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My experience has consistently been that I catch smaller fish (on whole) while trolling at Strawberry and most other waters than I do by using traditional bait, fishing with minnows, or vertical jigging with tubes or similar. It doesn't seem to make any difference if I troll a small or large lure, Rapala or whatever; however, I have never trolled a truly large lure at Strawberry. Are you experiencing the same results, and if not what what are you doing differently?
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I've had the same experiences as you Kent. Mostly smaller fish, with an occasional bigger one. However, I know guys who troll K15 Kwikfish on steel line at the Gorge, and they catch some really big fish. I guess the old addage is true, big lures catch big fish.
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I fly fish Strawberry using sinking line and I have found that if I slow down and let the line go deep, I catch bigger fish than I do when I strip the line in before it goes down toward the bottom. I also have marked bigger fish at 30' than the fish that are suspended at 15' to 25'. I have even put the fly rod away and changed to a spinning rig and a tube jig when I have marked the fish down at the bottom, deeper than 25'. This rig gets down quick to where the fish are located and has produced some nice fish. It seams to me that when it gets warmer the big fish go deep, so we need to fish where they are, close to the bottom. This is only in water that has enough oxygen at these depths to support the fish. Some places at the Berry have deep water that will not sustain the fish due to the anaerobic condition lower than 25' to 30' in depth. Does anyone agree with this idea?
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Absolutely, If you want big fish while trolling, you have to go deep for them. In the spring and fall you can find the big boys anywhere in the water column but in the hot summer months you will do a lot better trolling below the 20 foot depth.
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I agree, get down if you want the bigger fish but I'm puzzled by your statement concerning low oxygen content at the lower depths. What do you think would cause that in the Berry to force the fish shallow when clearly in Fish Lake and FG (as well as other places) we (at times) fish very deep for the truly biggin's?
This leads me to the next question. I've often wondered what effect it has to drag a fish up from extremely cold water and high water pressures to shallow warm water. I know in the case of Perch their swim bladders blow up like a balloon due to nitrogen, basically giving them "the swim bladder bends". I know Mac-a-doos can blow it but what about other fishskins?
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Thats a valid concern Coldfooter, here's a link to an article that addresses that issue.
[url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/catchandreleasetips.html"]http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/catchandreleasetips.html[/url]
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Thanks for the link Prov17, it spells out what I already thought might be the case. Theres also a good link to the proper release of Tiggers there also.
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This may be asking a lot, but just what is your definition of big at the Berry? I troll fly's there and I catch a healthy mix of fish between 15 and 20" with a few over 20". At the Berry, I would consider any fish over 18" to be big. 15 to 18" are average. So when you fish bait/minnows etc. are your fish averaging larger than 18, 20, 22"?
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While trolling the average size cutt that I catch is typically around 17" and rarely over 19". When I fish using other methods (especially if I am still fishing with minnows) the average is closer to 19 or 20" with a few over 22". I catch more rainbows still fishing, but the majority are still cutts. I can get more rainbows by fishing on the bottom with PowerBait (which I sometimes do when I am trying to fish with a boatload of kids) but I prefer not to fish with it.
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There are places in Strawberry that are not influenced by streams entering into the area. These spots will lack oxygen in the bottom of the lake. There are maps of Strawberry that you can buy at Sportsman's and other places that show the areas that do not sustain fish in the lower depths. In these areas I have found smaller fish, suspended in shallower water, 20' or less in depth. The big fish [over 17"] seem to be in other locations in the reservoir. Again, this is what I have experienced and not gospel.
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The fishing experience sounds right, but I am not following the oxygen rising before it gets to an area. If the oxygen is dissolved in the water, which it is, it should not have a tendency to rise.
Now I'm just spouting off. LOL.
The capacity of the water to hold dissolved oxygen increases with colder temperatures (oxygen solubility in water increases with decreasing temperature, called an inverse solubility relationship). At atmospheric pressure, 50 degree F water can hold approximately 11.5 parts oxygen per million parts water at 70 degrees the water can only hold about 8.6 ppm of oxygen, and at 90 degrees only about 6ppm. The amount of dissolved oxygen that is soluble in water also increases with higher pressures, which you would find in deeper water. So the general expectation is that the deeper water will be more oxygen rich. As you stated, this is not always the case. The biomass in the water (bacteria, planktonic matter,, ect.) can consume dissolved oxygen, as can decaying vegetation and other decaying things in the water, like corn and dead fish. This biomass and decaying matter is often concentrated towards the bottom, thus if the water is not well circulated (like in areas away from stream inlets and flowing water) it can become 'stale' and more oxygen depleted towards the bottom. This concentration of biomass and decaying matter in the 'deeper' water usually tapers off at a depth where it is too deep for underwater vegetation to grow.
