Tiger Trout at Strawberry

[bassrods]

Why limit the lakes with only one or two kinds of fish for the fisherman to catch???

Maybe some one likes to fish the Berry for tigers but does not like to fish or make the drive to Scofield??

Why limit what trout is in a lake???
All trout are planted any way...

Its a lot more fun to fish for more then one kind of fish in a lake..
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[Jacksonman]

I agree. How does it hurt to throw in some sterile species (and browns) to add variety. If the only reproducing species are cutts and kokes and browns, then there isn't an risk of long-term damage that can't be undone.

Can you imagine Strawberry that has trout population of 40% cutt, 20% bows, 10% hybrid, 15% tiger, 10% brookie and 5% brown?! Talk about a money producer! I would have no reason to fish anywhere else! And I can't see how this in any way would threaten the cutt population. STop planting the other species for 3 years and it would go back up to 80% cutt. Since browns and cutts dont hybridize, you would only have to put browns in once or twice and that should be enough for a small self sustaining population.

I would imagine that such a combination would provide more consistency with the fishery. Please oh please DWR read this thread and somehow make it happen.
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[doggonefishin]

RE "As for tigers in the Berry....why? Go to Scofield (or 150 other lakes in this state) if you want tigers. I think it's refreshing to have at least one solid fishery where they aren't dumping a billion tiger trout in there. I like catching tiger trout, I just don't want to do it everywhere. "


I agree with you. It seems like tigers are in just about every trout stillwater I have fished in this year except the Berry. It's not like there is a lack of opportunity to catch them.

As for sterile brookies and the like, what if a few escape the sterilization process and start breeding? I don't think there are ESA issues, but Strawberry as it is is an incredible fishery. Why risk messing it up? Why does everyone think that it will be better if the "species of the week" is added? Can't you guys be satisfied with catching double digit counts of 18-20+ inch fish on most trips? Where else are you going to do that?


As for browns, I have seen one picture of a post poisoning Berry brown caught out of there. There are no doubt more in there already.
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[flygoddess]

Agree! Totally. It was broke, but then it was fixed (poisoning to get rid of chub) Then it was broke again, but fixed again (the limits and slots)
I say it ain't broke now, leave it alone.
All these "Inspector Gadgets" of the fishing world that have to tinker with stuff to TRY to make it better[laugh][laugh][laugh]
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[Jacksonman]

If there is any chance brookies could start reproducing in the berry, than I would agree that not introducing them would be best. I personally think it would be great to have one of our lakes be a multi-species trophy fishery to add variety. As much as I love Strawberry, it does get old catching a bunch of 18-21 inch cutts that fight like garbage and can be so predictable. I am really glad more and more bows are showing up and getting big. But if bows, why not some tigers and cutt/bow hybrinds too?! I understand cuttbows may be hard to distinguish from regular cutts and may hard to regulate with the slot but tigers, splake and brows are all easy enough.

I just can't see any down side to adding a few hundred thousand tigers ever year to add more variety. I would sure fish it more.

Now if the chub problem were under control at Scofield, I would actually prefer Scofield to become the melting pot of multiple species. The 10lb cutt and grundles of 5-8lb tigers proves what potential that lake has. But I am worried the chubs are taking over and that drastic action may be taken in the near future.
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[obsessivefishr]

I love going to Strawberry for those cutthroat trout! Don't get me wrong I love to catch tigers as well but like its been said there are many lakes to choose from which hold these fish. This summer I went backpacking to one of my favorite places in the uintas. It was about 15 miles in to this lake and I was really excited because I hadn't fished it for 10 years. The reason I was excited was because we always catch some nice native cutthroat trout! Well I fished hard and came up with all tiger trout and only saw one cutt cruising the bank. Although it was still fun, I was disappointed that I didn't catch any cutthroat trout and if they are still in there, it probably won't be for long. Anyway, I also think it is nice to be able to go to strawberry and catch nice cutthroat trout; it is managed very well. With the tigers being more aggressive than the cutts, who knows, then the chub population gets smaller and smaller and it might throw everything off..... but then again i'm not a fishery biologist!?
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[Jacksonman]

I do agree in that Strawberry should remain primarily a cutt fishery. But mixing in some tigers and other species would sure be fun. I am not a biologist either, but I am sure they can figure out different amounts for each species so that everything can co-exist. Replace half of the bows they replace with tigers would seem like a decent idea.

