700 BILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT

[theangler]

MAKES ME JUST WANT TO PUKE!!!!!
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[davetclown]

36 million people in this country, when you do the math, that is avraged out to 20,000 per every man woman and child.... [#ff0000]so I ask[/#ff0000], " WHO TOOK THE MONEY AND RAN?"

if they want to bail out wall street, give us the money [crazy]

then wallstreet may have something to invest in to... Putting the mony in to the money pit dont help us....

just more corporate wellfare....
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[theangler]

AMEN DAVE!!!

I am glad it didn't fly!!!!
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[wiperhunter2]

I sure hope those bozos come up with a better plan than the last one. All the CEO's of companies that will benefit from this should go to jail to start with.
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[gdn443]

Heres an interesting read:
[font "Tahoma"]Has anyone, including our elected officials, done the math with this massive 700 billion dollar bail-out program? I said massive, but it should be criminal. There are approximately 300 million citizens of the United States, divide $700,000,000,000.00 by 300,000,000 people and you come up with $23.3 million dollars per person![/font]
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[font "Tahoma"]What I'd like to know is: 1) Where is this money going to come from? 2) Just how many people are going into foreclosure and what was their houses/loan worth and 3) Who's going to handle the money?[/font]
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[font "Tahoma"]If every single person in the U.S. owned a house (including children), and defaulted on their loan, only then would it equal 700 billion dollars but only if every house was worth 23.3 million dollars. [/font]
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[font "Tahoma"][size 2][font "Arial"][size 3]I think that the government has thrown around these multi-billion dollar figures for so long that no one thinks about what it really costs each and every person in this country. You can't tell me that there is 700 billion in bad housing loans, especially when you do the math! I think this is one big rip-off of the American people! Follow the money and see who is going to be handling it.[/size][/font]


