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The DWR report for Nov. 7 states: "JOES VALLEY RESERVOIR: The reservoir is closed to fishing through December 10th to protect splake which are attempting to spawn."
Isn't that like saying - "Watch out there, Bubba. That mule (or gelding or steer) is getting ready to mate with that (female animal that is close in genetic makeup but not that close)! Aren't splake sterile?
I guess there's no real harm in trying though, huh?[shocked]
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Interesting in deed. Perhaps they aren't as sterile as once believed.
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[cool][#0000ff]Most hybrids are sterile, but many still develop eggs and milt and obey the urge to spawn. And, while successful spawning, with verified hatchlings, has never been documented in the wild, there have been a few successful spawnings under hatchery conditions.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The problem at Joe's Valley, according to the report, is not so much letting the fish spawn as it is keeping the snagging "sportsmen" from destroying the splake population. When any spawning fish congregates in one area they become prey to glassy eyed idiots who know little about catching them legally and have to rip their guts out, just to feel a fish on their lines. The fish that don't go home in some grunt's cooler often die from injuries or infections later.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff][url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/news/02-10/joesvalley.html"]HERE'S A LINK TO THE ARTICLE[/url][/#0000ff]
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Touche', Tube Dude! I was hoping you would have an all-encompasing, excellent response. Thanks!
I guess it is man's primal urge to be a "fisher", gatherer and bring back armloads of fish to his cave. It is also a fish's primal urge to go through the motions and congregate to propagate, even if it is unsuccessful.
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The same type of people go after the waleye and bass when they spawn.
but there is a lot of real fishmen that do fish at thease time of year that catch fish in a legal maner and in a sportsmen like way.
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You are correct, too, bassrods. Intelligent, law-abiding folk see it as an opportunity to increase their odds for a fish. There are both sides for fish to contend with and, for the most part, defeat quite handily.
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Splake are sterile and cannot produce offspring...if you were to look inside the belly of a female this time of year, you would find it full of bad eggs. But, like many hybrids, they still have the urge and do go through a false spawn.
The regulations, like Tubedude said, are in place to protect fish that are vulnerable. Many fishermen were snagging the large splake in shallow water in order to catch them. It is unethical to snag fish intentionally.
Personally, though, I find nothing wrong with fishing for spawning fish...in fact, I will be leaving for Fish Lake within the next hour to go try and catch spawning splake. People sometimes make a big issue about fishing on redds or during the spawn...i find this to be dumb. The impact of fishing for spawning fish is pretty minimal and the redds are harmed by wading just as much after the spawn as during.
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[cool][#0000ff]I would be the last one to cast stones for a serious angler taking advantage of concentrations of fish to increase the odds of hooking up. I have fished a lot of "runs" for salmon, steelhead, stripers, shad, sturgeon, etc. Also done my share of chasing walleyes, crappies, bluegills, largemouth and smallmouth while they were "friskyfyin". [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Flingin' flies for west coast salmon is great sport when they are stacked up in holes, waiting for fall storms to let them go upstream. Unfortunately, you snag as many as you fair hook. However, the "sportsmen" can quickly tell by the nature of the fight whether or not the fish is foul hooked and will grab the line and sacrifice a fly rather than waste a lot of time trying to overpower a snagged fish. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Most bassers get excited about fishing the beds for visible mama bass. That's the time of year the biggest fish are most visible and most likely to smack a lure, as a nest-protecting instinct. Some guys keep the fish, but most try to release them quickly so they can finish making baby bass.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Nothing wrong with taking advantage of a spawning run. That is, as long as you use legal tackle and sporting methods to hook the fish fairly. My only beef is with those who would rather snag than catch the fish legally.[/#0000ff]
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Allright lets everybody jump on the band wagon. I fish for the splake at JoesValley before they shut it down. Let me tell you a little bit about how the season CLOSED. I fish with a Jakes spin a lure and it has trebeles(how a bad word). The majority of the fish I catch are a leagal catch, but the fish are concentrated and a foul hook is enevediable. I guy that lives in emery county( I wont address names) has tried to catch the splake all year long with limited success. To put it plainly he failed alot. This guy was up at Joes valley when I was, fishing next to us. He saw us foul hook one. After that, he ran to the DWR and notified them that ALL the anglers up there were snagging EVERY FISH. I have not meet one angler who goes to Joes Valley to snag a splake.!! One person gets jealous and raied a stink.
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If the fish are concentrated and vulnerable to snagging and/or catching; the regulations should be changed...why are you complaining? Don't you believe in protecting the large fish from overharvest?
The Boulder Mountain has ice fishing regulations in place for a similar reason; to protect overly vulnerable trophy-sized fish from overharvest. These types of regulations are in place for your benefit. Without them, the quality of the fishery is at stake; why would you complain about a regulation that is in place to protect large fish? Instead of complaining about what one guy did do or about what people weren't doing, figure out a new way to catch the big boys.
