04-13-2015, 03:45 AM
[quote Bovineowner][quote Fishrmn]The can of worms was opened when people thought they had the right to keep others out of the rivers that belong to everyone.
[red]⫸[/red][orange]<{[/orange][yellow]{{[/yellow][green]{{[/green][size 4][blue]⦇[/blue][/size][blue]°[/blue][#8000ff]>[/#8000ff][/quote]
So if my hypothetical neighbor hovers over your swimming pool in a helicopter and I jump in, there isn't a thing you can do until I set foot on your lawn right?
[#0000ff]This is an ignorant statement, read the law, then you will not be so ignorant about what it says.[/#0000ff]
How is that any different that walking up a stream?
It is different because the walking of the stream must start on public land, like a bridge
My deed says from section corner to section corner. Now suddenly thanks to a judge, my deed is not valid?
[#0000ff]My deed says from corner to corner as well, but even though the sidewalk is within that area, I do not own it, it is public property, which I must by law maintain.[/#0000ff]
When a stream moves its course or is in flood stage, suddenly I own less ground than when it stays in its streambed?
[#0000ff]Again, read the law, flooding is accounted for, you do not own less land when it is flooding.[/#0000ff]
And nobody on the stream access group can answer my VALID concerns over liability! They ignore me like you did, which isn't very comforting when my livelihood is at stake.
We all own the state snowplows too, but that doesn't mean I can drive one anytime I'd like. I can see your side of this issue. What is frustrating, is hardly anyone from your side cares at all about what this will do to working ranch families.
[#0000ff]Oh, we cared, we tried to work out a compromise, we worked and had it all agreed to. Then the ranchers backstabbed the sportsmen with their back room bill that took everything. So now they can live with what comes. Like a criminal who turns down the plea deal and goes to court, the punishment if convicted will be much more severe.[/#0000ff]
I am not a wealthy corporation ranch. I have a full time job as does my wife and we run our cowherd. This ruling DIRECTLY EFFECTS LOTS AND LOTS OF FOLKS LIKE US. But that isn't nearly as important as fishing for recreation right? In a state with over 60% of the land owned by the government and therefor, PUBLIC.
[#0000ff]Do you think ranchers are the only professions effected by fishing? Why do you think Cabela's bothered with Utah? How did Sportsman's Warehouse ever get so big starting in Utah? What about guides, diners, camping cabins, gas?[/#0000ff]
My family settled on our land 40 years PRIOR to statehood. We have a deep respect for the land and its wildlife. We work hard and take great pride in being responsible stewards or the water, the grass and the land. It has been improved and treasured for 5 generations. There is blood, sweat and tears invested in every clump of grass and stand of trees. Please forgive me if I am protective and not very trusting when issues like these are pointed at us like a gun barrel.
[#0000ff]I won't ask if your family paid the native Americans for the land or if your family stole it from them. [/#0000ff]
I am a proud sportsman, hunter, hiker, fisherman and shooting sports participant. I know that a very large percentage of guys on this site respect private land and the relationship we all have as neighbors on this planet.
But it only takes one lawsuit, one lengthy litigation, to wipe out everything I just described above. Why cant my rights as a land owner and your rights as sportsmen co-exist?
[#0000ff]They will co-exist, the courts will see to it because the Farm Bureau and it's members were not willing to work out reasonable legislation to provide it.[/#0000ff]
I will continue to be respectful to your opinions and hope that same courtesy would be extended to mine. But this ruling, in my opinion, is a direct threat to small family ranches and farms in Utah. Not by the majority of you all, but by the few who will not be happy until I have no say at all on what happens on my private land.
I hope you take my comments in the spirit in which I mean them.[
] It is not my intent to rile ya'll up. It is my intent to fight for what happens on my land, regardless of what one judge decrees. I will do so with vigor and as respectfully as I can. You have yourself a great evening.
