01-21-2021, 03:58 PM
"I don't care if "other states" do things differently, like restrict the number of people or days of the week certain people can fish. Canada does this with numerous rivers during the summer months when salmon are running. Certain days of the week allow for only residents to fish. I'm not a fan of this type of regulation, and I hope that Utah never falls into this trap. I am not a believer in "the grass is always greener". Just because another state is doing it, doesn't mean we should. Maybe the other states should look at how we do it?"
Your first three words of that paragraph are very telling and a big part of the problem. (Not caring means that you care more about your own point of view than anyone else.) Just because this is how Utah has always managed their fisheries doesn't mean it's working. As for other states, you asked a question, and I was just pointing out that what you suggested is being done in other states, and that it's not an original idea. You asked the questions, not me, you just didn't like the answers. For the record, I fish a number of states and some of those states have restrictions and the quality of fish is maintained. In many ways it's far superior to a lot fisheries in Utah. Is Utah the worst, no not by any means, but can it improve? Yes, a great deal. No, other states shouldn't do things like Utah unless they want the same over crowded and exploited conditions we have here. I guess if you haven't spent much time fishing out of state on quality rivers, lakes, and streams you wouldn't know any better, and think all is well in Utah. That all is well in Zion misguided attitude permeates the state on a lot of subjects...
"My comment about restricting bird harvest was both tonque-in-cheek, as well as an honest comment. Birds are the reason why Minersville has special regulations. Birds are the reason why Minersville stocking is done the way it is. When Minersville was under general regulations allowing the state-wide harvest of trout, it was birds that took home all the fish. According to a study done by biologists (now retired), birds harvested 4 times as many trout from Minersville as anglers. The currently regulations do nothing to prevent birds from harvesting fish today. They continue to do it. As you are well aware, Minersville has a lot of pelicans and cormorants in the spring / summer. If anyone is responsible for removing all the fish from the reservoir, it's birds. The fish removed by anglers, whether legally or illegally, is insignificant compared to what the birds remove."
I'm more than aware of the bird situation on Minersville. Remember I've been fishing it nearly as long as you have been alive. The only big change they made in regards to the birds was to stock catchable size rainbows in the lake instead of fingerlings. Never mind they still dump 10,000 fingerling brown trout in the lake each spring to feed the birds and bass...
"Now, shutting down the river, or changing it's regulations: bad idea. The DWR continues to fight to keep the special regulations on the reservoir. There are still a lot of people that would love to have those removed. The river provides an opportunity for anglers bait fish and harvest trout, if they desire. That's OK. We need those options too!"
I never said shut down the river. I said shut down year round fishing on the river. For many years Utah had a fishing season and the river below the dam would benefit from going back to something similar. Keep the upper Beaver River open year' round and open for bait fishermen. That way people can still get their fix, but it's far enough from the lake that people will be less likely to cheat at the lake. Kind'a dumb to have strict regulations on the lake. Then turn around and tell people if you walk over the dam, you can do pretty much whatever you want, as long as you don't keep over the limit or trespass. The proximity is the problem. The upper Beaver River far enough away to not be an issue for the lake.
"Same with some of the other fisheries on the mountain -- we can't make all lakes "trophy" and manage for quality. Some fisheries need to be managed for quantity and opportunity vs. quality. We should not attempt to make all lakes "trophy".
Again your reading comprehension is a little left of center. There are 9 lakes on the mountains and I suggested only 3 that had potential for trophy management. I wouldn't even care if they focused on one up there, but as it sits right now all 9 lakes aren't producing anything impressive on a regular basis. Sure Little Res kicks out a big brown once in a while, but not very often by any stretch of the imagination. Bottom line there are at least 10 lakes in Beaver county that I can think of off the top of my head and only one produces mature fish. That is a 10 to 1 ratio and you are worried about social reasons?! Seems pretty lop sided to me already. Just my two cents.
Lastly, secrets on lakes that produce big fish rarely backfire. You sighted one place and one situation. It's not common. I've been fishing for over 50 years and keeping secret places, secret, works better more times than not. That's a fact, and not really debatable by some obscure situation at Johnson Reservoir for a niche species of fish. I guarantee you some of the remote mountain lakes I fish that are hard to access or just not well known, consistently produce bigger and better fish, than if everyone knew about them and could easily access them. I have some lakes I fish that rarely see another human, but they are hard to reach and a long drive from here to reach. It is always worth it to get to those lakes, but not feasible to do on a regular basis due to distance. I guess if you only fish Utah or never bust your butt to reach places that are difficult to access for trophy sized trout, then you probably are content with average to below average on most of Utah's fisheries. In your own words: "you have options, but you have to make decisions." I will never be content with average. I guess some people are okay with that, but I never will be.