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Is this going to spark another debate? You missed the whole point. The point was to make aware that persons jump to conclusions. Try telling your story of diffent styles to the guy who couldnt catch any. I do not belive in snagging nor will I ever. Tell me WB have you ever foul hooked a fish? Well the answer I can bet is yes. So are you labeld a snagger? The fish are a rare resource and yes they need protection. I didnt say that. Point is get the facts before jumping to conclusions.
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You are telling me to get the facts straight before jumping to conclusions, yet you don't have your facts straight. You can't be so naive to actually believe that the regulations were changed because one fishermen called and claimed that you snagged a fish can you? The regulations were changed because numerous people were unethically and illegally intentionally snagging fish. Your first post implied that you were upset that the reservoir has been closed down to stop this and you implied it was because some guy saw you accidentally snag a fish. I personally know Louis Berg--the biologist who made the regulation change recommendation--and I was at the RAC when the regulation change was made. Do you have all the facts straight, or are you just jumping to conclusions?
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Good to know you have friends in high places. Im not mad about the regulations. not at all. WB I should have known better to post anthing that you have repiles to. ONE MORE TIME. Before people go to conclusions and label "snaggers (witch you didnt answer) Just PUT A LITTLE MORE THOUGHT INTO IT. I will not respond to this post again. I supose that you have personally seen all of the tickets for the snagging of splake in Joes Valley. I know the man who statred it and ended it. So take your adcertains and way in lay for the next LAW BREAKER. YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT.
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Oldspot let it go. It's the successfull spawn a fish biologist your arguing with.
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I only glance at this board once in a while, but after reading the article TubeDude attached to his post, I had to chime in. First, hats off to the southeastern DWR office for closing Joes Valley to keep the snaggers away.
At Flaming Gorge, snaggers have been knowingly and intentionally snagging spawning lake trout for over a decade. Although the DWR did finally close Linwood Bay to night fishing, a great many "fishermen" are still snagging fish early and late in the day. On a morning late last week, I witnessed and videotaped six boats fishing over one spawning hump. All were using spoons with large treble hooks, and jerking their rods up from the surface to "straight up", back and forth, until they snagged one. In 30 minutes, I saw 8 fish hooked, and none were in the mouth.
This occurs every morning and evening, and sometimes all day, from early November through mid-December. I've seen it countless times for more than 15 years. Although some of us "regulars" have repeatedly asked for a closure, the DWR in Dutch John will not do it. It's because here, they believe the only good lake trout is a dead lake trout, for reasons I won't go into except to say that they want this to be a "family fishery", with no predation to rainbows, kokanee, etc.
I guide on Flaming Gorge, and do fish on and near spawning beds. I do so with single hooks, and use a very slow presentation that does not foul-hook fish. Yes, when they're very thick we'll snag about one in twenty, but certainly not intentionally. Those ripping treble-hooked spoons up and down 6-8 feet at a swipe snag the majority of fish they "catch." I would gladly give up 6 weeks of good fishing and income to protect 20 and 30-year-old lake trout. The massacre needs to stop. By closing the bay entirely, other law enforcement agencies such as the sheriff and Forest Service could possibly enforce trespassing violations. As it stands, there is only ONE (1) DWR officer for the entire Flaming Gorge NRA, which includes the Green River and eastern Uintas. And he lives an hour from Linwood Bay, in Dutch John. There is very little, to no, law enforcement. Further, fishing in the manner the snaggers do is not illegal unless you keep a fish that's foul-hooked. Good luck proving that in court unless there's a witness, and the one warden doesn't have the time or interest for that. The only solution is to do what was done at Joe's Valley.
If you fish Joe's Valley, be grateful your local DWR cares enough to protect the splake. At Flaming Gorge, the DWR could care less what happens to our lake trout. I've pleaded with them until I'm hoarse, but its fallen on deaf ears, and spawning trophy lake trout apparently aren't worth protecting in their minds.
--end of ramble--thanks.
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Hi, Jim![/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Glad to have you on the board. There are a lot of us who truly enjoy chasing lake trout and detest the activities that take place during the spawn. Bear Lake is no exception with anglers trying to snag fish from the dikes of the state park marina at night. I too, would like to see areas closed to fishing when the fish are so susceptible to unethical fishermen and techniques. Again, welcome to the board. Your insight is greatly appreciated.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]How's the lake trout fishing been on the Gorge lately?[/size][/black][/font]
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It's cold and extremely windy now, but fishing's been good on the calm days. Been catching lots in the mouth!
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I grew up in Emery County and have fished Joe's Valley for 20 years. I have fished it november many times and yes, there is some illegal snagging that has gone on in the last 4 or 5 years. If you talk to DWR biologists, they claim the regulation are to "protect" the large splake in the lake. They put them in place so fewer large splake would be caught by both legal and non legal methods of angling. The lake is overrun with chubs and the only hope this lake has of returning to a quality fishery is to protect the big splake that feed on the chubs. Only problem is that there are 10 times more slot splake being taken illegally throughout the summer months than the few trophies being taken in November. This is a step in the right direction, but there needs to be many more steps taken to regain this lake from the trash fish and the trash that fish it.
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