night fishing state park fees

[moonburnt]

fuzzy's thread got me wondering what exactly the fees were at the state parks for night fishing. so i sent an email to state parks. here's my email and their response:

[font "Arial"][size 2]mary,[/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2] i'm hoping that you may be able to help clear up some confusion for me. i'm a walleye fisherman and so my favorite state park by far is the starvation state park. i have been launching boats there for nearly 20 years. over the years i have had an occasional problem with the people working there, but nothing that's been anything more than a small irritant. most of the issues i've encounterd are the people trying to decide how much to charge me or where i should park. however, recently the issues seem to be more frequent. here's my problem: i mainly fish during the night. i like to arrive close to 10 pm and fish until 11 am or noon the following day. i normally buy an annual state park pass. i encounter a lot of confusion when i enter the park. sometimes i'm let in and out with no issues. however from time to time i'm told that i have to pay a camping fee despite having an annual pass. sometimes i'm told i have to pay a camping fee and park in a different location in spite of the fact that the parking lot is mostly empty both when i launch and when i leave the following day. my favorite: one time an employee deducted the amount of the day use fee from the amount of the camping fee and charged me the difference. i don't understand why i would be charged a camping fee for using the same parking space (usually) and ramp that people only have to pay a day use fee for. i'm not camping. i'm not using the camping facilities. i'm fishing. if i show up at 6 am and fish until 8 pm no one would dream of charging me for camping. so i don't understand why i would be charged a camping fee for fishing from 10 pm until noon? my latest pass expired in june and i'm not sure yet whether i'll buy a new one. i just don't know if it's worth the expense anymore or even if i'll be able to use it. hopefully you can clear this up for me. thanks.[/size][/font]
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[font "Arial"][size 2]by the way i have never had this problem at any of the other state parks i visit.[/size][/font]
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[font "Arial"][size 2]sincerely,[/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]trent taylor[/size][/font]
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Trent,

The fee schedule and policy for State Parks is all set by the State Park Board and all parks are suppose to follow it. Policy says that day-use ends at 10pm and so your day-use pass is not valid for overnight. We have lots of people that come here for boat camping and we have designated parking for their trucks and trailers (not the day-use only parking lots). The fee for boat camping is $13/night at Starvation. What you are doing is boat camping whether or not you fish while doing it or not. Right now there is a promotion that you get $2 off camping with a multi park pass that would make boat camping $11/ night. I called our Northeast Region office and was told that this is correct with how the policy is now, and that Jordanelle and East Canyon State Parks are charging for boat camping and that every park should be even if they are not.

I am sorry that this is not the answer that you probably wanted.

Sincerely,


Mike Nealley
Park Manager
Starvation State Park
Bus. 435-738-2326

Come and Play at Starvation
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[fuzzyfisher]

lol i love the bottom line!!

should read come and pay at starvation!!!!
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[Majja]

Any one know who is on the committee and how we go about maybe trying to change this.
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[Kent]

I have fished overnight from my boat at Strawberry. (I realize that Strawberry is not a state park.) I have been required to pay for both days, but never had to pay a camping fee (which I believe is more than having to pay day fees for two days).
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[muskyhunter]

All I got to say is GREEDY!!!!
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[moonburnt]

Board Members
Members of the Board of Utah State Parks and Recreation are appointed by the governor for their knowledge, interest, and experience in outdoor recreation, and make regulations governing the use of the state park system. This nine-member board represents each of the state's eight judicial districts and one at-large member. Our dedicated board members meet quarterly and as needed, in different regions of the state. If you have comments for board members, please contact them directly:
Karl Bentley, Member
Judicial District 7 - Carbon, Emery, Grand and San Juan counties
Marty Ott, Member
Judicial District 6 - Sanpete, Sevier, Piute, Wayne, Garfield and Kane counties
William Bleak, Member
Judicial District 3 - Tooele, Salt Lake and Summit counties
Irene Hansen, Member
Judicial District 8 - Duchesne, Daggett and Uintah counties
Joseph Hull
Judicial District 2 - Davis, Weber and Morgan counties
Scott Parson, Member
Representing the Public At Large
Eli Anderson
Judicial District 1 - Box Elder, Cache and Rich counties
Lois Bulloch
Judicial District 5 - Beaver, Iron and Washington counties
Glenn Greenhalgh
Judicial District 4 - Wasatch, Utah, Juab and Millard counties

i know i'll be contacting them. well as soon as i figure out how to contact them as i have yet to find any contact info. as soon as i find the contact info i'll post it. hopefully we can get together enough support to get rid of this ridiculous fee.
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[mactuna]

I agree, if your not sleeping your not camping. Typical answer only suites the ones making the rules. We also fish at night and pay for sleeping on the boat and we are fishing all night.
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[Vivid-Dawn]

