Science, Art or Luck?

[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]During this winter to spring transition time (sprinter) we have a lot of fishing downtime with wind and the water temps are still warming up enough for good fishing. Of course, some diehards (Dubob) are fighting to hold off the full onset of open water as long as they can. That creates even more stress, as evidenced by the regular contributions.

Every year we have a few times when there is more typing than fishing going on at BFT. And we all get to either contribute to the "discussions" or enjoy them from the anonymity of our computer screens. Some are fun. Others less so.

Here's an off-season topic that is always fun to bat around. Ask yourself...and answer honestly...is my fishing success more a matter of science, art or luck? Use the daffynitions below to help you with your personal answers.

SCIENCE: Combining the latest in technology with accumulated knowledge gained from personal studies and experience.

ART: The application of personal knowledge and experience, combined with developed skills and unique natural abilities.

LUCK: The only possible explanation for anybody else catching the first, most and/or biggest fish.

One of my favorite examples of these factors coming into play on any given fishing trip is the use of sonar. Non-fishing folks often sneer at anglers who use "fish finders" as being unsportsmanlike...not playing fair with the fishies. How could they know how much knowledge and experience goes into being able to properly use the electronics to find fish...and then to make the right presentation with the right lure or bait. Nor do they realize that for many of us a sonar system often serves only to drive us nuts by telling us there are fish down there that we can't catch?

Another good example was a report I got last summer, from a relative newbie. He was bewildered by the array of choices on the wall of lures at his favorite tackle emporium. So he just raided his dad's old tackle box and took some of the red and white wobblers (Dardevles) he found there. Turned out he was catching more fish than anybody else on his stretch of shoreline...or in the passing boats. Sometimes older is better and the new technology catches more fishermen than fish.

Anybody else got some fun stuff to share?
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[fish_fear_me2]

Those old red and white daredevils still catch a lot of fish across the country even these days.
As you mentioned fish finders I think back to my early days ice fishing. Back then I carried a 5 gal bucket, a hand ice auger and a pole. Inside the ice bucket were an ice scoop and a very small amount of tackle and some bait, usually night crawlers. The bucket served both as my tackle box and my chair!!! Today i have a gas auger, several poles, more comfortable chairs, shelters, sleds etc.The question is do I catch more fish? I dont think so!! There are many factors including technology that help with our fishing endeavors but nothing can replace lots of time on the water, knowing your water and the fishy prey that you pursue. Of course lady luck and a little help from ma nature are nice too. I am sure you recall those less technilogical times in a truck tire for a float tube.
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[Tin-Can]

[#0000ff]ART: The application of personal knowledge and experience, combined with developed skills and unique natural abilities.

LUCK: The only possible explanation for anybody else catching the first, most and/or biggest fish. [/#0000ff]

TD, I would have to say that my success is a mixture of both. Depending where I'm fishing. My sons and I seem to have "broken the code" for us at least, at East Canyon. We only fish in late fall just before ice-up, and early Spring just after the thaw. 2 reasons, the water is too cold for all the skiers and PWC wranglers, and seems the fish are closer to the surface and hungrier. We have a Rapala box that is marked "East Canyon" because it has the Rapala #7 lures in the colors that have given us our limits plus evary time we use them. We don't keep many trout, and just have a ball doin the CPR thing.
For WB, well we are still educating ourselves on that body of water. Seems very little works as well each and every time. Last year, everything I caught while trolling, at whatever speed, was on a lipless rattle trap in a gold and black. And I do mean EVERYTHING. Walleye, Wiper, Cats, and even a couple Carp, and one Gizzard Shad so big I thought it was a small Wiper. (Glad I compared it to the proclamation, and turned it loose)
Do you think I can find another of those lures anywhere ? Several BFTers have looked at a photo I posted last year (including you I think) and the only thing I know for sure, is that it ISN'T a Bill Lewis RT. My luck it will be hot again this year, and I'll snag it and lose it. But that is both the fun, and sometimes the disappointment of fishin in general.
They called it Fishing, because Gambling was already taken.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Two words that should be avoided in "fish talk"...never and always. What we carry in our tackle boxes...and/or tie on our lines at any given water...is purely a matter of personal preference. And the only REAL factor that matters is how it works for US. Who cares what the other guys are using or what they think about what we use?