Add some browns and sterile brooks if possible and wow, we have ourselves a dang fun fishery.
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[flygoddess]

Does no one feel the love for Kamloops? Seriously, if you have a chance to play with these brutes, you could care less about all the others.[][cool]
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[obsessivefishr]

Yes! I do feel the love for them! I wish we didn't have to go to the idaho to find them. Maybey they should put kamloops and tigers together because they are both sterile and get huge fast.. that would be fun!
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[Coldfooter]

Jacksonman wrote:[/quote]
I would have no reason to fish anywhere else!.[/quote]

And nor would most others in the most heavily populated area of Utah..
It known as, "sharing the wealth". Remember that as in all other states of this nation, Utahs fish and wildlife is big business above all else.
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[TS30]

[quote Jacksonman]
Can you imagine Strawberry that has trout population of 40% cutt, 20% bows, 10% hybrid, 15% tiger, 10% brookie and 5% brown?! Talk about a money producer! I would have no reason to fish anywhere else! [/quote]

I'm not trying to have a big argument here, but that makes no sense to me as written, so would like some clarification. How would it be a bigger money producer? Are you suggesting that this would all the sudden create more fishing license sales in Utah? Because even if it did increase the amount of angler hours, if it doesn't increase license sales it isn't increasing as a money producer. How would you only going to the Berry make any more money for the state than it is already making off of you? Strawberry already has by far the most angler hours per year in the state. I don't think putting in browns or other species in would change that all that much.

As for people asking for more variety while fishing....go to any water in the state other than Strawberry. You already have that. I can appreciate wanting variety in species. But those places already exist in HUGE numbers around the state. Why can't there be places for those of us who don't want to have all that variety, but appreciate a good cutthroat fishery? The people who want variety literally have hundreds of waters around the state. Those who want cutthroat fisheries have how many? It's about balance. If 95% of the stillwaters in the state the way you want it, then asking for the other 5% to be that way too is rather selfish and short sighted in my opinion.

There isn't any way to put hundreds of thousands of fish in a fishery each year without disrupting things. So to say that it will have no impact is just inaccurate.
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[Fishrmn]

[quote obsessivefishr] kamloops are sterile and get huge fast.. [/quote]

Pardon me for cutting out the rest of your quote. But what the heck are you talking about? Kamloops aren't sterile. They aren't a "Frankenfish" like Tiger Trout. They're just a variety, or strain of rainbow trout.
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[riverdog]

[quote obsessivefishr]Yes! I do feel the love for them! I wish we didn't have to go to the idaho to find them. [/quote]
Utah is putting Kamloops in Flaming Gorge. So you don't have to go to Idaho.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogs/fishi...y.html.csp
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[flygoddess]

Exactly, and they TRIED to put them in Mantua (bad year) But it would be a perfect addition to Strawberry where they are not competing for food with HUGE Lakers.

I tell ya this, Put Kams in Strawberry and I would be packing 7 wt. and bigger.

Pardon me for cutting out the rest of your quote. But what the heck are you talking about? Kamloops aren't sterile. They aren't a "Frankenfish" like Tiger Trout. They're just a variety, or strain of rainbow trout.

Fishrmn


They aren't a Hybrid, they are a strain...not Frankenfish...the real thing like Bonneville, Yellowstone, Bear Lake.
They are a Canadian breed.

http://www.bcadventure.com/ronnewman/kamloops.phtml
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[Jacksonman]

My thoughts are that people would be fishing more which always brings in more money (gas, food, gear, etc). There would be a few new license sales from in state but I think we would have tons of out of state fishermen coming more often. I drive 6 hours to fish Henrys once or twice a year and run into tons of Utah anglers while there. Add some new big species to Strawberry and it wouldn't be long before there are anglers from all over the west coast coming to Strawberry several times per year. I never see the campgrounds full so I would bet that would change.

As far as fishing pure cutt fisheries, they seem to be all over and the new trend in Utah. But Utah is adding Tigers to many of these fisheries such as CCR and many other smaller lakes throughout the state. It looks they are turning Scofield into Strawberry 2 with the amount of cutts and nothing else that they dumped in this year.

Cutts and Tigers fish very differently. For most of the year at the Berry, the fish would hardly cross paths as Tigers stay shallow and the cutts stay in 30ft+. Tigers would cover some of the same area as bows and give shore anglers more of an option during most of the year.

If people saw pictures of big browns, tigers, bows and maybe even brookies and hybrids to go with the big cutts and kokes, I guarantee you there would be a boost in revenue to many different business. There may even be enough new revenue for new businesses around Strawberry.

And for Henry's those cutts do just fine with the hybrids and brooks and the brooks don't seem to be reproducing on their own or presenting any threat. Catching a 19" brookie there last week was almost as exciting as the 6 lb hybid that we caught, but we still caught 3 cutts for 1 of everything else that we caught.
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[TubeDude]

"Utah is putting Kamloops in Flaming Gorge. So you don't have to go to Idaho."

