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I couple of years ago Doug Miller did a spot about the
DWR aquiring some stock of the Kamloops Rainbow. They were
going to use Mantua as a brood stock location. Well,with the
indiscriminate and illegal introduction of Perch in that
lake it has affected the DWR's plans for this effort. So I inquired and asked the DWR where things stand. This is their
response: "We received the kamloop eggs from the Murray Springs State Fish Hatchery, in Eureka, Montana. The kamloop will be transferred to either the Mammoth Creek or the Egan State Fish Hatcheries for future brood stock. The kamloop are to be stocked into Flaming Gorge Reservoir on an annual basis once the brood stock become mature. In January 2004, the Fisheries Experiment Station transferred about 5000 kamloop to the Mammoth Creek State Fish Hatchery for future brood stock". Fellow BFTers this is something to be excited
about!! I did some research and this is what I found out about the Kamloops Rainbow: 1)they're spring spawners and grow at a phonomenal rate, 2)they have twice the longivity of other rainbow strains and have the potential of reaching 40 lbs.That's right!I'm not just talking inches here.Research has proven that when kamloops eggs are incubated in temperatures that are 9 degrees cooler then what is considered normal then these characteristics mentioned above are developed. This is the natural condition of their native British Columbian waters. At normal incubating temps a Kamloops is still a Kamloops but without these features. (I personally believe that it might have something to do with establishing a slower motabolism) It is my understanding that the DWR will maintain the integrity of the Kamloops by using a cooler incubation temp. About 80 years ago,before the developement of genetic science, the Kamloops Rainbow was thought to be a strain of landlocked salmon due to their uncharacteristic large size and fast growth rate. So who knows in 5 years or so we could be
catching some monster rainbows at the gorge. Have any of you
had any encounters with a Kamloops Rainbow before? How do you think it will affect the Kokanee and Lake Trout that are
already established? and last, Do you think that the Kamloops will thrive in there?
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There is a private lake by Flaming Gorge called Green or Green's Lake. They have rainbow trout in there that are to be transplanted into the Gorge. Does anyone know if these trout are Kamloops? I have fished this lake several times and the trout are large and fat in there. It is catch and release there with a $5.00 daily fee to fish. A great place to put a float tube or toon in the water for some good trout action. DKS.
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It could be good news, but in the lakes where the records have come from, and the biggest fish are caught (ie:lake Pend Orielle in Idaho) the main forage is kokanee salmon. With FG's koke population being down due to the lake trout, I wouldn't count on catching state records out of there any time soon. I would love to be wrong about that though.
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How do you think it will affect the Kokanee and Lake Trout that are
already established?
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Personally, i think that the Lake Trout will love eating the Kamloops!
The size of Kamloops rainbows has alot to do with habitat. Will FG provide the type of habitat required to grow kamloops rainbow trout to their potential 40lbs? If it does, then why don't the current rainbows reach their potential?
Kamloops are interesting, but I don't think they are going to be what many fishermen are hoping.
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yes they will do good dut what are they going to eat the lakers in their now have a hard time with food?
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I just hope that planting these rainbows won't destroy the kokanee fishing at F.G. I just don't think that would be worth it. We have plenty of rainbows around, it's nice to have a change to go for kokanee.
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Kamloops are no doubt a very amazing strain of Rainbow. I have fished for them in there home land of British Columbia as well as in Idaho. They need to go in a place that has an abundunce of forage. Hmmmm I wonder where that may be? Sounds like sterile Kamloops is the answer to all of the issues we have at the Berry!
I have brought this up before. Everyone seems to reply that there is a shortage of brood stock. Seems to me they should wipe out something like Causey which we know does well with the Kokes. Then throw in some Kokes and Kamloops call it catch and release only on the rainbows and they will have a brood going within 4 years. And a killer trophy water at the same time.
If only life were so simple!
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Kamloops rainbows are a great trout, but biologists at the Gorge do not believe they can compete well with lake trout for the available forage - a very limited number of chubs and the kokanee. Kamloops will, and have done well, at Flaming Gorge, but they will probably never reach the trophy sizes of years past. The same is true for the once world-class brown trout fishery at the Gorge
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Fun idea - but the problem can be summed up in two words: Whirling Disease.
That is why they now stock splake and tigers in there and only stock catchable bows around the holidays. I guess they could just stock them when they are larger to avoid infection - hmmm...
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I to love catching big bows of any kind. I think that there is some valid concerns about the food sources for these fish, but what I also wonder about is their spawning. If they spawn in the first part of the year are they going to spawn with the already existing rainbows? Are they sterile or is there a way to steralize them? I would love some more sterile bows in the berry. We need a lot of them in there so a few of the ones that the people don't get will get to trophy size again. Jake
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I would love to see it! To have rainbows pasing 20 pounds i have also read about the relationship between the two (koke's and kamaloops) and i am a little conserned with how well the laker's are spawning in FG you hear they are loaded with smaller ones and they are starting to worry about the lakers main food source Kokanee.... once these fish get to the size to acually take an adult kokanee the fishery will have a problem and i think both species are going to crash hard!!! now throw in a rainbow like this and it will be hard to say. I think it will work out FG is a big lake with a lot of potential but your lake trouts avarage size will probably drop and the kamaloops won't get as big as they could
but will still be huge for a rainbow i bet 15 pounds being on the big size, I hope the kokanee population can sustain two big predators. They will need to introduce another food source to keep all three fish stable
Don
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Drew,
I usually respect your opinion as well as the DWR. On this one I really think the DWR and many of us have it all wrong.
