Here's the magical moment you all have been waiting for... (It's official!)

[mustbblind]

[cool] it would not surprise me to find walleyes in lake x seeing as how i caught one in the river about where the dam is now when i was about 15 and being 40 now i believe they have been there all along to bad the secrets out............lol
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[maniac]

eventually the walleye will most likely contribute most heavily, to a big down cycle of Jordanelle. And we will all be waiting for the return of the big small mouth fishery, that "was", and probably never will be again, as long as you have two aggressive predators in a lake, with limited forage fish they will both eventually suffer!
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[mikecromaine]

JUST SO YOU KNOW CLIFF ROCKPORT IS FULL OF PERCH TONS AND TONS OF THEM SO THAT IS WERE THEY CAN GET THEM THEN THERE IS FISH LAKE. JUST TWO OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD
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[tomegun]

Hey Paul, we have to talk about putting an office in my home. I'll probably be up there on the 5th too.

Hey folks! Until the walleye actually start getting caught in numbers, "forget about it".

The walleye have been there since it started to fill.

Walleye have been in Deer Creek for over 20 years, get over it.

Smallmouth and walleyes have no problem co-existing.

The perch most likey have hurt the smallie population. But, there will always be big'uns(just less numbers).

Now, the important information: Smallmouth fishing ain't as easy as you think. With the abundant feed in Lake X, big game hunting is slow, tedious, and hard to come by. On any given day and moment, every and all techniques will work at a given time. To be a smallie master, one needs to be adequate at many skills and able to change at a moments notice.

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[bassrods]

Yeah...I know Rockport has perch...but has the Bucket Biologists already polluted that lake too? Or is it next on their hit list?

As for re-stocking lakes like Yuba, Deer Creek, Starvation, and soon Jordanelle with perch...visa vi Rockport or Fish Lake...who, what, when, and how...is this project going to be funded? The DWR has seen their funding slashed every year for years.

The last perch gathering (at Jordanelle) to re-stock Yuba...I was there participating every day, along with the DWR and BASS Federation people. We didn't see hardly ANY walleye fishermen putting in their time or money to gather the perch to transport to Yuba.

Yuba walleye are pathetic...if there are any even left in the lake. Deer Creek walleye are only eyeballs and skeletons. Starvation has stunted walleye with very few large ones in any of the lakes.

Yuba used to contain world class perch, walleye, channel cat and northern pike. Now Yuba has nothing...except waterskiers. Between the fishermen catching and keeping the big perch...and the predators eating the little perch...do the math...it's not rocket science. It took a few years, but the results were still the same...and the scenero was repeated at Deer Creek.

As soon as walleye becomes dominate in Jordanelle, that lake will go in the same downward direction as Deer Creek, Starvation and Yuba, with even the smallmouth going from a world class fishery to a typicle Utah smallmouth lake where a 4 lb'er will in the future be considered a trophy.

Since I hold the Utah C&R Smallmouth Bass state record...and last year caught over 42 smallmouth over 5 lbs at Jordanelle, and since there is a possible world record smallmouth in Jordanelle, I am sorely disappointed at the revelry expressed at the pending demise of this fishery.

It's only a matter of time...history...will repeat itself. Enjoy the boom...because the bust is coming.
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[mikecromaine]

HUMMM I WONDER IF DROUGHT PLAYED A PART IN YUBA OR MAYBE DRAINING IT. NOW WALLEYE'S HAVE BEEN IN THE PROVO RIVER FOR YEARS BEFORE THERE WAS A EVEN A DAM FOR JORDANELLE. NOW WITH THEM BEING IN THERE FOR 7 YEARS NOW SENCE THE FIRST GILL NETTING IF THEY WERE GOING TO DESTROY THE LAKE AS YOU SAY. IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW I WOULD THINK.BUT I ALSO GUESS BASS NEVER EVER HAVE A BOOM AND BUST ON THERE OWN ONLY OTHER FISH DO IT TO THEM. I LOVE BASS FISHING BUT MAN LETS GET REAL HERE. WALLEYES ARE NOT THE END OF THE WORLD, TROUT ARE LOL []
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[bassrods]

Everyone seems to be missing the point. Before the BB'rs start stocking lakes that have perch in them...and upsetting the natural balances or whatever balance there is in a particular lake, they need to take into consideration just what or who is eating that particular food source.

If walleyes, bass, trout, perch and humans are all predating the perch...what other food source is left to sustain the predators once the smaller perch are consumed, and the breeding stock is taken by fisherman.

Some people think there are crawdads in Jordanelle for the smallmouth, but in the past couple of years...the DWR have not found any evidence of crawdads in Jordanelle...so without the perch remaining viable and without the chubs...the predators will eventually starve. Those that survive will be feeding on each other.

