  That's just one of the things that I love about being a US Citizen.  Please continue to participate in this discussion.  We can all learn from it and I am always willing to increase my knowledge with facts and valid data.  That is what allows me to make informed decisions and occasionally admit that my original take on a situation was incorrect.  Tight lines to you, and I hope you can get some quality time with your Dad soon.  

---

Here is one morons perspective. These one size fits all rules and generalizations get us nowhere!!! What New York needs isn't what will be needed in Boise Idaho. What needs to happen in SLC doesn't need to happen in Callao Utah. I live and ranch in a very remote part of our state. I HAVE to be out and about to care for my Livestock. I make a weekly trip into civilization to pick up supplies for elderly neighbors. My family is used to shopping once a month so our grocery needs are minimal. But some of my older neighbors MUST have prescriptions and things. Delivery simply isn't an option. I take as many precautions as I can. I wash my hands 100 times a day. I use hand sanitizer. I avoid crowds and maintain social distancing. But I WILL not watch my neighbors go without or suffer. How is this any different than avoiding someone with the flu or pneumonia??? I understand that we don't know who has it and has been exposed and we do not have a vaccine. But if folks need medicine and can't get it, that's a death sentence too. No wonder the extreme death rates and transmission rates are in huge cities. People live in tiny spaces and are jammed together like ants. It will run rampant through those populations. And yet the CDC data still shows only 8% have to receive medical help. 92% don't even go to the doctor. AND RECOVER! We have to protect the venerable members of our population. Folks who have lessened immune systems and the elderly. But government over reach and stupidly usually makes problems much worse, i.e. Katrina. If people used common sense we wouldn't need the feds or state to mandate broad rules that only fit a few of its citizens. I hope you all stay healthy and are able to come out the other side of this fine. Please learn from this. Be better prepared for the next one, because it will happen. We all need to live within our means, plan the best we can for the unknown and make preparations to care for ourselves and families in trying times. God Blesss and happy trails.

I see absolutely NOTHING in your post that would lead me to believe you are one of the morons I was referring to.  Every activity you described can be participated in within the guidelines of the March 27th Directive issued by the Governor.  Everything you talked about can be done safely and with minimal impact on your neighbors.  The morons are those that know what the safe way of doing something is, and doing it in an unsafe manner such that they are putting themselves and others in harms way.  Do you still want to classify yourself as one of the morons I was talking about?  I thought not.  

I've been reading your posts for several years now and have found nothing in them that would lead me to believe that you are a moron.  I haven't agreed with you on a few points in the past, but I find your posts insightful, informative, and intelligently thought out.  Keep up the good work helping out your neighbors in a safe manner.  I'm sure that you are not doing anything that will endanger their well being needlessly.
 

[Anglinarcher]

Bob,  I just think that you are all too willing to give up freedom for security, and will end up with neither.  You started this and I felt it was imperitive that we have some balance.

Do you know that the government is now tracking our cell phones to see how far we are traveling from home and determining what is essential travel?  At this time, I suspect it is group tracking, not specific tracking, but it is being done.  The graph results were posted today on FOX.  It is a pretty small step to track each of us individually.

PS, those were real news reports from several of the drive by media yesterday, not rumors.

Sources, 1) KSL, 2) KSL, 3) CDC.

We don't agree that most people that want to protect themselves have firearms.  We do agree that they probably won't be safer with firearms that they don't even know how to use this late in the game.  IMHO your HO is wrong.

And while I would love to rebut each topic, I think the point is already made.  Yes, I am comparing the virus today with 100 years ago, because until we have a vaccine, we are no better off.  Even with Trump's push to remove the red tape, we still likley won't have it ready for next year.  I do hope I am wrong on the time line.  If the two test being done now on current vaccines work, and we don't have sufficient evidence yet to believe it will, then the only real treatment is for us to all catch it to get the antibodies.  We are not even sure how many lives that would cost, but it would be horrific.

The point is that neither of us are belittling each other, we just don't agree with each other on the specifics.  I am sure that I am right, and I suspect that you are equally sure that you are right.

So, here is my HOPE.  My hope is that freedom is NOT LOST.  My hope is that Governments and political parties will learn to work together and use crisis to take advantage.  My hope is that one day you and I can meet at the shore and shake each other's hand, without so much fear that we have to stand 6' or more away.  My hope is that at 77, you don't need to spend your last year in lockdown.  You are right, the Governor of Utah has made "suggestions", not "orders" as of today.  Counties are not as limited in their scope.  But, I know of no threats, like Washington DC, to lock up people that violate the Stay At Home order.

Be well Bob, be well everyone, and be safe.  We can disagree and still like each other.

[CrayDad]

My hope is that Strawberry rez opens up before 2020 winter comes...

[fishskibum]

the bovine guy and i tend to see eye to eye
i know im not the sharpest tool in the shed
well yeah ive done moranic things by somes definition
and im on a jh reading roll
“Everyday I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about.”
― Jim Harrison


but the same things  tend to make us

bless ya for being the helper to those in need
ifin we dont wet a line someday on this side
well ya know.... im addin it to the list
throw a prayer or positive thought mr Prines way
https://youtu.be/l0EiV423j0M
been the soundtrack of my life for miles of piscatorial pursuits 
stay safe and helpful
like somebody embed the viddy for me

[dubob]

And this just in:

[fishskibum]

wife says "oh you can go fishin dont plan on come home"
a lot
some tecnically a  being a "homeless" fisherman is nothing new to me
the locks aint changed yet but hows barney fifes gonna know that or prove that?
neither is actually being homeless and having to live in a car, friends couches or jobsites for a period of my life
i cant rember much of the first 3 but the other 52 involved fishing and will continue till the end of the line