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[font "Arial"][size 3]Republican or Democrat, you need to see these facts. My personal opinion would be to pursue the management of the failed companies just like the ENRON management was pursued. [b][font "Arial"]Follow the money![/font][/b][/size][/font]
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[font "inherit"][#3062c4][size 5]Market Commentary[/size][/#3062c4][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Congress says it likely will adjourn this month having done nothing on the most important issue in America right now: the financial meltdown from the subprime-lending crisis.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Can Congress just walk away from a problem it helped create? Maybe, maybe not. [/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]There's now some talk of a grand deal between the Treasury, the Fed and Congress for a "permanent" solution: creating a government agency to buy up all the bad subprime debt, just like the Resolution Trust Corp. did with bad real estate in the 1980s and 1990s.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Already, the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve are spending hundreds of billions of dollars to keep the subprime crisis from crashing the world economy. The collapse of twin mortgage giants [b][font "Arial"]Fannie Mae[/font][/b] and [b][font "Arial"]Freddie Mac[/font][/b], along with the failures of [b][font "Arial"]Lehman Bros.[/font][/b], Bear Stearns and insurer [b][font "Arial"]AIG[/font][/b], expose taxpayers to more than $1 trillion in liabilities.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Until now, Congress has been surprisingly passive. As Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid put it, "no one knows what to do" right now.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Funny, since it was a Democrat-led Congress that helped cause the problems in the first place.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]When House Speaker Nancy Pelosi recently barked "no" at reporters for daring to ask if Democrats deserved any blame for the meltdown, you saw denial in action.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Pelosi and her followers would have you believe this all happened because of President Bush and his loyal Senate lapdog, John McCain. Or that big, bad predatory Wall Street banks deserve all the blame."[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]The American people are not protected from the risk-taking and the greed of these financial institutions," Pelosi said recently, as she vowed congressional hearings.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Only one problem: It's untrue.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Yes, banks did overleverage and take risks they shouldn't have. [/size][/black][/font]
[b][font "Arial"][black][size 2]But the fact is, President Bush in 2003 tried desperately to stop Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from metastasizing into the problem they have since become.[/size][/black][/font][/b]
[b][font "Arial"][black][size 2]Here's the lead of a New York Times story on Sept. 11, 2003: "The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."[/size][/black][/font][/b]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Bush tried to act. Who stopped him? Congress, especially Democrats with their deep financial and patronage ties to the two government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie and Freddie."[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Rep. Barney Frank, then ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]It's pretty clear who was on the right side of that debate.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]As for presidential contender John McCain, just two years after Bush's plan, McCain also called for badly needed reforms to prevent a crisis like the one we're now in."[/size][/black][/font]
[b][font "Arial"][black][size 2]If Congress does not act," McCain said in 2005, "American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole."[/size][/black][/font][/b]
[black][size 2]Sounds like McCain w[#0000ff][size 2]as [/size][/#0000ff] spot on.[/size][/black]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]But Congress, too, ignored his warnings.To hear today's Democrats, you'd think all this started in the last couple years. But the crisis began much earlier. [b][font "Arial"]The Carter-era Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to lend to uncreditworthy borrowers, mostly in minority areas.[/font][/b][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]Age-old standards of banking prudence got thrown out the window. In their place came harsh new regulations requiring banks not only to lend to uncreditworthy borrowers, but to do so on the basis of race.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]President Clinton supercharged these well-intended rules in the early 1990s. [b][font "Arial"]Despite warnings from GOP members of Congress in 1992, Clinton pushed extensive changes to the rules requiring lenders to make questionable loans.Lenders who refused would find themselves castigated publicly as racists. As noted this week in an IBD editorial, no fewer than four federal bank regulators scrutinized financial firms' books to make sure they were in compliance.Failure to comply meant your bank might not be allowed to expand lending, add new branches or merge with other companies.[/font][/b] Banks were given a so-called "CRA rating" that graded how diverse their lending portfolio was.It was economic hardball."We have to use every means at our disposal to end discrimination and to end it as quickly as possible," Clinton 's comptroller of the currency, Eugene Ludwig, told the Senate Banking Committee in 1993.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]And they meant it.In the name of diversity, banks began making huge numbers of loans that they previously would not have. They opened branches in poor areas to lift their CRA ratings. Meanwhile, Congress gave Fannie and Freddie the go-ahead to finance it all by buying loans from banks, then repackaging and securitizing them for resale on the open market.That's how the contagion began.With those changes, the subprime market took off. From a mere $35 billion in loans in 1994, it soared to $1 trillion by 2008.Wall Street eagerly sold the new mortgage-backed securities. Not only were they pooled investments, mixing good and bad, but they were backed with the implicit guarantee of government.Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac grew to become monsters, accounting for nearly half of all U.S. mortgage loans. [/size][/black][/font]
[font "Arial"][black][size 2]At the time of their bailouts this month, they held $5.4 trillion in loans on their books. About $1.4 trillion of those were subprime.As they grew, Fannie and Freddie grew heavily involved in "community development," giving money to local housing rights groups and "empowering" the groups, such as ACORN, for whom Barack Obama once worked in Chicago.Warning signals were everywhere. Yet at every turn, Democrats in Congress halted attempts to stop the madness. It happened in 1992, again in 2000, in 2003 and in 2005. It may happen this year, too.Since 1989, Fannie and Freddie have spent an estimated $140 million on lobbying Washington. [/size][/black][/font]
[b][font "Arial"][black][size 2]They contributed millions to politicians, mostly Democrats, including Senator Chris Dodd (No. 1 recipient) and Barack Obama (No. 3 recipient, despite only three years in office).[/size][/black][/font][/b][font "Arial"][black][size 2]The Clinton White House used Fannie and Freddie as a patronage job bank. [b][font "Arial"]Former executives and board members read like a who's who of the Clinton-era Democratic Party, including Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, Jim Johnson and current Rep. Rahm Emanuel.Collectively, they and others made well more than $100 million from Fannie and Freddie, whose books were cooked Enron-style during the late 1990s and early 2000s to ensure executives got their massive bonuses.[/font][/b]They got the bonuses. You g et the bill.[/size][/black][/font][font "inherit"][#3062c4] [/#3062c4][/font]
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read:
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[southernman]

your math is all wrong....... ok so now the senate has made it a 850 billion bailout, and we get some tax breaks, well if you arent making it , what good is a tax break ?


sm
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[theangler]

The thing I don't get also is, "IF AMERICANS HAVE ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR THEY DON'T WANT IT (WHICH THEY CLEARLY HAVE), WHY IS IT EVEN STILL ON THE TABLE?

