Red Fleet walleye

[crankem]

Good Lord guys (and gals). It really makes me appreciate moving to Wyo.
Just spent 20 days at Boysen res. (18 miles from my house) and the fishing has been great.
Walleyes up to 29 1/2 inchs, rainbows to 8# (caught unintentionally) 13 to 15 in. black crappies and some jurasic perch.
Very few power squadren people and just about have the lake to our self during the week.
The only thing I miss about Utah is my kids and friends.
It's amazing how crossing a state line can make your fishing and peace of mind so much better[cool]
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[packfish]

Canada/Utah- you're comparing apples an oranges.
I'm from the Lake Eire- brother still guides there-
It's not like I don't have some understanding of walleye-
you're just not talking about the same ball game.
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[PBH]

[quote fuzzyfisher]why are you saying (you idiots?) [/quote]

If you took offense to that comment, maybe you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror!

I say "you" idiots because I knew what kind of things people would say in response to the walleye showing up in Red Fleet.

Just read through the comments on this thread. Idiotic.


comments like "walleye are controllable in Canada, why not here?". And, "utah only wants trout". And "It's producing 6lb walleye already, why the panic?". And "somebody put them in Pineview!"

Ignorance is not an excuse to move fish around to wherever people want.

Walleye are a problem everywhere in the west. They don't belong in the west. If you truly believe that Idaho and Wyoming do such a fantastic job with walleye, then by all means go to Idaho and Wyoming to catch them. There is a huge difference between natural lakes in Canada and RESERVOIRS in Utah.

As far as Boysen Reservoir goes -- those "top level predators" (walleye) are getting out competed by those yellow perch. Even Boysen won't last forever...



for the record: us trout guys aren't exempt from this. We have the same problems with people moving different trout species around as well. Brook trout can be devastating to fisheries if put in the wrong places. So, this isn't a trout vs. walleye thing. It's a crying shame that anglers believe that they can move fish around and make places better. Here's a news flash: Biologists are anglers too! They want fisheries to be as good as possible. That means that if they thought walleye (or brook trout, or perch, or smallies, or wipers) would improve a fishery and make it better, they'd put the things in fishery themselves!! Why do anglers feel the need to play bucket biologist??
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[PBH]

Walleye in Idaho:
[url "http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/17/1234381/idaho-has-good-reasons-for-lack.html"]http://www.idahostatesman.com/...easons-for-lack.html[/url]


Not just an issue in Utah -- Wyoming has illegal walleye issues too:

http://powelltribune.com/index.php/conte...w/1075/34/
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[walleyebob]

Really? Apples and Oranges. O.K. you being all knowing Walleye guy, explain why Walleye have done fine in Deer Creek for the past forty years without much management.What about Utah Lake? A totally different type of lake and still a thriving Walleye water. IN UTAH! Imagine that.
Red Fleet seems to be more like the Canadian Walleye waters than either of these waters, so why will Red Fleet automatically be a boom and bust cycle?
Yuba is the only place that has had a serious boom and bust cycle and that has more to do with farmers controlling the water than the fish in the water.
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[crankem]

PBH
Talking to the locals here (and the state head fishing biologist) The walleyes have never "crashed" since introduction.
They have had bad spawning years with a lack of age class fish, but the eyes in Boysen pretty much are staying stable.
A big reason for this is the state G&F do plant forage in the form of emerald shiners, fat head minnows and a few other speices that I can't remember.
In other words Wyo. does recognize walleyes as an important game fish and manage them as such. Something that Utah will not do.
If the eyes were so detrimental to the other game fish trout, crappie. perch and bass Boysen sure is not a good example.
This is my 14 year fishing this lake and it seems to me that the eyes are just as strong now if not better than than when I first started coming up here.
When Utah finally gets their head out of where the sun don't shine and takes a pro active approach to "managing" waters for walleyes It can be done.
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[PBH]

[quote walleyebob]Really? Apples and Oranges. O.K. you being all knowing Walleye guy, explain why Walleye have done fine in Deer Creek for the past forty years without much management.What about Utah Lake? A totally different type of lake and still a thriving Walleye water. IN UTAH! Imagine that.
Red Fleet seems to be more like the Canadian Walleye waters than either of these waters, so why will Red Fleet automatically be a boom and bust cycle? [/quote]

are you serious?