There needs to be an alternate food source...like shad or shiners put in all the lakes that have walleye.

I don't think the walleye is evil and I like to catch them as well as the other guys, but I also like to have a healthy fishery...with big fish. Like the smallmouth are in Jordanelle right now ... and Deer Creek's huge wallleye when it was in it's hayday.

I am tired of a boom and bust fishery...every time a bucket biologist decides they know more than the DWR.

I don't like every decision the DWR makes, but I have to agree with them where walleye is concerned.
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[Kent]

[size 1]"There needs to be an alternate food source...like shad or shiners put in all the lakes that have walleye."[/size]
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[size 1]Great idea, but it aint going to happen, because the powers that be (primarily the feds) will not allow it.[/size]
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[PBH]

I agree with almost everything bassrods says.

I don't think adding more prey is the answer anywhere. If you have a problem with coyotes, do you add more rabbits to feed them? Or do you try to lower the number of coyotes?

the problem with walleye is that they reproduce to easily in Utah's reservoirs. They reproduce and reproduce and reproduce until there are too many of them. The prey gets spread too thin. The answer is to control to number of predators. You can't do that with walleye.

Lakes can only hold so many pounds of fish per acre. When that limit is met (predators + prey) you cannot just add more fish (prey) to the mix and expect it to help. You have to reduce numbers of fish. The equation is not helped by walleye eating all the prey -- that doesn't lower the pounds per acre of fish -- walleye quickly fill the gap created by reduced numbers of prey. Pretty soon you end up with a lake at carrying capicity consisting of only walleye -- what do they eat then? BOOM!
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[iconoclasticPaul]

PBH,

Can you clarify what is it about those fed regulations and its red tape regarding the introduction of gizzard shad and other baitfish? What's going on? What's the idea and the purpose behind the red tape? What is it that we need to do to get through the red tape, and make it disappear? How many states are limited to this red tape?

It sounds as if gizzard shad is illegal, therefore must be lumped together with illegal drugs. All of this is very perplexing to me.

Would you educate us on this matter?

My mother always did tell me, "if you want something bad enough, then you have to work very hard at it for it to happen".
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[cat_man]

paul I believe the reason is not the species, but rather the drainage. Anything that drains into the Colorado River system cannot be planted with such things. There are several endangered species in the Colorado River system, like the humpback chub and razorback sucker or something like that. I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it.
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[iconoclasticPaul]

Catman,

That's a plausible theory... however I don't recall hearing about Utah Lake, Yuba, Willard, Deer Creek, and Jordanelle ever draining into the Colorado river. If anything those lakes have rivers flowing west into the wasatch front with the exception of Yuba's sevier river flowing west somewhere else. It still doesn't make any sense for the fed regs for those lakes. UNLESS the feds are worried about bucket biologists?!
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[utwalleye]

I have a little somthing to add to this. instead of having perch as the forage base it should be bluegill. for a couple of reasons. a 12in.
bluegill is a pretty big around slab and it will take a pretty big walleye to eat him, on the other hand a 12in. perch is a pretty small around fish and a pretty small walleye could eat him with no problem. I caught a 22in. walleye a long time ago in D.C. and that fish had 2 fresh 6in. perch in the stomach and I caught him on a 7in. rapala. what I'm trying to say is I don't think a 22in. walleye would get a 6in. bluegill down his throut very easy, so once a bluegill reaches about 6 to 8 in. you have a prim spawning bluegill that dosen't have to worry (too) much about getting eaten up by small walleye. just my dime, (inflation ya know) later chuck
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[PBH]

Paul -- it's not only the Colorado River Drainage. It's all drainages. Every drainage has some native species. Introducing non-native species to any drainage is becoming harder, and harder for the DWR. Sometimes, this is very good, and sometimes it is a very bad joke.

With that being said -- again, the problem is NOT forage. The problem is predators that reproduce beyond the carrying capacity of our lakes. We need to be able to control the numbers of fish. Native fish DO NOT have this problem. Can anyone name me a lake that has a problem with Cutthroat overpopulating, and eating themselves out of house and home? Now, look at Brook trout -- how often do you see overpopulated brook trout lakes in the Uintahs? You also see it with brown trout. Perch. Walleye.

I'm not asking to eliminate all non-native species. I love rainbow trout, brook trout, smallmouth bass, lake trout....but there has to be some control, and right now there is no way to control a population of Walleye. Adding more forage fish is NOT a solution. All that does is compound the problem (add more food = more prey = less food = prolonged BUST cycle.) You have to limit the predator (walleye).