Oh, it's because the politicains are protecting us from ourselves , right????????????


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[Fishhound]

[#008000]Just wondering; [/#008000]
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[#008000]Did you do the math ?[/#008000]
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[#008000]Just a thought.[/#008000]
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[wiperhunter2]

I agree, this whole thing is a crock. In the real world companies go under every day and no one bails them out. I say let them go under but help the home owners keep the houses. I agree with Gdn443, there is no way it could add up to that much money.
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[fyshrmn]

they can keep the 23 just give me the .3 and ill pay off my morgage and the rest of my loans and have money for the kids college

[gdn443]

I didn't do the math on this, it was sent to me by email. But it does show as does DaveT that it's a tad more money than is needed for a bailout on mortgages. I do like the writing on a tax break for us and limiting the ceo's golden parachute. When the day is done, they need to fire some folks for a very bad job done.
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[Fishhound]

[quote gdn443]I didn't do the math on this, it was sent to me by email.
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[#008000]I kind of figured as much - just for giggles, you should break out your calculator and give it a go.[/#008000]

[quote gdn443]I do like ... limiting the ceo's golden parachute. When the day is done, they need to fire some folks for a very bad job done.[/quote]

[#008000]Agreed ! Funny how those folks seem to get an incredible bonus even when they bury their vehicle in the mud all they way to the windshield wipers.[/#008000]
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[#008000]Kind of reminds me of that joke ... where somebody says that they would rather die peacefully in their sleep like their grandpa did, and not screeming in terror like their grandpa's passengers.[/#008000]
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[gdn443]

My calculater won't go that high, so if some one has one that does, I'd be curious on the right number. I saw Nardelli take over Home Depot when I still worked there and run the company to the ground in sales and moral. He walked with Millions. That needs to stop. If we read some of the fine print in this bail out, you'll find some pork barrel tax breaks to get the congree peaple a reason to vote for it. Tax break for a nascar event down south?? Just one example in USA Today friday paper. Why am I not surprised.
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[Troll]

I prefer to give it only to taxpayers, there are about 20 million of them.

That gets about 42K for each. 84 K for a married couple. Give every taxpayer a single lump sum payback of $42,000 and I'll show you economic stimulus!
Most would gladly dump 1/2 on their mortgage or use it for a down payment as part of the deal. This would give banks much needed cash and cut their liabilities in 1/2 as mortages are paid down. It would also give cash to be loaned to the new home buyers and stimulate job growth and construction.
All using recent credit qualifications, of course, and with 21K down.
Most will use the rest to buy a car, CA-CHING, fire up the auto plants again and get that line of super efficient CNG and electric cars going first, there is enough SUV stock at the dealers to last a couple of years.
Now, I would pay off my credit cards and do home improvements with the rest, a few would save, but the rest would buy products and good times. Some of which would stimulate the economy some would stimulate China's. But no matter, housing construction is up, banks are OK and manufacturing is coming back. Don't forget the whole world will want out modern effecient CNG powered cars and trucks, not those japanese gas guzzlers that send out dollars to overseas terrorist supporting nations, un employment is down, spending up, tax revenue up from more wages being earned and more of them being spent...
Inflation is back, and it's good to have ya!
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[Wyobraz]

I have seen several similar e-mails like the one you recieved, and they all need to do a fact check with the math.