OK. Here goes:

1. Walleye are native to central Canada and the midwest US. They evolved there. The natural ecosystems have "built-in" controls to maintain healthy populations of both the predators and the prey. Here in Utah, walleye are not native. They didn't evolve here and mother nature has not provided any natural systems to help maintain healthy populations.

2. Red Fleet is a reservoir, not a natural lake. This means that (just like Yuba) water levels fluctuate. This creates problems for prey species that depend on high water levels to support natural reproduction. Without the prey species ability to maintain a population, how will the predator species maintain a healthy population? FWIW, walleye have an easier time reproducing than perch do.

3. Walleye in Deer Creek done fine? That subject is highly debatable.

4. Utah Lake. Probably the suited water in Utah for walleye. Large lake, little fluctuation in water level, numerous other prey species. Good lake for walleye. Compare it to Red Fleet, which is a relatively small reservoir (520 acres compared to Utah Lake at over 96,000 acres, and compared to Boysen at over 19,000 acres) whose water is used for irrigation. Prey species are nearly non-existant, as Red Fleet is already too heavy on the predator side of the scale.

5. Red Fleet like a Canadian walleye water? Really? How so? You mean surrounded by red navajo sand-stone? Or is it the juniper and pinyon forest surroudning it? Or maybe that it's an irrigation impoundment? You mean the large mouth bass? A Canadian like water, eh? You been drinking too much Molsen.



crankem -- Boysen very well may be a good fit for walleye. The majority of Utah waters have proven to not be. Some work out fine (Powell, Utah Lake). Most don't. You claim that Utah won't manage for walleye. I counter that Utah does: they recognize the numerous issues that Utah waters have supporting walleye and do what they can to keep them isolated to specific waters. UDWR has done everyhting in their power to manage for walleye at Yuba. Unfortunately, Yuba simply isn't a good fit to sustain healthy populations of walleye, as history has shown. Red Fleet won't be a good fit for walleye.
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[fuzzyfisher]

yet these are the same Biologist you praise some much that planted striper's in lake powell not haveing any idea that they not only could spown in the lake but it being the perfict spowing conditions that could be found almost anywhere? and the same guy's that planted small mouth bass in otter creek and piute with no idea that they would move down stream to yuba? or the same guy's that have NO comprehensive plan to rid any of Utah waters of the most destructive and invasive of aquactic species know to date CARP! other than the fedral gov forcing there hand on Utah lake.. or the same guy's that planted walleye in starvation than after they did there job so well on killing chub tryed to starve them to death? same guy's that had no idea that the perch in yuba would spown so fast and over poplate in a 5 year time frame and crash becouse the walleye were not in place to help control there numbers and to add to problem would not let fishermen help ether tell after the crash?
sometime i have to wounder if they realy have any clue them selfs..
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[PBH]

fuzzball -- you're really stretching things. Stripers? Come on -- there were no landlocked self-sustaining populations of stripers prior to Powell / Mead.

Small mouth in Otter Creek and Piute -- and not knowing that they can swim downstream? Give the guys a little credit. Who ever said they didn't know this, or plan for it?

You imply that it was the biologists that wouldn't allow a regulation change to allow harvest of perch in Yuba. However, the biologists were FOR it. Too bad biologists don't make regulations in Utah. That's up to the Wildlife Board, not the biologists.


anyway -- you think Red Fleet can support a walleye population? What are they going to eat? And, even worse, what happens when they show up in the Gorge?
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[walleyebob]

