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I was reading another website and there was quite a heated debate over the issue of hotspotting. It was interesting to me and I thought it was very thought provoking. This website blamed BFT for ruining several fisheries (Strawberry) because of hotspotting and the like. They were morally opposed to it and I'm not sure if it was to help the fishery or help their selfish motives. It was quite a post and several good points on both sides. Comments?
On a side note- they made fun of BFT and the general attitude of several of them was rather rude and stuffy. I've met several of you BFTers and I'm glad that I have. Some mighty nice folks and I must say that I would rather share water with most of you rather than with some of those snobby yuppies. I'm sure there's some nice folks there too but wow. The general attitude here is much nicer. Thanks everyone for making this a great site and resource. Your unselfish attitudes have probably made several life long fisherman!!!
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[cool] [#0000ff]There are some fishing websites that just plain take themselves too seriously. BFT will always be a target because we promote the overall enjoyment of fishing, and we are multi-species and multi-tackle. Those who become fanatical about one type of fishing (pocket lint) or one species (slimers) tend to get a bit warped when others encroach upon their holy ground (water).[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Our whole thrust, since our beginning, has been to offer good help and advice to those who ask for it. On other boards you are sometimes likely to get your head taken off for asking a simple question that the other members perceive as being too "rookie".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are very few times when our reports and posts have not been of a general nature. We have tried to maintain a policy of keeping SOME info a bit more "sketchy" if the place involved cannot tolerate a lot of pressure. But, when talking about large reservoirs with large reserves of fish that are available to the masses, we try to provide as much specific info as members might need to get in on the action.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The  part is that much of the good info we post up is largely wasted. Some anglers are not experienced enough or well enough equipped to take advantage of the more technical or tricky tackle and techniques suggested. It is absolute nonsense to blame BFT for adversely affecting any fishery, especially one the size of Strawberry.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As we have all seen, there are those who seem able to pull themselves up only by pulling others down. It is to see, but need not make any of us feel badly. I would much rather help a newbie to catch their first fish...or more fish...or bigger fish...than to play the "guess where" game. No need for any of us to change. If the other guys wanna stress out, it's on them, not us.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If anyone wants to point the finger of blame, they might take a look at some of the programs done by Mr. Miller, and the armies of harvesters that descend upon the featured waters within the week following each broadcast. The I-80 ponds are a good example. They CANNOT stand a lot of pressure. They used to produce some nice bass and bluegill (glow in the dark) but within a couple of weeks of Mr. Miller's feature story the banks were tromped down, littered with trash and there were no longer any decent fish to be caught. I doubt many of the perpetrators were BFTers.[/#0000ff]
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I frequent the site you speak of as I am a fly fisherman. I can say that a lot of the no hotspotting debate is based on selfishness. Most prefer solitude and are of the elitest type and would never use bait or harvest a trout even when the DWR puts up signs asking them to. I choose not to give reports on certain places I fish, because the locations cannot withstand the pressure and I like to think of it as my little honey hole. However when I fish large resevoirs (Strawberry) I have no problem giving up the info, as there are litteraly millions of fish available. I have met some of the guys on the other site and can say they are good guys just a little rough on the web.
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I've been witness to a number of "internet reports" that have directly contributed to more people on some of the lesser known waters around. I don't think you can hotspot Strawberry or Willard or other big and popular bodies of water, but those other lesser-known spots are a different story. Granted, the outdoors shows and magazines have a part in it as well, but the internet reaches far more people IMO.
But if I had a little stream I liked to fish, and it wasn't very popular, I sure as heck wouldn't be advertising it on the internet to show how good I was because I caught 50 fish one day.
Seriously, I know there are some people who post reports to give helpful info, but you have to admit there are a lot of people that find it a big ego boost.
Anyway, it's a free country and people will do what they want...
BTW, catchandrelease, I find your post fairly hypocritical. I have no idea what website you're talking about, but I assume it's a FF only site or something. You say, "They made fun of BFT" and then you turn around and call them "snobby yuppies". Pot, kettle, kettle, pot.
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My $.02 on hotspotting. More hotspotting is done by the DWR fishing reports, sporting shows and the newspapers than most people. Granted, there are certain honey holes some do not like to share, but common Strawberry ruined by hotspotting. That reservoir has been highly promoted by Utah DWR as a primary fishing destination, same with the Green River. I made the mistake of posting my success and was blasted for it. The river I "hotspotted" was well known and the techniques I used widely used (I fly fish).
When fishing becomes elitist then people stop fishing. How unwelcoming is it to hit a site and have the people jump down your throat for sharing. When I am on the river fly fishing, I have no problem sharing with people. I figure if they can enjoy their day great, if they throw bait, good for them. But it does no good to in-fight with each other. Fly fishermen are NO BETTER than anyone else PERIOD. Catch and release is great (I do practice it) but if someone wants to take home a limit to eat, great do so. It is my opinion that the catch and release mentality rammed into our brains by fly fishermen is doing harm on a lot of rivers. Lots of stunted fish not enough food. Yet they complain there are no big fish. You can't have it both ways people.
So let the few people on other sites drink tea with their pinkies up and look down their noses at us. I don't have time for it, I would rather fish.