I was planning on fishing Willard for Walleye next spring.
I'm poor, and getting my doctor to verify that I'm disabled, so I can get the free pass. So it'd be sort of silly to still have to pay a camping fee!
So here's what I'll try (or maybe somebody try before me, and see how it works out, and report back?). Arrive at around 8 P.M., so it's still day use... then just "forget" to come back in after 10! Think it'll work? [angelic]
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[fuzzyfisher]

ok guy's going to the board members will not get ya very far! the ones that can realy make a diffrence is the water user's, the BLM, and the governor of the state... they all can over ride the state parks board !

i dont know who it would be for Starvation.. but i do for Yuba! if you want to see action done on Yuba contact IPP in delta! they are the bigest % of the water users of that system.. and they have a contract with the state to manage the lakes and water... but if the pepole start complaning about it they can and will pull they'er contract.. then the state park's and DWR can say bye bye to a ton of money!! it works!! beleve me!
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[Kent]

[quote Vivid-Dawn]So here's what I'll try (or maybe somebody try before me, and see how it works out, and report back?). Arrive at around 8 P.M., so it's still day use... then just "forget" to come back in after 10! Think it'll work? [angelic][/quote]

Works fine until you come back in the AM and find a ticket on your vehicle. Forgetting to come back in doesn't change the reality that your vehicle is still parked overnight.
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[fuzzyfisher]

here is one other thing i found that should and can be used to help!!

the Utah Supreme court decision on Easement!

first page 7th paragraf: Analys's:

quote word for word: our analys's begins with a review of public ownership and private owership rights in the beds that lie beneath those waters we then review the district court's decision regarding the scope of the public's easement in state waters.

I. STATE WATERS ARE OWNED BY THE PUBLIC WHICH HAS AN EASEMENT TO USE THOSE WATERS WHILE THE BED OF THE STATE WATERS MAY BE PRIVATELY OWNEN.

8th.
by statute ALL waters in this state whether above or under ground are HEREBY DECLARED TO BE PROPERTY OF THE PUBLIC, subject to ALL EXISTING RIGHT'S TO THE USE THEROF.
under this doctrine of the public ownership the public owns state waters and has an easemet over the water REGARLESS OF WHO OWNS!..

Utah code Ann 73-1-1 (supp.2007) see see also Adams V Portage Irrigation, Reservoir and power Co. 72.2d 648 652 (Utah 1937) (holding that waters in utah are of two classes private and public and title to public waters " is in the public; ALL ARE EQUAL OWNERS THAT IS HAVE COEQUAL RIGHTS THEREIN!..


so in that rulling i find nothing saying the state parks have any rights to charge a fee to use the water! in fact it say's the water belongs to the public and is owened by each and everyone in utah...

in fact under that rulling it sounds to me that the State parks board is brakeing the law by denying ACCESS to the public by charging a FEE!
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[lunkerhunter2]

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[sly][shocked]
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[cat_man]

I wish that would work. State Park fees are not charging for use of the water. They are charging for use of the facilities - the boat ramp, the bathrooms, fish cleaning stations, etc.

If you launched your boat from the state park boat ramp, parked your truck in their lot, etc. you used the facilities and they charged a fee for it.

Unfortunately the ruling doesn't force the state anymore than it forces private landowners - to allow free access across the land to get to the water.
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[fuzzyfisher]

yes it does! the land is also owen by the public! privet yes

and your point of use of the water will not hold if the state is charging a fee to boat camp! you are staying on the water and not useing the facilites? where is the right to charge? the rulling is the water belongs to the public not the state parks.. there for as long as your on the water you have the right of easement!
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[cat_man]

Ya I thought of that too - the boat camping argument has merit but not the state park access (launch) fees like day use fees.
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[fuzzyfisher]

i thought of the launch thing as well! at Starvation there is old highway 40 running into the lake at Indian creek and at rabbit gulch not good ramps but useable! old high way 40 is public property at least 110 feet of it is.. the state parks have no right to charge Access to this road! if the road was billt by the state, county, or city it is public access!
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[MRCRESTLINER]

Food for thought, so If I have a State Park Pass and launch my boat during day use hrs. then park my truck outside the gate and fish all night then retrieve my truck the next morning I would still be considered camping? Or launch a small boat off the shore in some other location on the lake and fish all night I still have to pay a camping fee? Sounds like BS to me. [mad]
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[fuzzyfisher]

well right now there is NO free access to boats on Yuba OR Starvation! so yes you would be charged more for driveing your truck out and bringing it back in.. inless you have a day pass.. 9.00 day use 2 days is 18.00 bucks.. 1 night is 16.00.. and you would still be charged for camping ether way! [:/]
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[PaHnTr760]

Thats one of the biggest gripes i have with Utah. Pay to acess waters. Alot of money if forked out towards all of these water ways and I dont see any difference in the facilities between Utah and other states.
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[fuzzyfisher]

and in most other states if it is public land and water by law there must be free public access!
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