Carp sienining question

[Mooseman75]

My friend is asking about carp siening and I can't remember a few details  1. What was yearly removal total that they removed? 2. The total overall amount removed was what? And 3 what did they do with the fish they removed?

[TubeDude]

The carp seining operation...now expired...was a part of the June Sucker Recovery Program.  It was intended to remove 5 million pounds of carp per year.  While it did not completely meet that goal, it did remove a substantial amount of carp from the Utah Lake biomass.  Attached is a PDF file I put together containing articles and pictures from several different sources...on the carp removal program.  That should answer most of your questions.

[gaardvark]

If the program has expired, does that mean that the seining operations have been suspended, or simply that it is no longer being publicly funded? I had understood this was a business that had been operating on the lake for many years before the state funded removal efforts began in earnest. Has the removal program been so successful that continuing to net the carp is no longer commercially viable?

[TubeDude]

If the program has expired, does that mean that the seining operations have been suspended, or simply that it is no longer being publicly funded? I had understood this was a business that had been operating on the lake for many years before the state funded removal efforts began in earnest. Has the removal program been so successful that continuing to net the carp is no longer commercially viable?

The Loy family has had a commercial carp seining business for several generations.  In the past they sold fresh carp to retail outlets in several big cities throughout the country...largely for cultural groups from other countries that were used to eating and enjoying carp.  They also sold to mink farmers in Utah until that business went south.  Then, not long before they got the contract for the June Sucker Program carp eradication nettings, it was discovered that the carp from Utah Lake had unsafe levels of PCBs.  That killed their ability to sell carp for human consumption.  I doubt there is any other place to sell their carp...and the ones they harvested under contract were usually just dumped in the landfill.

[gaardvark]

Thank you Pat, for that informative response. I don't often get as far south as Utah Lake, so I don't see any of the seining boats. Are the Loys still fishing? From  your PDF, I see this in an article by the Provo Daily Herald in 2017:


“We’ve known all along, we can’t just walk away,” Mills said. “We’re starting to see vegetation come back, and we want to keep removing for a couple more years still, but at
that point we can’t just say, ‘OK, we’re done.' “Because it would probably only take two or three years before the carp population would rebound and come back.”For maintenance of the carp population, they could keep removing them, though Mills said research is currently underway at Utah State University looking into other methods. For instance, there are certain types of fish that could be introduced to the lake that are really good at eating carp eggs. Either way, though, the shift to a maintenance strategy is several years down the road.
“This year will be telling, because when the lake comes up a lot in the year, that’s typically when the carp do really well,” Mills said. “So our monitoring this year and also next year will be really important.”

Which sort of maintenance efforts are being employed? in the 3-4 years since the completion of the now-expired removal, have there been any studies on recovery of the carp population through natural recruitment? Does your experience at the lake support the idea that the carp population has suffered a setback resulting in greater gamefish population?

[TubeDude]

Thank you Pat, for that informative response. I don't often get as far south as Utah Lake, so I don't see any of the seining boats. Are the Loys still fishing? From  your PDF, I see this in an article by the Provo Daily Herald in 2017:


“We’ve known all along, we can’t just walk away,” Mills said. “We’re starting to see vegetation come back, and we want to keep removing for a couple more years still, but at
that point we can’t just say, ‘OK, we’re done.' “Because it would probably only take two or three years before the carp population would rebound and come back.”For maintenance of the carp population, they could keep removing them, though Mills said research is currently underway at Utah State University looking into other methods. For instance, there are certain types of fish that could be introduced to the lake that are really good at eating carp eggs. Either way, though, the shift to a maintenance strategy is several years down the road.
“This year will be telling, because when the lake comes up a lot in the year, that’s typically when the carp do really well,” Mills said. “So our monitoring this year and also next year will be really important.”

Which sort of maintenance efforts are being employed? in the 3-4 years since the completion of the now-expired removal, have there been any studies on recovery of the carp population through natural recruitment? Does your experience at the lake support the idea that the carp population has suffered a setback resulting in greater gamefish population?

The carp problem is like an orphan stepchild.  Everybody hopes that if they ignore it, it will go away.  Sadly, unless and until the carp population is reduced beyond the tipping point...where predators and natural attrition keep adult numbers in check...the reduced population is only a temporary fix. 

Yes, there are noticeable changes.  There are fewer carp in spots that are normally swarming with them.  And the average size of carp is slightly larger...and the fish are noticeably chunkier.  But carp are the epitome of prolific.  A ripe "average size" female drops tiny eggs in the millions...not thousands.  And a successful spawn around the lake can multiply the population several fold within a short time.  My personal guess is that the carp numbers will be back to where they were within a short time...unless there is some successful experimentation with the CARP HERPES VIRUS.