But, ya know, it's funny (ha ha) that if you do a survey of a hundred (or a thousand) anglers who fish the same waters and enjoy regular success, you will usually end up with almost as many different opinions on what is the best time to fish, the best lures and the best ways to fish them. On the same waters...the same day...you catch the heck out of the fish on one lure, and other guys do the same with completely different lures. As long as what you're using is working for you...you are all right.

My personal experience has been that on many trips, it is not so much what lure you are using as how you are fishing it. I truly believe that the exact color is not nearly as important as how deep the lure goes and what kind of action it has at the speed you are trolling or retrieving.

Another thing I have found is that if you take ten of the exact same lures and fish them all the same there will be some that work better than others of the same make and model. No matter how closely controlled the manufacturing process is there will be minor differences in the final product that make a big difference in the dive or the wiggle. If you know how to fine tune a lure you can get more of them to work right. But I know guys who deliberately buy up all the lures available in their fave models and colors. Then they take them out and fish them...keeping the ones that work right and giving away or tossing the ones that don't.

Most seasoned anglers I know seem to subscribe to the basic philosophy that whatever you use fish it with confidence. Of course it helps if you really have caught a lot of fish on it before. But even if you haven't you should fish with confident expectation. Be prepared for success and stay alert for subtle bites, etc. You will catch more fish than if you just "chuck and chance it."
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[gofish435]

[#4040ff]Most seasoned anglers I know seem to subscribe to the basic philosophy that whatever you use fish it with confidence. Of course it helps if you really have caught a lot of fish on it before. But even if you haven't you should fish with confident expectation. Be prepared for success and stay alert for subtle bites, etc. You will catch more fish than if you just "chuck and chance it."
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Hey Pat

You are right on with the confidence factor. That is especially true when you are fishing waters with big fish. The fishing is usually slow and a lot of folks do not stick with there selection of fly/lure long enough to tell if it was a good choice or not. I always plan ahead and decide what I'm going to start with (the patterns that worked in the past) and stick with it for at least an hour and then switch. If I'm fishing new water then thats a whole different story. I try to base my choice to start with on angler reports, type of fish, type of bugs/baitfish available, and water temperatures. If all this fails that is when you hope the luck part of the equation kicks in. That is the fun thing about this sport, you never completely figure it out.[]
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[gmwahl]

Funny that you posted this as I just had this discussion about 45 minutes ago with a friend.

I think for me it has evolved from luck, to science, then to art. Then I get my but handed to me and it becomes luck all over again!

When I was a kid, if I caught a fish I would whoop and holler and parade it around. It was somewhat luck that I happen to catch a fish doing nothing more than screwing around while I had a pole in the water. Next, when in junior high, I took an interest in WHAT and WHY when it came to fishing. I started studying fish behavior and watching them as much as fishing for them. It was a scientific journey for me and one that bolstered my enthusiasm all the more. I started tying flies and making my own lures and inventing my own lures at the age of 13. I just couldn't learn enough about fishing at that point. It consumed me to the point that the science evolved into art (I am hesitant to talk this way because there are far more better fisherman than me!), I found that I instinctively knew where the fish were and what they wanted for bait and it is something that I've tried to maintain to this day.

Now , fast forward 30+ years and though I still love fishing as much as I did then, life and wife have gotten in the way of doing it as much as I did then, so I've found that I've lost the touch from time to time. When I get to fish, I still analyze, act methodical and generally try to document in my mind all factors that contribute to the success or failure of the day, but I still fall short of being able to really figure out the slimy little buggers with enough consistency to satisfy my thirst for perfection. In other words, a lot of times nowadays I just plain suck!

That is where I'm at now, I am probably better at it than the lay fisherman, but no where near as good anymore than most guys on this forum so I have come full circle back to just plain old luck being my closest alley!