The one you recieved done with the correct math would give the 300 million people $2333 a peice not the $23 million it says.
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[gdn443]

Thanks for doing the math Wyobraz. Looks like they added a few 000"s to the correct number. Bail out stills stinks, but what choice do we have at this point? [:/]
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[cat_man]

I did the math on calc on my computer, and yep, it's 2333. The calculator on your computer will go that high.
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[davetclown]

Why not give to the people on food stamps. Look what a fist full of dollars did for obama[:p] From being a food stamp baby to running for president....

now you know while they are giving out honey roll dole to the rich, they are going out after the poor hook claw and cleaver trying to collect a couple dollars from them. if they have a couple thou behind in taxes they are fined megga bucks... why isnt major corporations?

I finaly got my income tax return back the other day, they skimmed exactly $2.oo off of it after their audit.... "doing the rounding down math method" can you emagine how much it must have cost to do an audit only to skim 2 bucks? It cost more in postage than they were able to skim off the top....[crazy]

one thing for sure,

[ul][li]I wont see no tax break[/li][li]I wont see no 5000 dollar tax credit on medical expences. and if he is going to tax medical benifits I know a lot of people who will get put in to the poor house in the first month. one hospitol visit is a major expence.[/li][li]so if they raise my tax allowance from 3k to 5k or 7k, guess what? it still dont matter cause I wont get back one dollar more.... I pay property taxes, not income taxes, you have to have an income to pay an income tax..... some body over seas is getting my income, go collect the tax from them or better yet collect it from the guys who sent my job over seas in the first place they can afford it cause they are reaping the bennifits of the cheap labor....[/li][/ul]I agree that the money should "NOT" go to wall street. it will vanish in to thin air like all the other money did when bush was elected ticking off some people who then hired binladin to do his worst. "he is a paid hinchman and nothing more" Even with his camebridge education..[crazy]

What has happened is the money has been sucked up to the point where every american is now 10-50 years in debt on avarage with no forseable stable financial future.

corporate wallstreat and the united states government has no one to blame but them selves. Franklin Rosivelt put in place common sence business regulations that taxed business owners for sending jobs over seas. now we have a government that pays business owners to send them over seas.. yes both republicans and democrats from nixon to reagon bush clinton and the other bush all had major parts in the dismanteling of the regulatory pratices set up by FDR....

If I got the money I could pay off the 40k of debt I have aquired against my home in the last 5 years because of the cost of living hikes....

some buy out, the government wants to buy my home mortgage, Why? "why not give us the money to pay it off insted so every body wins?"

the worst part about this buy out is that the government has to print the 700 billion + 1.5 billion in pork belly spending.... so much for the value of the american dollar....

can you say "deflation"

when they anounced a few weeks back GM stock dropped to $8.50 a share and it haddent been that low since the 1950's, well guess what, in 1950's for $50 dollars you could buy an acre of land where I live. that same acre of land today is now valued at 150,000 with nothing on it...

for 8.50 you could fill up your car and stop and feed your self and 4 kids at mc donalds on the way to grandma's house out in the contry. today you will be lucky to feed your self and one kid for the same.

so todays $8.50 compaired to yester years $8.50 is no compairison at all, your talking pennies on the dollar today to what the dollar was worth in 1950's

point being is when you hear a stock dropped to what it was 10 years ago, it means the company value is worth less than what it was back then not droped to the value of what it was then...

what kills me about the whole thing is these people are making money hand over fist in other contries. they used our money to build over there and ship the products back here... ya they are major importers and exporters from there to here.....

the whole thing is criminal for sure, and guess what, these criminals may not be able to carry guns them selves, they do have hired guns protecting them.
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[davetclown]

my math wasnt much better,

[size 2]December 28, 2000 [/size]
The United States Census Bureau released the official results of each state's population based on the complete count of the 2000 Census and announced that the official population of the United States is 281,421,906

add the number of imigrants they have allowed in to the contry leagaly or illeagaly for a ball park figure of 300 mill...

ya when you get to billion numbers only a computer with excel or other office math programs has the math capabilities for this out ragous and outlandish greasing of the palms of the rich...
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[davetclown]

I am a little late for posting this, about a week, but

[center]THERE GOES ANOTHER 48 BILLION...
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