If anyone wants some pointers about local streams, I will gladly share, PM me.
katghoti
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Snobby Yuppis-
I see the point you're trying to make. I'll call a spade a spade anyday. (Not you)
There are fly fishermen that are wonderful folks. I love to fly fish, but I don't consider myself above anyone else. I'm another normal joe that loves to catch fish and help others do so. What drives me crazy (both for bait and fly fishers) is when one is inferior to the other. This elitist attitude drives me crazy. I was reading a post that talked about how bait fishers just put a worm on a hook with some smelly stuff and sit and wait. Immediately I thought of Tube Dude and others that have spent as much or more time learning fish behavior and caught them on bait. Is he inferior for his style of fishing? Absolutely not.
People's wallet is what decides who my friends are...it helps, but it doesn't decide who my friends are.
That's the snobby yuppy part of which I spoke. I'm sure there are some mighty nice folks there too. Just the attitude that drives me nuts. IMO.
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[#0000ff]As we have all seen, there are those who seem able to pull themselves up only by pulling others down. It is to see, but need not make any of us feel badly. [/#0000ff] [/reply]
I agree. Katghoti, I'm sure you have an ax to grind with whoever called you for hotspotting or whatever, but it's a little funny when you have to "pull yourself up by putting down other people" and stick it to the "tea-drinkers". LOL, good stuff.
Anyway, it's all good. Kumbaya, guys...
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Agreed. Well put!!!! On a little bit of a side note, I heard the name "Orvis Dork" a while back (I read it on another board too). It refered to the people dressed head to toe in some name brand fly fishing gear that somehow figured they were better than the others because of the cost of the gear... It has since been placed in my vocabulary. Great term (applicable not only to FF)
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Oh crap.......dang it my secret honey hole has been outted! [mad]
Before we here at BFT shared reports about it, nobody even knew it was there! [  ][cool] That is great stuff! lol
If someone is to be accused of hotspotting, I would hope that it was for a small, delicate water that cannot handle pressure, not the #1 fishing destination in the state (and arguably, in the West) that has been the most popular in Utah for years and years. funny funny
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Just my two cents worth. I found a stream in the Black Hills of South Dakota that was an unreal brown trout fishery. I made the mistake of letting one bigmouth in on it & within a year it was toast.
I'll still share hot spots on larger waters & very selectively on smaller waters with people I know will catch & release for the most part and will keep it to themselves. Smaller waters are fished out in short order if hit heavily by hookem & cookem types.
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That's probably true. I don't keep fish out of rivers for the most part. The fish I do keep are the regular ordinary planters that are meant to take. I agree with you on the small volatile fisheries. I don't think a name of a place hurts anyone...IMHO. Besides, most people won't get off their tails and go off the beaten path to find the place. However, I do agree. There are some "honey holes" that can't take tons of pressure. Then my favorite is when people complain some places are too crowded but won't give up information to help other people go elsewhere.
To me, it's a respect issue. If someone tells you of a great small fishery, respect the resource and the person who showed it to you enough not to ruin it for them and everyone else.
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UOTF member here, have been for about 4 years, I've met most of the regulars over there. For the most they are great guys who love to post a little sarcasm and poke a little fun here and there. Hotspotting is a big deal over there and is a no-no. I'm not quite sure why you made over half your post about the other forum instead of 100% about hotspotting. Was it because you couldn't let those guys have the last BFT vs UOTF upper cut? Pathetic.
As for hotspotting. Those guys over there don't have issues with the Provo River this, Strawberry that, and Jordanelle smallies hold on tight. The idea is if you let some of it be reported it won't be long before even more of it is reported. I just burned myself by letting out some generic info to one guy who posted a report here about his trip and now he's got several more guys going up with him next week because of his generic report. Once those several guys go fish it they'll report or go tell their buddies and so on. Soon enough it won't be what it is now. I shouldn't have given the info I did, and this was a member I've been fishing with, a big time regular here at BFT.
Now for my next point. Most of the regular and every once in awhile posters don't run out to Jordanelle just because someone posted they caught 50 fish. They are like me. I've got a dump truck full of places I can fish, and more than likely I'd rather hit somewhere else than join Salt Lake at Jordanelle. I'm a fairly seasoned fly fisher and I don't need reports to get me into fish. Before I was seasoned and just fished every 2-3 months I was out looking for those hotspotting reports, why? because I only got out every 2-3 months and I wanted to catch some fish with my limited time on the water. The majority of fisherman are exaclty this way. They are headed out for their quarterly fishing trip and they know to come on over to BFT and get the goods as to where, when, how, and what handed right over like a free donut.
I don't agree completely with BFT's reporting mentality, but this is BFT and it's not my business to try and change that or dish any shots out directed towards BFT, just like it's not with UOTF.
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Pathetic?
You must have me  with the wrong person...I just wondered and didn't take any shots at it as I am not a member of that site. Was referred to look at it for some good info and observed the post and thought I'd post it here to get debate from the other side. Getting information from both sides of the fence isn't pathetic. It wasn't an uppercut I was looking for, I just noticed the attitude of the posts and made a comment about it.