EDIT:  I have not personally seen any carp seining boats on Utah Lake for a couple of years.  

[Kent]

I was politely tolerated when during one of their meetings, I made the comment that I didn't accept the idea of them ever reaching a tipping point and that unless they continued netting, on a large scale, the carp would rebound. I hope I am wrong, but I have a hunch that I'm not. I also believe the only hope is to use biological approaches, such as the carp herpes virus.

[TubeDude]

I was politely tolerated when during one of their meetings, I made the comment that I didn't accept the idea of them ever reaching a tipping point and that unless they continued netting, on a large scale, the carp would rebound.  I hope I am wrong, but I have a hunch that I'm not.  I also believe the only hope is to use biological approaches, such as the carp herpes virus.

The "inside" word I have gotten is that there is no way any kind of biological eradication would ever take place in the sacred home of the Junies...just in case.  All studies have shown the "carp Covid" to be species specific and not to adversely affect any other species.  But ...just in case.  So we get to watch the population rebuild to its former glory.

[Therapist]

One thing about the PCB deal. Not sure WHO!! determined that the levels were to high in Utah Lake Carp and why. It always struck me as strange that just when the Loy's were really putting a smack down on the carp at Utah Lake, their biggest market dried up. It is also funny that they were supplanted by carp from China ( yes they shipped em from China to the West Coast ) which had higher levels of toxic heavy metals, although the PCB level was lower !! Never could figure that one out. Some of the Winter pictures of the operation are classic, especially the ones showing the Bald and Golden Eagles sitting on the ice picking up carp that fell off the cart as they were being transported off the ice to shore.

The science behind the removal was pretty established and I am surprised that they discontinued the project before they accomplished their goal !! Ah, maybe the "dredging boys" have a solution !!!

[TubeDude]

One thing about the PCB deal.  Not sure WHO!! determined that the levels were to high in Utah Lake Carp and why.  It always struck me as strange that just when the Loy's were really putting a smack down on the carp at Utah Lake, their biggest market dried up.  It is also funny that they were supplanted by carp from China ( yes they shipped em from China to the West Coast ) which had higher levels of toxic heavy metals, although the PCB level was lower !!  Never could figure that one out.  Some of the Winter pictures of the operation are classic, especially the ones showing the Bald and Golden Eagles sitting on the ice picking up carp that fell off the cart as they were being transported off the ice to shore. 

The science behind the removal was pretty established and I am surprised that they discontinued the project before they  accomplished their goal !!  Ah,  maybe the "dredging boys" have a solution !!!

I don't think the "island folk" have Utah Lake's best interests at heart.  They are just looking for a way to profit by selling someone else's land...from the bottom of the lake.  I doubt they have any concerns about the welfare of the carp...or any other species.

[MrShane]

One thing about the PCB deal.  Not sure WHO!! determined that the levels were to high in Utah Lake Carp and why.  It always struck me as strange that just when the Loy's were really putting a smack down on the carp at Utah Lake, their biggest market dried up.  It is also funny that they were supplanted by carp from China ( yes they shipped em from China to the West Coast ) which had higher levels of toxic heavy metals, although the PCB level was lower !!  Never could figure that one out.  Some of the Winter pictures of the operation are classic, especially the ones showing the Bald and Golden Eagles sitting on the ice picking up carp that fell off the cart as they were being transported off the ice to shore. 

The science behind the removal was pretty established and I am surprised that they discontinued the project before they  accomplished their goal !!  Ah,  maybe the "dredging boys" have a solution !!!

I liked the winter pics with the nets stretched between holes and the Kubota tractor pulling out nets full of the watery swine.
What still bothers me is the Loy’s were paid ten cents(appx)/lb of federal funds but a couple guys bowfishing would not get paid for what they killed.

[Therapist]

My, My, Pat,  are we getting cynical in your "adavanced years"?  It will be interesting to see how that plays out.  I know that there are several State Reps from the south end of the County that are behind the proposal, so we need to all be viligant and watch what kind of shenangians they come up with over the next year or so !!  There was one county commisison candidate that had several proposals that were really interesting on ways to deal with algae blooms and water quality, w/o the dredging.

https://www.lgsonic.com/cases/essbio

http://martinecosystems.com/floating-isl...solutions/

Both have some real  science behind them and don't do anything to harm the current ecosystem.  The floating island technology is really intriguing as it wil provide new habitat along with improving water quality.  Cost seems to be very reasonalble also !!

[UTFISHING]

https://www.facebook.com/totalnativefish...9/?app=fbl