And remember, simply eating, is an agriculture act. If it isn't mined, then its grown. So don't think for a minute, threats to agriculture aren't threats to you as well. Is up to all of us to work together for solutions to issues like this.[/quote]
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[red]⫸[/red][orange]<{[/orange][yellow]{{[/yellow][green]{{[/green][size 4][blue]⦇[/blue][/size][blue]°[/blue][#8000ff]>[/#8000ff][/quote]
So if my hypothetical neighbor hovers over your swimming pool in a helicopter and I jump in, there isn't a thing you can do until I set foot on your lawn right?
[#0000ff]This is an ignorant statement, read the law, then you will not be so ignorant about what it says.[/#0000ff]
How is that any different that walking up a stream?
It is different because the walking of the stream must start on public land, like a bridge
My deed says from section corner to section corner. Now suddenly thanks to a judge, my deed is not valid?
[#0000ff]My deed says from corner to corner as well, but even though the sidewalk is within that area, I do not own it, it is public property, which I must by law maintain.[/#0000ff]
When a stream moves its course or is in flood stage, suddenly I own less ground than when it stays in its streambed?
[#0000ff]Again, read the law, flooding is accounted for, you do not own less land when it is flooding.[/#0000ff]
And nobody on the stream access group can answer my VALID concerns over liability! They ignore me like you did, which isn't very comforting when my livelihood is at stake.
We all own the state snowplows too, but that doesn't mean I can drive one anytime I'd like. I can see your side of this issue. What is frustrating, is hardly anyone from your side cares at all about what this will do to working ranch families.
[#0000ff]Oh, we cared, we tried to work out a compromise, we worked and had it all agreed to. Then the ranchers backstabbed the sportsmen with their back room bill that took everything. So now they can live with what comes. Like a criminal who turns down the plea deal and goes to court, the punishment if convicted will be much more severe.[/#0000ff]
I am not a wealthy corporation ranch. I have a full time job as does my wife and we run our cowherd. This ruling DIRECTLY EFFECTS LOTS AND LOTS OF FOLKS LIKE US. But that isn't nearly as important as fishing for recreation right? In a state with over 60% of the land owned by the government and therefor, PUBLIC.
[#0000ff]Do you think ranchers are the only professions effected by fishing? Why do you think Cabela's bothered with Utah? How did Sportsman's Warehouse ever get so big starting in Utah? What about guides, diners, camping cabins, gas?[/#0000ff]
My family settled on our land 40 years PRIOR to statehood. We have a deep respect for the land and its wildlife. We work hard and take great pride in being responsible stewards or the water, the grass and the land. It has been improved and treasured for 5 generations. There is blood, sweat and tears invested in every clump of grass and stand of trees. Please forgive me if I am protective and not very trusting when issues like these are pointed at us like a gun barrel.
[#0000ff]I won't ask if your family paid the native Americans for the land or if your family stole it from them. [/#0000ff]
I am a proud sportsman, hunter, hiker, fisherman and shooting sports participant. I know that a very large percentage of guys on this site respect private land and the relationship we all have as neighbors on this planet.
But it only takes one lawsuit, one lengthy litigation, to wipe out everything I just described above. Why cant my rights as a land owner and your rights as sportsmen co-exist?
[#0000ff]They will co-exist, the courts will see to it because the Farm Bureau and it's members were not willing to work out reasonable legislation to provide it.[/#0000ff]
I will continue to be respectful to your opinions and hope that same courtesy would be extended to mine. But this ruling, in my opinion, is a direct threat to small family ranches and farms in Utah. Not by the majority of you all, but by the few who will not be happy until I have no say at all on what happens on my private land.
I hope you take my comments in the spirit in which I mean them.[
] It is not my intent to rile ya'll up. It is my intent to fight for what happens on my land, regardless of what one judge decrees. I will do so with vigor and as respectfully as I can. You have yourself a great evening. And remember, simply eating, is an agriculture act. If it isn't mined, then its grown. So don't think for a minute, threats to agriculture aren't threats to you as well. Is up to all of us to work together for solutions to issues like this.[/quote]
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