If it was trout they (DWR) would replant....

[hedgesd]

Okay somebody clue me in to what started this perch die off postings.
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[Hellsangler69]

Seems to be a hot topic lately . I will go find some fish sunday . I don't care what [].
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[PREDATOR]

What started it was there is a huge number of guys who love to ice fish for perch.
They target the perch as thier main ice fishing species.
Currently the ice season has not yeilded a great perch fishery for them to ice fish on. So theres some discontent about it. Its like taking all the trout out of strawberry and expecting the ice fishermen to be happy about the lack of fish.

Anyways, one thing I would like to see as far as perch stocking is the perch to be stocked into hyrum again. It used to be a great perch fishery, but it was poorly managed with huge limits for such a small body of water and the perch have never recovered.
Thats one fishery that could use a good perch stocking.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]The perch in Deer Creek were all sizes, before the opening to ice fishing and the proliferation of walleyes and SMALLMOUTHS. I also caught lots of 12" perch from Deer Creek, but I usually had to work my way through a lot of 6" - 8" fish to get them.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Here are a couple of pics from that era. One pic is of ice fishing during the first week Deer Creek was open to ice fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[wormandbobber]

A couple of things: our hatcheries are strapped for the demands that are already placed on them. The warmwater fishery near lake powell produces lots more than the occasional bass; for example, it has been producing the wipers that so many people love in Willard and now the wipers that have been planted in New Castle. Also, having a hatchery raise and release chubs or any other forage fish is totally dumb--why should the state spend dollars raising fish that are intended to be caught in an attempt to create a balance between predator and prey when a natural balance can be achieved with different species. What most of you don't seem to get is that most of our fisheries are simply better suited for trout. Our reservoirs do not have good cover for prey species...which is exactly why we keep having these christmas tree habitat projects.

Sorry Fuzzy, I am not impressed with 8-9 inch perch...my father has a perch on the wall that weighed closed to 3 pounds (caught from Fish Lake not long after they were originally introduced in the early 80's). When was the last perch you caught in Fish Lake that even came close to two pounds let alone three?
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[PBH]

[reply]


Sorry Fuzzy, I am not impressed with 8-9 inch perch...my father has a perch on the wall that weighed closed to 3 pounds (caught from Fish Lake not long after they were originally introduced in the early 80's). When was the last perch you caught in Fish Lake that even came close to two pounds let alone three?[/reply]
Anyone that walks into the Southern Region Offices can see this fish...

Here's a question for those asking about planting chubs in Starvation:

Why should the DWR plant forage fish to support a predator that was illegally introduced and caused a good fishery to crash?



Another concept that many people dont understand is carrying capacity. Lakes are similar to buckets. You can only fill the bucket with so much. Once it reaches it's capacity, you can't add more to it. For example, look at Yuba. The walleye do fantastic as long as there is ample forage, and space, for both to exist. The walleye eventually wipe out the forage, and overpopulate until the bucket (Yuba) is full of walleye. How do you add more forage to the bucket, if the bucket is already full of walleye? Once a lake reaches carrying capacity (or a river, like the Provo), you have a problem. Adding more fish to the problem doesn't fix the problem. You MUST have something in place to control those populations. In some places you have poor spawning habitat that limits recruitment. In other places you have winterkill to limit populations. Other areas rely on predation from either animals or humans to curb populations. Stocking is another way to limit the number of fish. But, when you have a fish like Walleye in a lake like Yuba, you have NO control over the population. Same thing with Starvation. Again, adding MORE fish to the equation doesn't fix the problem. The bucket is already full.
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[Fowl-Hook]

So explain why Fishlake has so many little perch and has never had a Dye-Off. Is the extreme depth of the lake stablize temp or water level? It seems these extreme circumstances occure mostly at shallow warm water lakes or (like Pineview) places we draw down to low levels in different water years.
What do you think?
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[wormandbobber]