Yes Causey does have WD so does Porcupine. Yet at the same time they both have self sustaining numbers of Kokanee. In fact the Kokanee do so well in Porcupine that they have increased the harvest limit.
Both bodies of water have wild naturally reproducing Cutthroat, Rainbow, Brown, and Kokanee yet I am told over and over how both waters could never be managed as wild trophy waters because of WD.
I believe we should take advantage of those waters that do have natural recruitment and not fill waste the money on those waters. If we could just take that same money and spend it on water rights and habitat improvement and planting the "true put and take fisheries". Look at the total number of fish that were planted in Causey during 2004 and 2005 almost all are sterile and will have to be replaced by more $.
I think we could be destroying what could be the "answer" to WD. We should be protecting the WD waters that still have natural recruitment more than any other waters. Who knows what might be found.
Drew,
I hope the above is not taken the wrong way I always enjoy reading your comments.
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[black][font "Tahoma"]i can't say much about some of the other water's that have been mentioned,that have kokes ,because i have never fished them.i do fish the gorge,and i have to agree with a few, that i dont think that kamaloops will ever get to any thing of great size any time soon.There is just to much compeltion for foralge at the gorge,that is very evident now,as the koke population is in decline .The koke population is over stressed as it is,not enough fish making it to the spawning age,comptition with other specis(browns rainbow's)and being the favorite food of the mac's in the gorge.
When both the Utah and the Wyoming game and fish decided to raise the limit of mac's in possesion it was done as a way to relive the stress on the koke's .has it done that yet,i think it to early to tell,but was a step in the right direction.
I think that one positive thing about the kamaloops being planted in the gorge,is that the kokanee program will have to get a big boost as to stocking,and managing them so that the kam's will have a steady food source.Hopefully this will have benefits to not only the kamaloop program,but with the mac programs also.
It will be interesting to see what develops in the upcoming month's at to what will transpire,will the rainbow and brown program's be left by the way side because there wont be money for them,will the price of a licinse be raised to help with revenues that will be needed to surrport a new fish program.Who know for sure time will tell i guess.
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Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was not expressing my opinion, rather the opinion that I know the state has on the matter. Also, because of the lack of facilities at Causey (and Porcupine), it is a bad candidate for a trophy fishery - in their minds.
This has nothing to do with the quality of the fish in Causey or the ability to reproduce. Both Causey and Porcupine can grow giant browns (and I have proof that Causey can grow two foot long kokanee on my wall). Its just from a management perspective, neither reservoir is a great candidate not only for the reasons mentioned above, but also because of size and the fact that both are relatively oligotrophic so you don't see growth rates like at places such as Strawberry or Mantua.
Its funny that you mention the number stocked in Causey of sterile fish. I spoke in depth with Gordon, the biologist in charge of Causey, about the number and size of splake in Causey and he openly admitted that based on their last gillnetting, they have stocked way too many splake in there. The tiger trout were put in there because people were asking for them in Northern Utah.
Finally, the tributaries (and even Causey itself) has some native populations of cutthroat. The stocking of Rainbows with the intent on establishing a natural reproducing population is counter to one of their primary objectives of preserving and restoring native populations. I do understand, however, that that is a weird statement considering they do stock catchable rainbows in there and that there are cutbows (and even some rainbows) spawning. However, over 90 percent of catchables, on average, are harvested within one season.
In defense of your argument though, I do think that WD is negated to an extent at Causey because the two tribs that fish use to spawn are clean and clear with very little sediment. The problem comes at the sediment filled mouths. Another thing to think about is that kokes are fall spawners (like browns and brooks) and this gives them a better chance to resist WD by not hatching out during high runoff times when infection is greatest - as cuts and bows.
In a nutshell, Causey is managed as a put-grow-and-take with sterile hybrids because of WD, a lack of facilities, for control, and to provide a different opportunity to Northern Utah anglers. With a quality kamloops fishery just a few miles away at Mantua (at least that was the hope), they were not going to put two in the area.
Anyway, that is their rational - agree with it or not. Quite honestly, I would prefer it to stay under the radar (although for ice fishing it is definitely on the radar) for my own selfish purposes. Sorry for such the loquacious post.
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Well Drew, if you going to be loquacious, its a good thing your GNOSTIC, and sagacious. I found your message very imformitve. Thanks for your imput.
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Drew,
I also wish the icefishing bonanza would give that place just a slight break. I fish both waters regularly out of a big bright yellow 10' pontoon. Say hi next time. And if you ever drag up a 9' 6wt. XP out of the boy scout arm I would be happy to pay a handsome reward.
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Will do. I'm in either an 11'6" yellow toon (cardiac canyon) or a nine foot Outcast. If I hook into a Sage, I'll give you a shout.
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It is nice to here I am not the only one in a bright yellow toon. I swear you can see that thing for miles.
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