I have found that all though electronics and gadgets are very convenient, I'm not sure that they have helped me much as far as fishing skill is concerned. Though a fish finder has been nice to have, I still use it mostly for knowing how deep the water is and I've yet to make those little blips on the screen take my bait any better just because I can see them. Here on bear lake I did a lot better before I got so serious about using technology to fish with. It used to be simple, go to Cisco beach, find methane bubbles, drop a baited jig to the bottom and catch tons of fish! Now its watch the fish finder, fish for what I can see and get about half of what I used to catch. Definitely something to be said for just learning the basics and getting really good at them. Technology is just another tool but not a miracle pill.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Ha. You bring up another angling corollary. It is possible to become TOO smart...and overthink what should be a simple enjoyable pastime. I ain't too proud to admit that I have outsmarted myself on more than one occasion.

One of my worst habits is to be in a good bite and to keep changing lures to find something the fish WON'T hit. Too often I get away from what is working and miss out on a lot of action while it is still going on.

Similarly, I have been guilty of leaving feeding fish to find other fish...thinking "I can always come back." But, as most of us have found, the fish may have moved or quit biting when you come back because you couldn't find action somewhere else. That is outsmarting yourself...bigtime.
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[cutter4]

What about a 4th option, patience.My wife outfishes me 75% of the time,and she is a cheese chucker,and you should see her rig! 2 hooks a foot apart,and 2or4 splitshots,depending on the wind.I prefer to fish with a fly and bubble,because I like to be able to release the fish,and it is a lot more fun than sitting there watching my pole.She will sit there and hold the pole and wait for the smallest bite,and whammo,fish on.I actually enjoy watching her and could not find a better fishing buddy anywhere.But patience is her art her science and her luck.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Patience is indeed a virtue...especially when fishing. I would classify it as part of the art of fishing.

But, I have known a few guys that crossed the line between patience and lazy. They just didn't wanna make fishing an active thing...even hesitating to set the hook...seemingly unwilling to expend the effort needed to reel in a fish.

I used to have a poster that showed two old boys sitting under a tree, next to a pond. Both had cane poles with bobbers floating in front of them. One bobber was wiggling...sending out ripples...and the one old boy was saying to the other "Now what fool went and planted fish in here?"

On the other hand, I sincerely believe that the reason a lot of newbies end up catching the biggest fish is because they simply let the bait sit there until the fish decides it is okay to munch. On the OTHER other hand, just as many newbies do not catch much because they are constantly moving around and bringing in their rigs too often.

I also like to take a more active approach...fishing jigs, spinners, cranks or bubble and fly. A big part of the enjoys of fishing is outsmarting the fish and feeling the hit when you have made them strike.
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[dubob]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]How about none of the above Pat? I just fish. Sometimes I catch fish and sometimes I don't, but for me, its just about the doing. I think the three things you mentioned play a part each and every time I go, but they generally are never part of my conscious thought process. I just do it.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Me too. If I overthink it my brain aches.

Be properly grateful for the good times and blame the bad ones on something or somebody else.
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[lilfish]

+1 hit the nail on the head with that one
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[Tin-Can]

Bob you got that right on. My stock answer to "what are ya fishin for?" Is, "anything that bites". Yea, I have a medium nice fishfinder, and like others have said, I use it for seeing the depth, seeing where I've been so I can find my way back (has an internal GPS) real handy on water I've never been to before, or at night. And for knowing a close idea of how fast I'm going. Told my kids years ago, it's not really a "fish FINDER" you have to find the fish, it just tells you how deep, they are and that they are where you thought they were, sometimes []
As I've gotten older, the GOING is the fun part, catching is a bonus.[fishin]
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[fmrusmc]

I would say for me it is luck. I have a fish finder and all the high tech expensive stuff. It doesnt seem to help me catchc them. And thats OK. The best part for me, even if I am not catching anything is being outside and just fishing. I usually take my family when we are off work and school at the same time. And also, its great getting out and meeting a fellow BFT'er out there too.
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[Springbuck]

I am a MUCH better fisherman than I used to be before I started coming to BFT and listening to you guys who know stuff. The entire point of this site is minimizing luck, I just don't believe you can escape being subject to luck totally. Luck can be good or bad, but it's usually luck that skunks me, me if anything.