I think you are on the right track...obviously, nobody really knows, but Fish Lake is much closer to the environment that perch evolved in than most of our reservoirs. I think that is the biggest key; state agencies and the feds all across the US are trying to keep things much closer to what nature intended...not just for the sake of being natural, but because our fisheries are generally better this way. I love to catch bass, lake trout, rainbow trout, brook trout, brown trout, and other exotic species, but these species generally disrupt balances. That is why perch sometimes stunt; that is why Yuba is constantly on a boom and bust cycle. It is also why the state works so much with trout; they do not reproduce as easily and are, therefore, much easier to control from a population standpoint. Rainbow trout will not reproduce in most of our reservoirs; a good balance between available food and fish numbers can be maintained simply by regulations and stocking. The same cannot be said about species that are able to reproduce easily--like perch and walleye...and even brook trout.
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[CROSSINEYES]

DID YOU KNOW PERCH SPAWN IN WEEDS? AND BRUSH? WALLEYES ARE NOT THE REASON FOR BUST ITS LOW WATER YRS. NO COVER NO SPAWN HENCE MISSING YR CLASSES OF BAIT FISH. AND OVER PREDATION FROM LACK OF COVER. IT IS UNDER NO ONES CONTROL THE NEW DAM WILL TEACH YOU ALL SOME LESSONS. I BREAD EXOTIC AFFRICAN CICLIDS FOR YRS SOME SPWN ON GRAVLE LIKE EYES OTHERS ATTACT EGGS TO COVER IF MY WATER LEVELS DROPPED BELOW THE COVER DEAD EGGS OR THEY WOULD NOT SPAWN AT ALL. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE AND IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE TO AN EDJUCATED PERSON BUT NOT IT NEVER WILL TO A CLOSED MIND INDAVIGUAL. IM NOT PICKING AT YOU ITS JUST COMON SENSE THAT YOU SEEM TO KEEP OVER LOOKING...
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[wormandbobber]

I know exactly where perch spawn...walleye are a big reason for the boom and bust at Yuba because at some point they eat out their prey and continue to reproduce...so, soon you have no prey for the walleye and tons of walleye/predators. Eventually, because the predators have no prey and their numbers increase and increase and increase, the fishing goes bust for the predators, they die, and the prey start coming back. You are absolutely right, no cover means missing year classes in fish..that is why the DWR does these habitat projects where they put artificial habitat into the reservoir..in hopes that the perch can successfully spawn and reproduce without the youngins getting munched by predators. Predators and their prey work together to establish and equilibrium; this equilibrium is constantly thrown out of whack when the prey cannot keep themselves established because of habitat problems with their recruitment and their ability to hide from prey. Walleyes are most definitely a part of the problem as is recruitment, like you mentioned.

I resent the fact that you are calling me close-minded and hinting that I am undeducated...not only am I college educated, but I spent the first part of my college education studying fisheries biology. I know something about our fisheries and how they work because i have spent my entire lifetime learning from biologists who work on these fisheries and are constantly studying them.
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[JoyRide]

Please guys ... don't be slamming or resenting. A good open discussion is great for everyone. Don't take things too personally - and try to keep it civil.
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[gshorthair]

I think the biggest factor in the perch populations is water level. All the resevoirs seemed to have had problems when water levels drop early in the year when the irrigation companies start using water for irrigation. This could leave the current years spawn high and dry. A couple years of that and you have a major crash. Fish lake is not a resevoir and only the excess water drains from the lake. there aren't big spring draw downs at fish lake. The perch should spawn successfully every year and there shouldn't be any crashes. The crashes at pineview and yuba happened when the water levels were kept at low levels. The DWR has no control over the irrigation companies. It seems like the divsion did plant perch back in Yuba. gshorthair
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[UtahDaveII]

A few thoughts:

Perch---The problem with Perch is we either have tow many or two few in Utah. rarely, if ever, are they in balance in Utah.

Walleye are most definately a major part of the perch problem. They eat the perch out of house and home and for the most part walleye do that to any prey base in Utah. The reason is simple, our lakes are very different from lakes in the midwest where walleye are from. Our reservoirs tend to have less cover, fewer types of prey species (if you don't believe me take a look at the fish in utah page on the dwr website, notice how many non-native minnows have been planted in willard bay in hopes of providing more prey) and as a result in almost every case walleye have out eaten their prey base.