That is why I do not like walleye in Utah. Wipers are a much better solution for those who want to catch a big, tasty, hard-fighting fish.
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[fonduvfishin]

Paul, it is my understanding that Gizzard shad have ruined some fisheries back east, due to their ability to reproduce very rapidly and grow to propotions that most game fish wouldn't dream of consuming. If this forage were to be introduced to other waters in the state, it would only be a matter of time before bucket bios would have them everywhere, and that would not be good for any species. I believe that is why (and help me with this one fellow BFT'ers) that you cannot have in your possesion dead or alive - Gizzard Shad. This limits the possibilities of them ending up in live wells or buckets to be transported to other waters. Bluegill or Crappie might be an option for forage and provide youngsters with the opportunity to catch fish that capture their attention. Let the dialog begin!!!
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[crossineye]

MOORE PEOPLE LERN HOW TO CATCH EYES AND OTHER BIG PREDITORS WILL HELP THE #,S. THIS IS WHY MOST OF US EYE GUYS SHARE SO MUTCH INFO ON THE SUBJECT OF CATCHING EYES. WHY WONT UTAH ALOW LIVE BAIT ON WATERS THAT HOLD EYES? IT WILL HURT TROUT FISHERIES I GET THAT BUT CERTAIN LAKE CAN BENNAFIT BY IT. STARVAION FOR EXAMPLE. SOME CHUBS WILL GET OF HOOKS AND SURVIVE TO BREED. OTHERS WILL BE DISCARDED WHEN FISHERMEN LEAVE TO MUTURE AND SPAWN. AND PEOPLE WILL HARVEST MOORE EYES. IFF THE LIVE BAIT CAN ONLY BE SOLD AT THE AREAS WITH EYES BY MARINAS. AND ANY ONE CAUGHT USING LIVE BAIT IN ANY OTHER WATER LOST FISHING PRIVLIGES FOR LIFE AND A 10,000 $ FINE AND LOSS OF ALL EQUIPMENT IN POSSESION. AND A 1 YR MANDATORY JAIL SENTECE FOR ALL VIOLATORS. THEN WE COULD ALL ENJOY ANOTHER WONDERFUL TYPE OF FISHING FOR EYES THAT IS PROBLY BEST PRESSENTATION OF ALL FOR THEM.
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[bassrods]

You are half right I think? what about the smallmouth and the way the size limits are, with live bait they take it so deep that most would die.

I know that the shad is in the Colorado now, Lake Powell has them.
Deercreek, Jordanelle Yuba and Willard all drain in the great salt lake or out to the west and dry up. and one more thing why not take the limit off the walleyes like they do the strippers or put a 50 fish limit on them.
But to me it seems that if the food is eating up you put in more food and take the limits off. Not wait for years like they did with lake powell and yuba.
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[PBH]

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...and one more thing why not take the lament off the walleyes like they do the strippers or put a 50 fish lament on them.
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I don't understand why a fish that is NOT supposed to be in a lake (walley - DC) even has a limit. Why does the DWR protect a fish that was illegally introduced?

Once again, adding more food to an overpopulated situation will not do any good. It would only do harm. You can't pour 5 gallons of water into a container that only holds 4 gallons...it just doesn't work. You don't have to look any further than Starvation (such an ironic name) to see evidence.
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[wormandbobber]

The reason Utah doesn't allow the use of live fish as bait is because of the problem Bassrods has already alluded to: the transport of live bait and the release of live bait into a lake/reservoir is what is ruining many of our waters. Scenario: fishermen wants to use gizzard shad as a bait fish at Deer Creek. He catches a bucket full of nice bait-sized shad takes them to Deer Creek and then releases the fish he doesn't use into the reservoir. 3 years later Deer Creek has a sizable population of shad, the Feds step in because of their possible detriment to endangered June Suckers, and call for the immediate poisoning of the whole reservoir.

The use of live bait fish should be disallowed. I agree with Bassrods and PBH. Walleye are a poor game fish for Utah because their population cannot be controlled and they hurt other great fishing options....in Jordanelle, walleye will drastically hurt the smallmouth. What a shame.
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[bkidder]

i can name a lake that the cutthroat have become overpopulated and eaten themselves out of house and home. currant creek! has anyone else taken a fishfinder and seen the sheer numbers in their? i trolled it quite seriously last year for two days. the biggest cutt i saw was 16 inches...is their anything more than a nice cutt that has that big head and starving body? i dont think so. if you dont believe me- go up and drop a worm in their sometime...its a frenzy and a fight for your worm! they are desperate. ive been fishing it for years, and the cutt numbers need to be reduced. of course, with trout its as easy as raising the limit a hair.

and again, being pro trout, i dont see a problem with deer creek. my grandpa has been trolling it for a long, long, time. he quit fishing it about 20 years ago because of the perch. he couldnt even let a line out without catching a perch. now, ive been fishing it for 3 years, ive never caught a perch their. (my point? a fishery's health is relative!)
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