In reservoirs, ponds, or lakes where the majority of the outlet water exits from the top of the water column, the inlet and outlet flows can bypass the deeper areas, leaving those areas stagnant and eventually low in oxygen (because the oxygen is being consumed more rapidly than it can be replaced) despite the capacity of the colder water to hold more oxygen. These types of water bodies are susecptible to summer kill.
Oxygen is typically dissolved into water through the interface between the water and the atmosphere (the surface). Waves, wind action, flowing water, and rapids increase the waters' surface area and the rate at which dissolved oxygen is absorbed into the water (replenishing the oxygen that is consumed by the biomass in the water). The waves, wind action, and ect do not affect the total amount of dissolved oxygen that the water can hold since oxygen solubility is mainly a function of temperature and pressure. Winter kill can occurr when most of the surface oxygen absorption mechanisms are blocked by the ice cap on the lake for too long and the available oxygen is consumed faster than it can be replenished. Usually early in the ice fishing season the dissolved oxygen concentration in the water is slightly higher towards the bottom, mainly due to higher water pressure on the bottom, but not usually due to lower temperatures since the lake 'turns over' before ice on. Later in the ice fishing season, if the biomass in the lake is concentrated towards the bottom, the water becomes more oxygen rich towards the surface. Has anyone ever noticed this at Strawberry on the late season ice? I have.
Anyway, I didn't mean to go off, I just wanted to sound like Tube Dude for once.
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I like your answer Fishry, I would have said that myself, except I don't know that many words ]I guess the point is still that there are some places in Strawberry that the water at the bottom will not sustain trout. It is in these areas that I don't want to waste my time fishing for them. You have a good knowledge of marine biology Fishry. Where did you study? DKS
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Thanks for that very informative input, and your correct. Our ol'e pal will be so proud[ ]
So what your explanation as far as why some fish like Mack tend to go deep to often holding just under the thermal cline during the summer months while the other cold water fish spieces stay above it or travel into shallower waters?
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Very well done!, Do you have a science background? As for why some cold water fish may be found in water more shallow than "expected" it usually has to do with flow from inlet streams into a lake (as has been said). A flowing stream which has cold water temps will have a very high water oxygenation and will cool and oxygenate the part of the lake it enters. A modest area around the inlet will have increased oxygenation compared to comparable areas away from an inlet. Strawberry has numerous small streams like this feeding into it. The bigger fish will often go to these areas because the food density is greater.
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Yes I'm very well aware of that but you'll note my question was more concerning Mack as to why they would choose to drop deep where oxygen is less concentrated. Of course any answer can be only theory and speculation. I've yet to find anyone able to ask a Mack that question and get it to give an answer with a straight face.
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I catch my largest fish either casting tube jigs, trolling very deep, or fishing wooly buggers.
Lloyd
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How deep is very deep?
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Kent,
I've caught cutts at the Berry trolling with my downrigger ball down 70 feet.
Normally as you stated earlier while trolling I catch mostly cutts 17" to 19",
with only a few bows. I've tried the bigger flatfish like I use at the Gorge
have not had any luck. However on smaller flat fish I have had some 100
plus fish days at the Berry. When trolling though my biggest fish have
been caught on wolly buggers, going to 23". Also for overall size I have
caught bigger fish still fishing or drifting. With my biggest fish from the
Berry being a 26" bow and 28" cutt. With the avgerage size 19" to 21"
versus 17" to 19" trolling.
John
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I have caught fish on wooly buggers, streamers and similar flies on my downrigger, with and without a dodger. How do you fish them?
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I too have caught more of the bigger fish still fishing with bait. I have found however that trolling a large Frog pattern Flatfish down 30'40' gets me into some bigger fish, often the big bows. Hoping to head up this week or next and will give an update. MR. J.
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