Starvation Reservoir was brought up by a couple of people. The walleye introdcution was not illegal in Starvation. It was planned. The plan was to use the Walleye to control the chubs. It worked so well the chubs can no longer get an ageclass through. Last summer Stonefly recieved recognition for the help we have given the dwr on Colorado Cutthroat Restoration. At that lunch, the dwr also awarded an individual who goes out for the dwr and nets walleye nearly everyday as they dwr tries to get the #'s of walleye down enough to allow the forage to recover. In my view waht a waste of manpower. So as some say, yes the dwr has been bucket biologist, but I can also say that these same dwr employees also realize that walleye in Utah waters are basically a mistake. Knowing what we know now, starvation could have remained a coldwater fishery with a combination of Brown Trout, Bear Lake Cutts, Eagle Lake Rainbows and you probably could still have the smallmouth. In my view rotenone is the only solution to fixing that lake and after the rotenone hits turn it back to a coldwater fishery. This lake would have more people using it and it would provide a far better fishery than it does now, it would certainly have more use.

Think of Deer Creek once the walleye got illegally stocked in deer creek, use dropped into the toilet. A lot of you guys are walleye fisherman, I understand that, but what you got to realize is that walleye fishing is really an elitist sport. It may not embrace elitism, like many fly fisherman do, but it is a specialized sport that requires special equipment and is done by very, very few fisherman. If I can remember the angler days correctly it seems that before walleye hit Deer Creek angler use was well over 100,000 angler days a year. I think it dropped to down around 30,000. Why should the dwr ever convert any existing trout fisheries to STOCKED warmwater fisheries as some of you are proposing?

If the dWR must stock a lake the easist way to do it is to stock fingerlings and let the lake grow them. It's called put grow and take. Unfortunately, when a lake is illegally stocked by bucket biologist it makes this scenario not possible. In the end this means fewer fish for all our waters.

Once again the best way to preserve our fisheries is to protect natrually sustaining populations of native fish in native waters. While we may never reach it, it should be our goal. If we can do that than we know we have preserved our ability to sustain our fish populations for generations to come.
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[bkidder]

so, its the walleye that i owe my thank you's to on deer creek! the trout fishing at deer creek is fantastatic. the ramps arent too crowded, theres plenty of open space to troll, and the bows and browns are big and sassy.(and plentiful) now, if only the walleye could get rid of a few wakeboarders!
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[CROSSINEYES]

SOME GOOD POINTS BUT IF THE WATER STAYES UP PREY STAY PRESSANT. I DID NOT CALL YOU UNEDGUCATED AT ALL DIDNT EVEN REFER TO YOU IN THAT PART BUT I GET THAT IT HIT YOUR COARD WAS NOT MY INTENTION AT ALL. NOW I GET WHY YOU FEEL THE WAY YOU DO ON SO MANY ISSUES HERE. SAME FIXED BELEIFS AS THE DWR. TROUT TROUT TROUT. IM SURE GLAD SO MANY ANGLERS IN THIS STATE HAVE TAKEN UP SOME DIFFERNT OUT LOOKS. I FISHED TROUT SINCE AGE 6 AND IM 41 NOW. THATS 35 YRS OF IN THE FEILD EXP. NO BOOK TEACHES THAT. YOU CAN NOT GET IT IN ANY CLASS ROOM ANY WHERE. NATURE IS THE REAL TEACHER IN NATURE. EVERY DAY IT TEACHES ME SOMETHING NEW IM IN IT... I CAN TELL YOUR A GOOD GUY WITH GOOD INTENTIONS IN SHARING YOUR KNOWLAGE. KEEP EM COMMING . O UTDAVE I GET TO ASK IF AN ELITIST GAME CHASSING EYES IS MY 9 YR OLD SON THAT GOOD? FOR HE CAN GETS THEM AS MUTCH AS DAD DOES. NOW EXPLAIN WHY A 9 YR OLD CAN DO WHAT MY OWN DAD COULD NEVER DO? CATCH AN EYE. DAD IS A TROUT GUY AND TAGHT ME TO CATCH ALL THE TROUT I WANTED AS A KID. AS AN ADULT I TAUGHT HIM THE WAYS OF THE WALLEYE AND 5 YRS OF GOING OUT WITH ME HE GAVE IT UP TO HARD THEY HIT TO SOFT EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE. AND HIS GRAND SON IS SUCCESFUL AT 9 ITS THE ANGLER NOT THE FISH. SURE ALOT OF US HERE TARGET WALLEYES AS ARE FAVORITE FISH MOSTLEY IN PART ON HOW THEY TAIST. BUT THE BIG THUMP THUMP THUMP OF A GIANT EYE WILL FOREVER MAKE FISHERMEN SMILE. IF YOU HAVE CAUGHT A TRUE GIANT YOU KNOW WHAT THE THUMP IS. IN NOT YOU WILL NEVER GET IT.
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[bassrods]

