Transducers

[flygoddess]

[black][size 3]I am reading more and more about people putting Sonars on there tubes and toons.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I have been doing this for several years now.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I have also notice some awesome ways of putting the transducers on. From PVC, to Aluminum to even a bike kickstand so it can be retracted real easy (and this one is cool)[][/size][/black]
[black][size 3]But, because I have been doing this for years and have taken a spool of string with a weight on it and marked in feet. Dropped it down to get exact reading, then moving my transducer to get close to the same reading, I found out that it only needs to be in the water an 1" or 2". Besides, it works on a cone shape, so, the farther away from the bottom the more bottom it will show[cool][/size][/black]
[black][size 3]So, what this means is you don't really have to worry about coming up with something to swing it out of the way when you come into shore. It only needs to be EVEN with the bottom of the toon or tube. It will always be in the water, plus add your weight and it will be just right.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]So, don't be afraid to attach it to a fixed position, but I do think it needs to be pointing forward towards your feet. You will be going backwards.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I just had to get that out for those who might be interested.[cool][][/size][/black]
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[Saberfish]

[black][size 3]Hey Joni,[/size][/black]
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[size 3]Are you sure that you want the transducer pointing toward your feet if you are going backwards?[/size]
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[size 3]I really don't know that it make any difference.[/size]
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[size 3]I did see something interesting the other day on the Internet. On the West Marine site, I noticed a sonar with a 45 degree cone. I don't know if there are many other units out there with optional cone sizes, but it really appealed to me. We fish in such shallow water much of the time, that we don't see much of the bottom. [/size]
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[size 3]For the most part, the only thing that a sonar provides is depth readings. We look down, and cast where we can't see. [/size]
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[size 3]There are some good technical improvements coming up. Side Imaging is the latest. I mentioned this on another thread, and according to those that have seen it, are really impressed. They want 1200 bones for them now, but the price will go down, and the technology will improve.[/size]
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[doggonefishin]

You are right on about all points, but I think the main benefit of a non rigid mounting set-up is quick mobility to avoid scraping and dinging the transducer head during launch and return. I can quickly rotate the ducer out of harms way as I am coming in to shore.

How do you avoid ducer scrapes with a rigid system?
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[flygoddess]

[size 1]How do you avoid ducer scrapes with a rigid system? [/size]


[green][size 3]That is what I am saying. It doesn't have to be lower than the tube or toon. Mine is about 1" off the ground with the toon sitting flat. I just look for rock free launching points.[/size][/green]
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[green][size 3]The reason I say point it toward your feet is that is the area you are fishing. On a boat, it points away from the boat, but the boat is going opposit of what it is pointing. The same on a tube or toon[/size][/green].
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]You are presenting your opinions from the viewpoint of a flyflinger who uses a toon. A lot of us fish with vertical jigging presentations from a float tube. Different needs and applications.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Not a good idea to have a rigid mount, unless you only tube/toon in lakes with soft sand. No matter how careful you are in a tube, you can ding your transducer when launching, beaching or setting up in a parking lot. Better to raise and lower it than to have to buy a new transducer to replace a cracked one. Been there.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Also not a good idea to point the transducer any way except STRAIGHT DOWN. If you want side finding sonar, buy one. Regular units are designed to read the bottom at a 90 degree angle (straight down). If you point them forward the bottom becomes "slanted" and you will not get an accurate reading. And, those of us who need to know structure and composition of the bottom (grayline) will not be able to get a good reading.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are lots of different sonars and lots of "opinions" on the best way to mount them. You can set it up however you like, but do not hold forth with "absolutes"....THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. The way you fish and the requirements you have for sonar are vastly different than what most of us use them for.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been using sonar on floatation craft for about 30 years. I have "field tested" everything from flashers to paper graphs. I still don't claim to know all the answers, but I do know most of the questions. I am not trying to be confrontational, but you are not giving good advice to tubers.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

