No Yuba Perch in '07

[Troll]

Sorry, tried to edit.

As soon as I setteled down and got the fire out of my mouth I wanted to say it takes a lot of guts to register on here and defend yourself.
You have my respect and admiration for that.
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[ScottyP]

The last RAC was held in a junior high auditorium. After the dedicated hunters left (hundreds of them) the remaining folks that stayed for the aquatics portion could have fit in my livingroom. If I'm not mistaken, the RACs would be delighted to keep that auditorium full.
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[Fin-S-Fish]

hey kent totally agree with you in your description of the process.
I have a graduate degree from the University in Environmental Rhetoric and Communication.....What you are describing is what theorists describe as a DECIDE, ANNOUNCE, and DEFEND approach to public decision making. I guess they are saying now with the new process, it is somewhat possible for public input to be incorporated into the actual decision making process rather than a facade of incorporating public input. We'll just have to see next time. Yes, of course, as a critical academic, I'm somewhat skeptical still. Not only does this apply to wildlife.....which I may sometime study the process in Utah and write a dissertation, but it has been relevant to a number of environmental decisions regarding matters such as hazardous waste disposal facilities, etc.

[tlspyder13]

I understand somewhat the need for info to be given in May but what if it doesn't exist in May? How is the public to know what to propose in May if the changes are not out yet? The public needs to have time to find out what is going to happen and then have time to comment and ask for changes. When is that time with this process? I went to the RAC meeting to listen to the big game changes and stayed to support others in their attempt to change the rules at Yuba. Most of the people there were didicated hunters who had to be there. If the RAC and DWR want public support the public has to have a voice or it will always be only those forced to be there. Why go if the everything was decided months ago and all you can do is say how great the changes are?
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[UTBASS]

Thanks for the enlightenment! So, MAY 2k7 is the time to submit requested changes for 2k8?

Seriously folks, let's out-number the Dedicated Hunters and finally make a solid showing & voice for the "Other" sportsmen in this state.

The List Starts Now:

1) Allow Perch to be harvested on Yuba.
2) Do away with the silly regs for bass fishing on Jordanelle, Deer Creek, Echo, Rockport & Utah Lake.
3) Live Bait Useage on specific lakes.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Allow me to extend my personal welcome to our humble forum, and to express my appreciation for your participation. Apologies for popping off if you took my remarks personally. If you read previous posts, you will have seen that I defended your position at the RAC meeting. I AM sympathetic to the processes establishd and the reasons for them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You have difficulty understanding/believing how the perch population "suddenly" exploded. I allow you the courtesy of recognizing your trout-oriented personal tastes, and your apparent lack of experience in perchology...or your lack of time on the water at Yuba in a non-trout fishing capacity. I fish for trout and perch...and walleye and northerns...etc.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Those of us who have continued to regularly fish Yuba, since the drain and replanting, have tried to closely monitor what has been going on, from an angler perspective. Some of us have had training and background in biology and fisheries management. Most have not. But, we are good fishermen who usually catch fish and are capable of accurate observation.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Backing up to late summer of 2005, first we observed large numbers of young-of-the-year carp swarming the waters around the dam. Thousands of them all over the surface. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Not long afterward, the abundant fathead minnows showed up at that end of the lake. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]There were huge schools on the surface and all around the edges. They were seemingly limitless in numbers and the big rainbows came to the party, along with other predators.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The word got out and anglers began flocking to the lake by the first of October '05. Large numbers of rainbows were taken on just about every kind of bait or lures you could throw at them. The trout that were kept were all stuffed with fathead minnows and were fat and healthy.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Throughout the period from October to early December, the fishing peaked about the end of October and then dropped off as the minnows retreated to the depths. During the heyday, some anglers caught a few nice perch, up to 12", but nothing smaller and not many of the larger ones. We were encouraged that some of the planted perch had survived and speculated about how long it would take for a "full recovery". We saw no evidence of the hordes of young perch that had hatched that year, but had gone unnoticed by either DWR or anglers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Anglers fishing Yuba in the early spring, for walleyes, could not find walleyes. They also did not find many perch. Occasionally one would take a walleye bait or lure, but still no evidence of the hungry horde below.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now, the spring netting DID produce a lot of perch...with 4 identifiable year classes and some of respectable size. That WAS presented to RAC, but after the "cutoff" date. That was the first indication to either DWR or anglers that the perch were on the upswing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The nature of perch is that they really do not become aggressive feeders until the spring spawn is over and temps warm a bit. That is usually about May. Well, on fishing trips after mid May in 2006, the perch started showing up. Jigs and baits fished for walleye or northerns began to bring in perch. Anglers trolling for trout began catching perch at all depths and all over the lake. It was a surprise, and nobody had any inkling at that point just how abundant the perch were. They can hide out on the bottom in deep water for months without showing up for anglers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I fished Yuba several times in June, before the power squadron and the summer crowd pushed me to friendlier waters. Each trip I caught more and more perch...some by accident, and others on purpose, when I wanted to catch SOMETHING.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Anglers began returning to Yuba around Labor Day, after the recreational boating subsided and water temps began dropping. We hoped to find some early trout action. We were also looking for fathead minnows to harvest for winter ice fishing. We found neither at the times and places they could be found last year at the same time. All we found were vast schools of hungry perch. Anglers were frustrated by not being able to even fish for trout or other species without donating bait to perch or having to reel in one of them on every cast made with lures. Trout trollers were exasperated by the pesky perch too.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As moderator for this board, I see all the reports and I also tap into other sources of information. My (un)professional opinion was that the perch population was far outstripping the predator base (walleyes and northerns) and that it could sustain some angler harvest. Members of DWR and other savvy anglers I spoke with strongly agreed. Nobody felt that anglers would make a negative impact on the perch population, even with generous limits.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Somehow I was put in the position of attending the central RAC meeting and submitting my proposal. I was assured that if it was deemed sound, and RAC voted its approval, that the proclamation could be changed in 2007. As you know, the vote was 8-2 in favor. I was encouraged.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]After the RAC meeting, my wife and I fished Yuba in 10 defined areas and released well over 400 perch between us. We verified to ourselves that the perch are all over the lake. DWR, in conjuction with members of RMA, were down there two days later, and found the same thing. According to my sources there were over 400 perch in one net...the largest number ever taken in any Utah water. There were also over 300 in a trap net, which are historically inefficient by comparison.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As I talked with various officials of DWR, RMA and the Blue Ribbon Waters group I kept hearing "There is no doubt that opening the lake to perch would be a good thing...BUT..." The BUT was always going back to procedure. It violated the process. I thought the RAC system was the process. Ultimately, the decision was to "stay the course", in spite of numerous reasons why making the change would have been beneficial.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been in the corporate world most of my working years and I learned a long time ago that decision making is vital to survival and progress. Major companies would crash and burn if they succumbed to the foot dragging and inability to make decisions that plagues governmental agencies.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry, but I have dealt with agencies and bureaus around the country on a wide variety of issues and it is always frustrating. It is my opinion that people who take positions in government or lodge themselves in committees and councils are there largely for either prestige, comfort, security, benefits, ego massage or whatever. They tend to build their own nests or little empires and they cringe at the thought of making original decisions that anyone else might someday find fault with...to their ultimate detriment. So...we have people in responsible positions that would rather make NO decisions rather than making WRONG decisions.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry to vent on you, Bro. I know you to be dedicated to your work and that you are a well known and respected angler. Nothing personal.[/#0000ff]
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[olmoose]