Your first three words of that paragraph are very telling and a big part of the problem. (Not caring means that you care more about your own point of view than anyone else.) Just because this is how Utah has always managed their fisheries doesn't mean it's working. As for other states, you asked a question, and I was just pointing out that what you suggested is being done in other states, and that it's not an original idea. You asked the questions, not me, you just didn't like the answers. For the record, I fish a number of states and some of those states have restrictions and the quality of fish is maintained. In many ways it's far superior to a lot fisheries in Utah. Is Utah the worst, no not by any means, but can it improve? Yes, a great deal. No, other states shouldn't do things like Utah unless they want the same over crowded and exploited conditions we have here. I guess if you haven't spent much time fishing out of state on quality rivers, lakes, and streams you wouldn't know any better, and think all is well in Utah. That all is well in Zion misguided attitude permeates the state on a lot of subjects...
"My comment about restricting bird harvest was both tonque-in-cheek, as well as an honest comment. Birds are the reason why Minersville has special regulations. Birds are the reason why Minersville stocking is done the way it is. When Minersville was under general regulations allowing the state-wide harvest of trout, it was birds that took home all the fish. According to a study done by biologists (now retired), birds harvested 4 times as many trout from Minersville as anglers. The currently regulations do nothing to prevent birds from harvesting fish today. They continue to do it. As you are well aware, Minersville has a lot of pelicans and cormorants in the spring / summer. If anyone is responsible for removing all the fish from the reservoir, it's birds. The fish removed by anglers, whether legally or illegally, is insignificant compared to what the birds remove."
I'm more than aware of the bird situation on Minersville. Remember I've been fishing it nearly as long as you have been alive. The only big change they made in regards to the birds was to stock catchable size rainbows in the lake instead of fingerlings. Never mind they still dump 10,000 fingerling brown trout in the lake each spring to feed the birds and bass...
"Now, shutting down the river, or changing it's regulations: bad idea. The DWR continues to fight to keep the special regulations on the reservoir. There are still a lot of people that would love to have those removed. The river provides an opportunity for anglers bait fish and harvest trout, if they desire. That's OK. We need those options too!"
I never said shut down the river. I said shut down year round fishing on the river. For many years Utah had a fishing season and the river below the dam would benefit from going back to something similar. Keep the upper Beaver River open year' round and open for bait fishermen. That way people can still get their fix, but it's far enough from the lake that people will be less likely to cheat at the lake. Kind'a dumb to have strict regulations on the lake. Then turn around and tell people if you walk over the dam, you can do pretty much whatever you want, as long as you don't keep over the limit or trespass. The proximity is the problem. The upper Beaver River far enough away to not be an issue for the lake.
"Same with some of the other fisheries on the mountain -- we can't make all lakes "trophy" and manage for quality. Some fisheries need to be managed for quantity and opportunity vs. quality. We should not attempt to make all lakes "trophy".
Again your reading comprehension is a little left of center. There are 9 lakes on the mountains and I suggested only 3 that had potential for trophy management. I wouldn't even care if they focused on one up there, but as it sits right now all 9 lakes aren't producing anything impressive on a regular basis. Sure Little Res kicks out a big brown once in a while, but not very often by any stretch of the imagination. Bottom line there are at least 10 lakes in Beaver county that I can think of off the top of my head and only one produces mature fish. That is a 10 to 1 ratio and you are worried about social reasons?! Seems pretty lop sided to me already. Just my two cents.
Lastly, secrets on lakes that produce big fish rarely backfire. You sighted one place and one situation. It's not common. I've been fishing for over 50 years and keeping secret places, secret, works better more times than not. That's a fact, and not really debatable by some obscure situation at Johnson Reservoir for a niche species of fish. I guarantee you some of the remote mountain lakes I fish that are hard to access or just not well known, consistently produce bigger and better fish, than if everyone knew about them and could easily access them. I have some lakes I fish that rarely see another human, but they are hard to reach and a long drive from here to reach. It is always worth it to get to those lakes, but not feasible to do on a regular basis due to distance. I guess if you only fish Utah or never bust your butt to reach places that are difficult to access for trophy sized trout, then you probably are content with average to below average on most of Utah's fisheries. In your own words: "you have options, but you have to make decisions." I will never be content with average. I guess some people are okay with that, but I never will be.