[cool][#0000ff]That will be good news to a lot of Utah troutaholics. But I doubt they will achieve the huge sizes they once did in the Gorge. Here is a pic of a 26 pound Kammie caught by the famous Del Canty on a fly at the Gorge...in 1979. [/#0000ff]
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[inline "DEL CANTY.jpg"]
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[#0000ff]That was also during the period of HUGE browns in the Gorge. Here is a pic of a 30 pounder Del caught at about the same time.[/#0000ff]

[inline "DEL CANTY BROWN.jpg"]

[#0000ff]The key to their growth was the vast numbers of chubs. Since the chubs have been decimated there has been a dropoff in the size of all species that rely on them as a primary food source. Fortunately for the macks, they get big enough to dine on small kokes and rainbows. But the bows and browns have to take pot luck on smaller food items and no longer reach the huge sizes they once did.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]We keep having these discussions on the board about putting kamloops in Utah waters...and expecting them to grow to huge sizes. As always, they will grow only to the size that their available resources allow. With the virtual elimination of redsides in Strawberry...and the lack of any small chubs between fry stage and large adults...the kamloops would probably not grow any larger than the current plantings of triploid rainbows. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have caught kamloops in their native lakes in British Columbia where a big one was 18". Just because they are a certain strain does not mean they will automatically grow huge. They gotta have the groceries.[/#0000ff]
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[bassrods]

It seems that with out a feeder fish like the chub most lakes only have small or average size fish, so why do most hate them so much???

And if we don't have slot size limits on the lakes they just get fished out as well...Or only have small fish...
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[flygoddess]

Again, I am no biologist, but I think they would do just fine in Strawberry. They would have been okay in Gorge if the Lakers were more in check don't you think?

Food is a given with any species.

I know of two lakes in Idaho, that offer the same forage as Strawberry and I am never disappointed in how fast and big they get.

I have family in B.C. and that is where I first learned of them.

We had them at the Lodge I guided at and they grew noticeably fast.
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[TS30]

I won't say you're wrong, because I just flat don't know what the impact would be on businesses, out of state fishermen, etc. But if Strawberry can't put businesses around it right now, being the highest angler hours in the state, I don't think putting in a couple different species would all the sudden make it a boom town. One thing I will say is to not assume that just because Henry's is the way it is, that Strawberry would be the same. From what I gather, Henry's is one of the most fertile lakes there is. Stawberry, for what it is, is not even close to the same dynamics as Henry's.

I'm not against putting more species in Strawberry. I just think that throwing something in to see what happens is short sighted. There is a reason many of our lakes that should be able to achieve trophy potential in this state don't. And demanding that every lake be the same in Utah to offer a large variety of species is selfish, as not everyone desires that in their fishing. There has to be places where you can get both. And as of now, I bet over 95% of the stillwaters in Utah fit the mold of the variety. So why not use them instead of pushing to get one of the few that aren't that put into the same mold?

I think Jordanelle could turn into the type of fishery you are talking about. Let's push Jordanelle to be the mixed bag that attracts people from out of state. Start boosting some of the other waters that aren't already the highest angler hours in the state. Plus, there is communities around it that already attract out of state folk. Park City could be a fishing town, not just a ski bum and tree hugger town.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Hey, I love the loopies. No matter what size they are they seem to have a whoop-a$$ gene that makes them fight noticeably harder than other strains of rainbows...and especially harder than almost any cutt ever thought of fighting.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I'm guessing they would do very well in Strawberry. They can adapt to whatever food sources are there. But they would just be competing with the regular rainbows and would be almost impossible to tell them apart just by looking at them. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is another lake in Idaho that has Kamloops. Lake Pend O'Reille up in the pan handle. The fishery has changed over the years but it used to produce loops over 30 pounds fairly often. The bigguns fed on small kokanee and were very aggressive. I am sure that if some were planted in Strawberry that they would become a factor in the koke fishery of that lake...and would get some real shoulders once they got large enough to munch the salmonettes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I don't think the lack of kamloops in Utah is an ecological thing at all. I suspect it is more a matter of DWR mindset and status quo. Putting more of them in Flaming Gorge is a start. But don't look for them in many other waters that are already on the hatchery pet stocking list.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I never did hear from a reliable source what the reasoning was for discontinuing the stocking of kamloops in the Gorge in the past. But I doubt the lakers had that much impact on them. I think they just lived out their 5 -7 year lifespan and died out without much natural reproduction...or hybridized with other rainbows when they were no longer planted. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The single biggest impact on all the species was the decimation of the chubs. I recall coming into the marinas over there in the late 70s and almost being able to walk across the water on the backs of the huge masses of chubs. That is definitely what the big trout were getting big on. But when the smallmouths also started eating the chubs, along with all of the big trout they reached a "tipping point" and the predation exceeded annual production of chubs through spawning. It went quickly downhill from there and the big fish had to adapt.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now, if we could prove that kamloops would eat the heck out of burbot....[/#0000ff]
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