The attitudes about different issues on both sites are as different as night and day. My brother told me about the site. He told me about it and said there was some really cool stuff on the site. I looked at it, made my observations, and brought up the same question. Each will have it's own spin and we can take each idea how we will.
I do agree with you that most people aren't going to go out and fish just from a post...most people have their own places to go and, from what I gather, just like to know what is going on elsewhere.
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I was reading another website and there was quite a heated debate over the issue of hotspotting. ...they made fun of BFT and the general attitude of several of them was rather rude and stuffy. I've met several of you BFTers ... Some mighty nice folks and I must say that I would rather share water with most of you than with some of those snobby yuppies.
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In the same breathe that you chastise them for being rude, you call also call them snobby yuppies.
The sites are very similar, in that both have very nice people, and rude people. Both sites cater to very different people.
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Oh my! Strawberry has trout in it? And its good fishing??? Great, now the secret is out. Man, there goes that lake. Next thing you know is someone will spill the beans about big lakers in Flaming Gorge. And the real "secret" is the river that runs out of it, but I'm not telling the name. That would be the end of that! [sly][sly][sly]
Anyone who fishes a small and/or secluded place isn't going to post about it unless they're just stupid. The fact is, there just aren't many secret spots left in this country. What's everyone so worried about??? There's too many fishermen chasing too few fish all over hammered lakes and rivers everywhere. Word will get out on anyplace that's better than average. Deal with it. For those who take the time so seek out "secret" places, there's a few around, but you can bet that others know the "secret" too.
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Another thing that a lurker learns quickly who is chasing after internet posts is that people tell fish stories. It's not hard to add an inch or two or six here or a lb, or two there or a fish or twenty when you're hiding behind a computer screen. I know first hand of a few fish stories that have been passed around on BFT. That 25" scofield rainbow from last week's post was 22". I know of a couple people who headed up after that post expecting some big fish, they caught a couple standard 14-16 inchers. Scofield can handle some pressure, but there are waters that can not handle the pressure. Those waters need to be protected if you enjoy fishing them or they will be altered due to exposure or out right lies. What's wrong with giving a report, sharing some photos and giving a general area for these locations? Oh that right, this board just a big brag session for some people, and it's usually these guys that are full of B.S.
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Icthys does make a good point. If you don't like another website -- why bother even mentioning it -- you're now just creating more of the "us vs. them" mentality you say you don't like and now introducing it to the website here (where BFT is trying to be free of this behavior). You have your opinion that has been expressed. I'm sure people on the other website feel their opinions are as important as yours concerning the matter -- only you call them "attitudes" because they don't agree with your point of view. So whose opinion (attitude) is more important? Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion of hostpotting, you resort to name-calling.
Now that I know what site you're talking about (assuming icthys is correct), I've seen the site and sure there are dorks there (as there are here too), but everyone is entitled to their opinions, right?
I really like BFT for the general avoidance of the whole stereotyping and name-calling. Now I see it rears it's ugly head. Let's all look in the mirror first before we start to label and judge other's opinions just because they're different than ours.
Peace out!
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I agree with what has been said. Just getting info from both sides. I'm sure there's great guys and dummies on both sides of the fence. I'm a dummy most of the time!!!
One thing that can't be avoided is just the divide between sites. People see things the way they see them, you might help them see the other side, not right or wrong, just different perspective.
I didn't mean to be rude about the other side. High mindedness on either side (I fly fish almost exclusively) drives me nuts. That's all.
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People complain day in and day out about the DWR and thier policies. We have a RAC in place, and everyone hates it, because "it doesn't work", and that Don Peay's political clout is why he get's what he wants through the process.
This thread gives me the answer to why this process doesn't work for fishermen. Seperation. Why is it that fishermen can never agree on anything. We're so hypocritical, and against each other, it's no wonder we can't get organized (like Don Peay) and play the system to our advantage. We're to busy arguing with the Orvis Dorks and the Bait Chuckers over whether or not it's ethical to take home a legal limit of fish! If fishermen could ever quit fighting amongst themselves, organize, and work together, we'd be a mighty force. Until that day, we'll continue to debate whether reports are a good, or bad thing. We'll debate the pro's and con's of barbed vs. barbless hooks. We'll argue over which technique is superior; the fly vs. the dough.
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[cool][#0000ff]I've fished with you and you are not a dork or a dummy...well, not always.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In case nobody else recognizes this for what it is, it is just another case of proprietary belonging. It rears its head continually in matters of schools, religions, clubs, politics, etc. We all want to belong...to something. And, once we make our decisions, it seems to become an US VS THEM thing. Wars have been fought over it and people kill their friends and family members over disputes arising from a difference of belonging, etc.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Everytime the issue comes up on this board, I roll my eyes and say "Oh no, not again." There is room for all of us, and all of our opinions. There is not room for bigots and narrow minded people who attack others simply because they do not belong to the same groups we do...or believe in the same thing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now how about a big group hug across the Internet and let's all go fishing...but don't tell anybody else where you're going. Maybe that will be the beginning of FISHERMAN'S ANONYMOUS.[/#0000ff]
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