Really? Are you serious? So, Walleye cant survive in Juniper trees? I didn't know they even cared what kind of trees were around the lake. No Juniper in Canada?
Red Fleet is a fairly high elevation lake that has rocky shoreline(again I don't think the fish care that much what kind of rocks), it is fairly deep for its size so it doesnt get too hot and has lots of points and structure.
Is it just that Walleye are more aggressive if they are South of 42 degrees and west of 108 degrees?
Red Fleet is a reservoir yes. Thats the only thing you got right. Yuba drops faster than just about any other reservoir, so the Perch eggs are left high and dry during the spawn. Are all of the Walleye waters in Canada natural? I know many of the Walleye waters in the midwest are reservoirs.
And what is debatable about the Walleye in Deer Creek? They are still there right? It hasnt been poisoned or managed much, right? There hasnt been a year since I started fishing Walleye seriously that I havent caught them there.Many huge eyes are caught every year in DC.
And the drinking comment. Can you have a real debate without being childish?
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[PBH]

Bob -- you compared Red Fleet to a "canadian" type walleye water. What characteristics does Red Fleet share with a "canadian" walleye water?

What characteristics of Red Fleet make it a good candidate to be a walleye water?

FWIW -- Red Fleet sits at an elevation (something you brought up, not me) of 5,600 ft. (not exactly high elevation). But, compare it to traditional Canadian areas:

the highest point in Manitoba, Canada (Mount Baldy) is 2,727 ft.

the highest point in Saskatchewan, Canada (Cypress Hills) is 4,816 ft.

Minnesota? Try Eagle Mountain at 2,301 ft.


Comparing Canada or the midwest fisheries to Utah is a very difficult thing to do. They are just plain too different to make comparisons to.
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[fuzzyfisher]

now there is the power bait hucker i have come to know and love to hate! [sly]...

but i never said that walleye were a good thing for red fleet or that i surport any of the activitys the bucket bozo's do.. just saying that even the guy that are supose to know what they are do get it wrong too! [crazy]

and most of all like you are trying to inflame the members here. i was trying to inflame you! did it work?
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[PBH]

[quote fuzzyfisher]

and most of all like you are trying to inflame the members here. i was trying to inflame you! did it work?[/quote]

This is my thread. You've replied twice now. Who's fishing for who?
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[fuzzyfisher]

4 times now cant you count?
ooh my bad the one i posted last night did not go through i guess..
so now it's only 3..
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[walleyebob]

Elevation not as much an issue as water temps. We are further south, so a warmer climate. But high mountain reservoirs still maintain cooler water. Much like the water temps in lakes further north at lower altitudes.And I'm pretty sure the world record Walleye came from Arkansas. Thats a tad bit south of here last time I checked.
And I still dont get the huge difference between Utah and the midwest fisheries. Too difficult to compare? Why?
The biggest difference is just how they are managed.
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[gstott]

One pretty big difference is they get a lot more rain. We live in a desert, our reservoirs get drawn down. It sucks, but that's how it is out here.
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[CROSSINEYES]

if they show up in fg i will be stoked!!!! mac,s and eyes do pritty well in the waters all over the us and canada. they will play hell on the small burbot... not to mention grow very big... i wish we had moore rivers with eyes as well. the green river has plenty of rainbows to sustain a good pop of WALLEYE... o to dream...[:p]
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[JustinRobinsreo]

mike4cobra wrote:[/quote]
(somebody dump em in pineview![sly]) [/quote]

I heard through the grapevine that someone has been stocking Pineview with Walleye for the last 5-10 years from fish he catches at Willard. Take it for what it's worth...just heard it through the grapevine. Tried getting a name...but wasn't able to. Just know it was a BFT member supposedly.
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[walleyebob]

Well, irrigation demands and rising/falling waters will make a big difference. I have read articles about fishing Walleye in the Mississippi where the water fluctuates six feet in an hour due to raising and lowering locks. I'm not positive, but I havent heard of that happening on any of our reservoirs due to irrigation demands
The fact of the matter is that Walleye do not mean the death of a lake or reservoir. They need to be managed different than Trout. Thats it. And they need to be managed by someone that can make changes as changes need to be made. Here in Utah, that aint gonna happen because of the politics involved.Thats why hatchery pets are so good for our slow to react DWR. Not that its the fault of the DWR, its just a fact that they need to ponder things for a few years and talk the politicians into any changes. Not the best thing for managing predators of any kind.
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[packfish]

I just get the feeling from these posts that many feel that the DWR gets to call all it's own shots and has bottomless pockets as far as $$$ goes. I'm leaning that this possibly could be a misconception by many.
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