It seems that an 8 to 9 inch perch doesn't impress a number of fishermen...well here's a little biological information on the Yellow Perch.

This is the quote...the lines below wouldn't hold the information:

"The average size of yellow perch ranges from 4 to 10 inches, but a healthy adult may reach 15 inches. The average fish weighs somewhere around a pound."

[/quote]

Now here is the IFGA alltime records for Yellow Perch...the 1865 record is listed..and so is the Utah State record comparing these two records with all of the other states. Yuba produced the second largest perch record...tying that honor with Rhode Island.


Species
Scientific Name
Line Class
Weight
Catch Place
Angler
Catch Date
Qualifies For
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
01 kg (2 lb)
2 lbs. 9 oz. - 1.18 kgs
Yuba Reservoir Fayette, Utah, USA
Ray Johnson
July 5, 1984
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
02 kg (4 lb)
2 lbs. 11 oz. - 1.23 kgs
Yuba Reservoir Fayette, Utah, USA
Ray Johnson
July 4, 1984
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
03 kg (6 lb)
2 lbs. 11 oz. - 1.22 kgs
South Kingston Rhode Island, USA
Albert Ferris
Sept. 3, 2001
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
04 kg (8 lb)
2 lbs. 5 oz. - 1.05 kgs
Yuba Reservoir Fayette, Utah, USA
Ray Johnson
July 6, 1984
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
06 kg (12 lb)
1 lbs. 15 oz. - 0.87 kgs
Barbers Pond, W. Kingston Rhode Island, USA
Ms. Holly Ferris
Sept. 26, 1986
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
06 kg (12 lb) Tie
2 lbs. 0 oz. - 0.9 kgs
North River, Currituck North Carolina, USA
Roy Cahoon
Feb. 15, 1989
LC
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
10 kg (20 lb)
1 lbs. 1 oz. - 0.49 kgs
Long Lake South Dakota, USA
Ted Ellenbecker
May 30, 1999
SFW
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
10 kg (20 lb)
1 lbs. 0 oz. - 0.45 kgs
Otter Creek, Vermont USA
Capt. Jim Anson
May 16, 2005
SFW
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
All-Tackle
4 lbs. 3 oz. - 1.91 kgs
Bordentown New Jersey, USA
Dr. C. Abbot
May, 1865
AT
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
F-Junior
1 lbs. 4 oz. - 0.56 kgs
Sapphire Lake Ontario, Canada
Ms. Chelsea Pratte
July 20, 2000
JR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
F-Smallfry
1 lbs. 1 oz. - 0.48 kgs
Red Cedar Lake Wisconsin, USA
Ms. Christina Berg
Aug. 11, 1998
JR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
M-Junior
1 lbs. 3 oz. - 0.53 kgs
Sebago Lake Raymond, Maine, USA
Eric Betts
Aug. 11, 2000
JR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
M-Smallfry
1 lbs. 2 oz. - 0.51 kgs
Red Cedar Lake Wisconsin, USA
Steven Berg
July 25, 1999
JR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
M-Smallfry (Tie)
1 lbs. 2 oz. - 0.51 kgs
Red Cedar Lake Wisconsin, USA
Mark Berg
Aug. 11, 1999
JR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 01 kg (2 lb)
1 lbs. 2 oz. - 0.51 kgs
Chickahominy River Virginia, USA
W. Scott Johnston
Feb. 21, 2003
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 01 kg (2 lb) Tie
1 lbs. 2 oz. - 0.51 kgs
Brady Lake Pennsylvania, USA
John Boesenberg
Oct. 10, 2003
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 02 kg (4 lb)
1 lbs. 5 oz. - 0.61 kgs
Brady Lake Pennsylvania, USA
John Boesenberg
Oct. 6, 2003
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 03 kg (6 lb)
1 lbs. 6 oz. - 0.63 kgs
North River, Currituck North Carolina, USA
Thomas Elkins
Feb. 5, 1995
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 04 kg (8 lb)
1 lbs. 5 oz. - 0.6 kgs
Blackwater Lake Canada
Geoff Bernardo
June 23, 1997
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 06 kg (12 lb)
1 lbs. 4 oz. - 0.56 kgs
Pakwash Lake, Ear Falls Ontario, Canada
Lawrence Hudnall
Oct. 16, 1985
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 08 kg (16 lb)
1 lbs. 2 oz. - 0.51 kgs
Dragon Run Virginia, USA
W. Scott Johnston
Feb. 9, 2002
FR
Perch, yellow
Perca flavescens
Tippet 10 kg (20 lb)
1 lbs. 4 oz. - 0.56 kgs
Beaver Pond, Hunts Corners Cortland County, New York, USA
Jeffrey S. Weibly
Apr. 16, 2005
FR