[black][size 3]You are right Tube Dude (but you already knew that[cool]) about the float tubes. I should have thought that one through. I was referring to a pontoon, because of late I am seeing a lot where they are try to mount them as deep as they can and from other reports, it can effect the way the toon floats not to mention the depth.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I do have mine mounted on my H3 so I can slide it up.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]So this is more in reference to pontoons and this is not absolute, just something to consider.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I too have been floating long enough to know people are definitely going to do what they want.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I am not sure what you mean by pointing straight down, I mount mine like you would on the back of a boat. Most transducers I have come across (not as many as you so that is why I ask) are shaped like a half of a circle (more or less) with the strip on the flat side.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I point that in the direction I will be fishing and that doesn't make any difference if you are fly or spinning.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]I found this site on transducers and there are a couple that are mounted pointing straight down, but again more for the Hull of a boat and not what use floaters are buying.[/size][/black]
[url "http://www.lei-extras.com/tips/sonartut/transducers.asp"]http://www.lei-extras.com/tips/sonartut/transducers.asp[/url]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]That is the point I was trying to make. You are referencing what you do in a pontoon and tubes are vastly different. Tubes are prone to "rock and roll" more and mounting a transducer shallow will result in it "taking air" and messing up the signal. In some cases that requires turning off the sonar and restarting it...and resetting the settings. Bother.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Toons tend to ride more stable and there is less of a problem with the transducer rocking out of the water. [b][#0000ff]Anything that adds "drag" when under power...like a transducer, will affect the tracking of a pontoon when rowing or using an electric motor. That is seldom a problem for tubers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]"Pointing straight down" refers to the beam of the sonar. Many of us use the "skimmer transducer" as pictured below. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]This transducer should ride horizontally, so that the beam that comes out the bottom shoots straight down. If it does not then you will not only get inaccurate depth readings but faulty readings on bottom structure and composition as well. It is not just for finding fish.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]The other most common transducer is the round "hull mount" model, which looks like a hockey puck. It is seldom used by tubers and tooners since it needs to be mounted on a lower surface and that can result in scraping.[/#0000ff]


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[flygoddess]

[black][size 3]I agree, a toon has a rigid frame.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]Looking at your picture of your transducer, I am saying to point the flat portion towards your feet.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]True enough it doesn't matter, but when coming into shore, IF there is something that might hit it, it will be the back side, not the lense.[/size][/black]
[black][size 3]When you said point it down, are you turning the FLAT part down or leave it pointing horizontally, like on a boat? Mine is horizontally mounted.[/size][/black]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]We are saying the same thing only different. The 'ducer mounts so that it is elongated, horizontally. There is no "lens". The beam shoots straight down from the bottom of the elongated part.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]On my mounts, I attach the transducer so that it sits at a 90 degree angle from the vertical PVC shaft. As long as I position the PVC shaft as vertically as possible, the sonar beam shoots pretty much in the same direction.[/#0000ff]
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[Majja]

And the pointy par points toward the direction you will be moving. I.E. like the Bow of a boat and the flat part is the stern. Or atleaset that is how I have mine.
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[flygoddess]

Cool[cool] In short I just wanna say, you don't need to make them real deep, I feel you are asking for problems that way. I have run into a tree underwater before, that I had no idea was there.
TD, one more for you. I have been on some nasty waters in both a tube and a toon, but I feel the toon is more likely to be air bourne than a tube....what say ye?[cool]
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[Majja]

Yeap kinda like they are saying mine is not very deep just enough to keep it in the water when I am a rocken and rollen. I would say the pc of PVC is only about 10" long at most. I think my transducer sits just below the bottom of the tube when I am in the water.

[inline transducer.jpg]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I used the term "air borne" to refer to the "rock and roll" potential of tubers, with a smaller "footprint" on the water. Every time tubers lean forward or backward, their craft is more prone to pitch and roll. If a transducer is mounted shallow, it will come out of the water on a major lean back.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I try not to be on the water when the wind is nasty enough to put me and my craft in the air. I watched "Wizard of Oz" and I don't wanna end up on the yellow brick road with Toto and some wicked witch and a bunch of flying monkeys. Too much Cuervo will do that to ya.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Other than that, it's all good.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

[black][size 3]LMAO I know exactly what you mean. I have been beaten to death before in a float tube, but in the same token, I have gotten sea sick on my toon[blush][/size][/black]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]TMI...not a good visual.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Suddenly our fun pastime is sounding kinda dangerous and violent. We are gonna scare off the newbies.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