I was really looking forward to taking the grandsons there next year. Last time we fished Yuba, you couldn't catch any thing but perch. I think the future for walleyes and the big rainbows is doomed. Wanted to tell you thanks for trying.

[Troll]

1. Slot regs at Strawberry apply to all fish between 15" and 22".
2. Fishing (frog harvest) allowed on WFMA's.
3. Willard wiper limit lowered to 4 fish.
4. Harvest of Yuba Perch, 10 fish limit.
5. Bass regs statewide to match Jordanelle.
6. No bait on Provo above Deer Creek.
7. Musky min. size raised to 45".
8. Weed control at Mantua.
9. Carp bounty on UT Lake.
10. Hooks with more than 1 barb illegal for bait. (no trebles)

I'm sure I can come up with some more by May.

The sleeping giant awakes, and rears his ugly head.
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[PBH]

[reply]
I understand somewhat the need for info to be given in May but what if it doesn't exist in May? How is the public to know what to propose in May if the changes are not out yet?[/reply]

Well....then the public needs to wait until next May, just like this Yuba deal.


I don't really like what has happened. I fear that the public has been burned too many times by the RAC process.

At the same time, I read comments like BLM's about not knowing how the system works, and not being able to keep up with changes -- and it just makes me want to side with the DWR.

Why is it that the SFW (Don Peay) can utilize this system, while fishermen make excuses about not knowing how the system works???

I wanted this regualtion change for 1 reason: To show the fishing public that the RAC system can work for them. In this case, the Wildlife Board decided to follow the UDWR's policy of waiting until May.

So, the question is: How is the public to know what to propose in May if the changes are not out yet?

Well, that's easy. You get your "data" or proposed changes in June - April, then bring it to the DWR and RAC in May of the next year. In the majority of cases, this is going to work, and it isn't that big of a deal. There will always be exceptions; they are called emergency regulation changes. Yuba is certainly not an exception.

Again, I wish this proposal would have gone through. It's too bad, but it's not a big deal, because it will go through next year without any problem, so Yuba fishermen will still win.