Now if that is a yellow perch hanging on your Dad's wall is a three pounder...that's a new state record and a new IFGA record for Utah. Because the Utah record is only 15 1/8 inches long at 2 pounds and 11 ounces.

If that fish is a Sacramento Perch...it would run a close second to the IFGA worlds record out of Crowly Lake in California.


Species
Scientific Name
Line Class
Weight
Catch Place
Angler
Catch Date
Qualifies For
Perch, Sacramento
Archoplites interruptus
All-Tackle
3 lbs. 3 oz. - 1.44 kgs
Crowley Lake California, USA
Richard Fischer
Sept. 22, 1995
AT

The Utah State record for Sacramento perch is four pounds-five-ounces and 17 inches long.



[font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 3]Yellow Perch

[/size][/font][font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 2]Rich yellow to brassy-green with 6 to 8 dark vertical bars on the sides. Dark green back. No "canine" teeth. The bell is whitish. The dorsal fin has two sections, the front one contains 12 to 14 sharp spines and the rear 12 to 13 soft rays. [/size][/font]


[font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 3]Sacramento Perch
[/size][/font][font "Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size 2]
Color blackish above, with about seven vertical bars irregular in form and position. This is not a true perch, but a sunfish. [/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][/font]
[font "Arial"]I would hate to see a nice record like your Dad's not be recognized for the trophy it is. [/font]
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[CBR]

We already have some killer perch fisheries in this state, some that could be ranked right up there in the top 10 in the country. Utah is already above average on size of perch in our lakes, but getting some up in the 2+ pound class wouldn't take much effort from the DWR.

Why not instead of bickering about who is right and who is wrong we all put our heads together and unite towards something more beneficial and for the better good of ALL of our fisheries as a whole and get the DWR to be more public with what they plan to do to make multi-species fishing in this state world class. I know meetings are held to get public opinions on ideas but these are in a more "closed door" mannor. They need to excersise a more "open door" policy and invite some of us to have some input. Hell some of us spend so much time studying fish behaivor and the biological aspects of what makes a great fishery that I know we have some experts among us that their opinions shared directly to the DWR might just mean something.

Let's all stop pointing the finger, we all know Trout are a priority in this state, its a draw that brings anglers from all around the globe to our little piece of earth to experience what our little fishing holes have to offer. But why not get more vocal and diverse with our opinions and give up the "single species focus" train of thought.

A more diverse outlook would help for the greater good.
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[PREDATOR]

CBR, you are much too rational to be on this site.
I think I am going to have to ban you.
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[hookemup]

T.D.
What year did you catch those perch? Does the newspaper say $.73lb for king crab legs?
(just josh`n)
btw, that ruler looks like the one my 1st grade teacher used to smack me with (1966)!
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[hedgesd]

I must be the only guy to say what a waste of time. These fish are not native and don't need to be stocked. How many fish do you think it took to ruin Mantua.

I've seen that perch in the DWR office. It's definetly bigger then any perch I've seen on this site. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that perch came from Fish Lake. A 10 inch perch is just like a 16" trout not much to brag about but taste good.
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