[black][size 1][#0000ff]Suddenly our fun pastime is sounding kinda dangerous and violent. We are gonna scare off the newbies.[/#0000ff]
[/size][/black] [#008058][size 3]Well, to some point, I want newbies to understand that it is a serious decision. Your life depends on a lot of how much you learn before you venture out.[/size][/#008058]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]All too true. Some folks look only at the fun side and fail to consider that things can turn ugly on the water quickly. If we are not prepared with the right gear and the knowledge of how to use it we could become "evening news".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Being injured or drowned could just ruin a fun fishing trip.[/#0000ff]
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[doggonefishin]

TD, I am still using your "classic" ducer mounted to a PVC rod, attached to the tube by a bungee chord, (as shown in your pic above) for my Fat Cat. Are you still doing it that way or have you come up with any new innovations in that regard recently?
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[Tarpon4me]

I noticed this thread about Sonar and thought i'd jump in on the fun.

You know, i've been running boats since I was about 9 years old, and i've had sonar on every one i've opperated and owned. I don't have a tube (yet), but sonar is sonar, it doesn't matter what you mount it on.

This is a picture of a "thru hull" transducer:














Look weird? Sure it does. But it's state of the art and can be purchased for many types of sonar units. This will take the guess work out of mounting a transducer.

You obviously don't need a high powered trasducer tubing since you're not fishing in drastically deep water. If you buy a 500 dollar fish finder that links to a GPS unit and reads to 2000', that's just silly. LOL

Also, if you mount a transducer in any fashion other than how it's designed to be, the readings of the transducer will not be accurate. Think of a triangle standing up right.

[url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Triangle.Isosceles.svg"][/url]

This is pretty darn close to how the beam is projected from the transducer. Now, using the top of the triangle as the pivot point, rotate the bottom left or right a bit. What you've done is made one side of the lower beam longer than the other. The sonar unit can't distinguise what is accurate and what isn't, and just guesses (if it has an internal computer) or uses the shortest contact point as it's register. The bottom structure reading will also be inaccurate as well as the fish or bait that shows up.

There are also custom marine light "brush guards" that would be perfect to mount over an externally mounted transducer if a thru hull isn't possible, like probably with a tube. You may have cut a bar to open up the bottom so the 'ducer has a clear line of site, but it will protect it for many, many years. But, if not, the average transducer runs right around 50 bucks.

[url "http://www.nextag.com/norob/PtitleSeller.jsp?nxtg=2bb40a1c0517-7018A7D4F8A8DE36&chnl=main&tag=38156689&ctx=YMYd92egi0%2BV1nwigFe6%2F2V1fcJZRrPU&ptitle=62691111"][/url]

You'll have to add a little personal craftsmanship to get it mounted, but it's worth the 39 bucks if your so inclined. There are many more like this of different styles and material. You could also have one custom made if you are handy with a mig welder or know a good machine shop. [] I'd make my own, as I have a welder at my disposal.

I also noticed that someone was using thier fish finder for just registering depth; there is so much more to them then that. One major feature people don't know exists is the "zoom" feature. Next time you "float" over a hump on the bottom, zoom in on it. You'd be surprised what you'll find. What may look like a small hump on the bottom might actually be a golden piece of structure, or maybe even a very large fish laying on the bottom. When you see scattered little dots on the screen, that's bait. Another key thing to look for. They give you the surface temp, thermocline, and combined with a GPS can help you find and save the little honey holes you find while floating around. Alot of times it's those little unknown, small pieces of structure that hold the fish because no one fishes them. (alot of times the ones find using the Zoom feature) Learning the advanced features of the sonar units over the years is what keeps me catching fish when no one else around me can. [cool]

There are very advanced units out by choice manufacturers that provide a 3D view of the bottom using an "array" transducer. I'm not so convinced they are worth the money.

I'll end with a tip that not many people know. When a fish shows up on a fish finder, it's not the length of the tick mark that determines the size of the fish, it's the thickness from bottom to top. The length is determined by how long the fish stays in the sonars beam.



See how someof the fish are thicker and some are skinny? The length doesn't matter.

I hope this helps guys! Good luck!
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]No changes. I have tried several different systems and so far nothing is easier or faster for setup and takedown.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here is a pic from last week.[/#0000ff]
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