One thing I wish fishermen understood: Just because we want a change, doesn't mean we will get it even with lot's of public support. Sometimes, we need to understand that what we want, and what is best are not always the same thing.

Utah's RAC system is NOT perfect. However, it's good enough that every other state in the west is adopting a similar system.

I would encourage everyone, including Tubedude, to please continue to learn and use the system. Good things can come of it, if you learn to use it. If you don't believe me, simply ask Don Peay if the RAC is a good system or not. Fishermen just need to learn to come together, and use the system -- instead of fight against it.

John Weis is the perfect example of someone deciding to quit fighting against the sytem, and learning how to use it. Instead of just bitching and moaning about the DWR on internet forums, he has taken the initiative to participate in the process as an active RAC member. Tubedude has been actively participating in the process. I wish more fishermen would take that initiative and interest in our State's fisheries. They were on opposite sides of this proposal, but I thank both of them for their efforts.

Where were the rest of you?



Troll -- just some recommendations to you:

1. come up with a legitimate list of recommendations, not a wish list
2. Get some type of data to back your request.


While I don't agree with some of your recommendations, I think this is exactly how things need to work. You guys need to think, and plan, these things in advance. Don't wait until April to start working on this stuff....
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[petty4life]

So what Regulations ARE going to change for next year???
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[PBH]

Reg changes for 2007:

1. Strawberry Reservoir: The Slash mark on cuttrhoat trout will no longer be used to distinguish cutthroat trout from Rainbows.

I don't like this change. I think that anglers should propose in May a new slot limit including ALL TROUT. Anglers have already shown they cannot distinguish between rainbows and cutthroat. Let's quit giving that excuse, and just limit all Trout.

2. Grantsville bass regulations: Mandatory kill on any smallmouth bass caught from Grantsville Reservoir

3. Walleye regulation changes.
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[petty4life]

what about the proposal of 2 poles eveywhere?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Two poles will be allowed "on any waters and with a valid fishing license and two pole permit."[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Only one limit of fish will be allowed, even with a two pole permit.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Also, the two pole permit will be 365 days, just like the fishing license.[/#0000ff]
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[petty4life]

cool thats the one ive been waiting for...
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]It will sure open up the opportunities for ice fishing too. Now we can soak a big bait on one rod, while jigging with the other.[/#0000ff]
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[petty4life]

im looking forward to trolling the trout lake with 2 rods and being able to put my shuttle hawks to good use
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black]I readily admit I, along with 98% of the fishing public, do not have the first idea how to go about changes in our regulations. I’m sorry, fishing is our first concern and only when situations arise that effect us do we get involved. [/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black]You on the other hand, try and come off as someone in the know of all things great and small concerning the DWR and it’s process and workings. Did you not spend considerable time with TD trying to help him get the perch harvest proposal accepted? Apparently, you were completely unaware what the requirements were also. So when you decide to blame uneducated, uniformed fishermen remember to include yourself. You really should of known.[/black][/font]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Thanks for gettin' my back, Bro. However, in defense of PBH and some DWR personnel who tried to help, they all warned me that I might be wasting my time for this year. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The part that rankles me is that I got a lot of encouragement and lip service from the folks who ultimately shot it down, probably knowing all along that I didn't stand a chance.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Live and learn. I ain't bitter...just better educated. We don't have to like it but we have to live with it. Kind like marriage.[/#0000ff]
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[PBH]

BLM -- I'm learning the process like anyone else. I DID know about the May proposal policy. However, that was a policy created for the DWR -- a knee jerk reaction to the Provo River regulation change fiasco. Why the public should be subject to a dated proposal limit is upsetting to me. But, it's something we have to live with.

The thing about this particular situation is that Roger Wilson had a chance to show the fishing public that the RAC process works for the public as well as the DWR. However, all he did was alienate more fishermen from the process. That's too bad. Especially concerning a regulation change like perch at Yuba -- seriously, what kind of impact would this change have had?

I never said anything about anyone's education. What gripes me is that fishermen would rather complain about not knowing how the process works, than learn how to use the process. I'm not slamming you, or any other fisherman.

I'm disappointed that so many fishermen are so disinterested in the management of the sport they love.
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[Kent]

"[cool][size 1][#0000ff]Two poles will be allowed "on any waters and with a valid fishing license and two pole permit."[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Only one limit of fish will be allowed, even with a two pole permit.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Also, the two pole permit will be 365 days, just like the fishing license."[/#0000ff][/size]
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[#0000ff][size 1][#000000]That is great news, only wish they would have excluded the community ponds, those already get hammered without many of the anglers fishing with two rods rigged with bait. Just in case anyone wants to find me on January 1, 2007 I will be on the ice at Stawberry![/#000000][][/size][/#0000ff]
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