It seems obvious that tech and gear and expand choices and options, but all the gear in the world won't help you If it's the wrong stuff, wrong place, wrong time. If smalles are in a certain depth, temp, location, and time of day feeding on crawdads, that is better info than what lure someone caught them on.

Increasing my knowledge of the art has contributed far more to my successful trips than anything I've bought.

It's easy to get info on tech, because it is for sale. The guys at the shop want to sell you silver rapalas or tube jigs or whatever, cuz that's what wipers are biting at Willard. Then I go to Willard and get skunked three times in a row. Then I get on BFT each night and there are a dozen reports of great catches of wipers on silver rapalas and tube jigs or whatever. Since we used the same thing, I feel I must attribute their success to SKILL or art or knowledge. They must know something I don't about wiper behavior, location, wind, feeding habits, things like angle and retrieve speeds, depth, temps, historical success, etc... if it was as simple as the lure, I wouldn't get skunked.

I have fished with casual fishermen friends and it was obvious to me why they were having bites, but not hooking up, or not getting bites, or not seeing bites while ice fishing. Etc..

There is a lot of luck though. This year on Mantua, a nice fellow kept coaching me about ice fishing as he was getting them faster than me. He asked if I had a bobber, extoled the virtues of the small actual bobber he had vs spring bobber. Quized me on bait and lure size. I was sure it was his hole, the only one he drilled all day, since I had drilled several and usually do fine at Mantua. When he left he graciously offered his spot and I started pulling em out even faster than he was. But I had done ok before that, and had I been generally in the wrong spot, I would have been doing worse.

Basically, the part we can affect the most and have the most effect Is art.
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[zman2]

im with pat,, luck has very little to do with catching fish luck is getting the 5 pounder or the 3 pound fish,,do the work spend time on the water and you will lbe on on your way,,
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[Tarponjim]

Luck: When opportunity meets preparation. If you fish, the opportunities will come. More for some than others. Some will be prepared more than others. Those who learn to create more opportunities and be prepared for them are most successful (more fish, bigger fish, most challenging fish, whatever "success" is.)

I have no idea what overthinking about fish or fishing would be![laugh][laugh][laugh][laugh][laugh][laugh]
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[flygoddess]

I am a believer in Science and Art (as per your description) Using those two will create the luck.
I too have over thought many times, specially when going to the Fly Tying Expos. See all the new material and wonderful new patterns. With the S & A knowledge I have accumulated over the years I can get LUCKY to pick a pattern I know will work.
I don't buy into the big flies mean big fish, but I understand the theory.
I find myself going back to basics, like you all do with lures. I have caught more NEW species using the old standard Prince Nymph, Haresears and Buggers. They are usually my go to when fishing new waters. Then I start experimenting....mwahahaha.

I don't know if it is one of those things that the more you do it, the better you get because it is constantly changing to a degree. Or, the longer you do something the more you learn!

Even I am familiar with the Red Devils though[]
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[chinook]

I applied all my known skills today at Starvation. Nothing worked. Even my high level of luck was AWOL. Science, Art and Luck were all employed at Rabbit Gulch and I got nothing. 2014 may not be my year! Maybe Starvation is not my friend. Maybe I just happened to be in a fish desert. I saw no marks on my fish finder. Nothing for two hours straight covering a lot of ground East of the pay station.
Anyway, usually art and luck are enough for me. Science gives me a headache. I used to like Physics in high school but then I discovered fishing. So much for my Nobel prize.
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[johnboy83]

Rather be lucky than good any day of the week. I've had the best 12 months of fishing of my life with something like 6 new PBs and as much as I'd like to think its all me being smart, it's not. LUCK
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