Outcast Trinity: Bladder or No Bladder?

[SHigSpeed]

Quick question: Does the Trinity have a shell and bladder construction or sealed coated skin?

I've always assumed that it was a sealed coated skin, but the repair instructions that are on the manual seem somewhat strange for patching a coated bladder.

Just trying to get a sanity check!

_SHig
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[TubeDude]

[font ""][size 3]Inflated Size: 41 x 54"
Weight: 6 lbs.
Air Cell Type: Urethane Coated
Load Capacity: 325 lbs.
Seams: Sewn
Warranty: 5 Year

Fabric Denier
400 UCN
400 UCN[/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][#000000][size 3]

[cool][#0000ff]I checked several sources. As near as I can tell it is UCN...Urethane Coated Nylon shell...not a urethane air bladder.[/#0000ff][/size][/#000000][/font]
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[SHigSpeed]

Yeah, that's my impression too, but they describe a patching method (over the uncoated raw side of the fabric) using Type A Tear Aid.

They do say that it's temporary though, so perhaps it works okay for a while... Good to know as I'm suspecting I may chase some bubblers with my new UL tube.

_SHig
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Are you one of those guys that can't be trusted with sharp objects...like hooks, knives, fingernails, etc.? [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Not sure I would kick very far away from shore until I was confident in the seams and the overall toughness of the skin. I just hate it when you are on the water and hear the sound of bubbles. Even worse is a WHOOSH...followed by that sinking feeling...and cold water.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I hope you are going to do some short shakedown cruises at lower altitude and in shallow water before hiking all the way back in to a prime fishing spot only to find out you had an "equipment malfunction".[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I guess adding a layer of bulletproof ceramic (like on a Humvee) might destroy the light weight concept.[/#0000ff]
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[SHigSpeed]

[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000ff]Are you one of those guys that can't be trusted with sharp objects...like hooks, knives, fingernails, etc.? [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Not sure I would kick very far away from shore until I was confident in the seams and the overall toughness of the skin. I just hate it when you are on the water and hear the sound of bubbles. Even worse is a WHOOSH...followed by that sinking feeling...and cold water.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I hope you are going to do some short shakedown cruises at lower altitude and in shallow water before hiking all the way back in to a prime fishing spot only to find out you had an "equipment malfunction".[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I guess adding a layer of bulletproof ceramic (like on a Humvee) might destroy the light weight concept.[/#0000ff][/quote]

Of course I'll be doing a lot of testing on the manufacturing techniques and materials used, but it's up to the operator to exercise the appropriate care when using the thing. People for years have been using similarly dainty-skinned pack rafts and even the Del Canty tube without mass extinction.

The urethane that they use to coat the fabric is quite durable really, and the fabric is there pretty much only to reduce the elasticity of the coating and provide a bit of abrasion resistance.

Now drop a 5 lb kitty on it and it may puncture, but so will many "standard weight" tubes. It won't "unzip" unless you drop your machete on it!

As soon as I get my fabric next week I'll be doing a lot of seam strength and burst resistance testing and posting up results. Should be fun!

_SHig
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[flygoddess]

If it has zippers it has a bladder, but the description is confusing. I love one write up where it states 6 lb's but then in the specs it reads 8 lbs??????
Some say sewn seam. others (like Outcasts) says welded....now welded to me says bladderless[crazy]

A far as the "People for years have been using similarly dainty-skinned pack rafts and even the Del Canty tube without mass extinction. "
Larry clearly stated to take a patch kit with you at all times as they are prone to leaks.

Echoing Tube Dude on allot of testing, specially if you intend to sell these things. And of course some kind of insurance in this day and age[]
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[SHigSpeed]

[quote flygoddess]If it has zippers it has a bladder, but the description is confusing. I love one write up where it states 6 lb's but then in the specs it reads 8 lbs??????
Some say sewn seam. others (like Outcasts) says welded....now welded to me says bladderless[crazy]

A far as the "People for years have been using similarly dainty-skinned pack rafts and even the Del Canty tube without mass extinction. "
Larry clearly stated to take a patch kit with you at all times as they are prone to leaks.

Echoing Tube Dude on allot of testing, specially if you intend to sell these things. And of course some kind of insurance in this day and age[][/quote]

I think 6 lbs is bare boat, 8 includes pump and pack.

And insurance? I don't know what you'd do with it but these things are all weather patio furniture, nothing more.

_SHig
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[pontoonman]

Says here in the first post there are 4 compartments. http://forums.flyfisherman.com/forum/sti...float-tube That would probably mean shell and bladder would be my guess. There are also tiny survival rafts used by downed pilots that can be bought at army surplus stores. Very compact and durable construction which might give you some ideas when you get to putting your creation together....
Hope this helps.

Pon

[quote SHigSpeed]Quick question: Does the Trinity have a shell and bladder construction or sealed coated skin?

I've always assumed that it was a sealed coated skin, but the repair instructions that are on the manual seem somewhat strange for patching a coated bladder.

Just trying to get a sanity check!

_SHig[/quote]
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[pontoonman]

Here's a less durable, one and a half pound curtis design based on the pilot's survival raft: http://classicreport.blogspot.com/2009/0...rafts.html
and http://sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12070

Pon
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[SHigSpeed]

[quote pontoonman]Here's a less durable, one and a half pound curtis design based on the pilot's survival raft: [url "http://classicreport.blogspot.com/2009/05/packrafts.html"]http://classicreport.blogspot.com/2009/05/packrafts.html[/url]
and [url "http://sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12070"]http://sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12070[/url]

Pon[/quote]

Thanks for the links Pon. I've been talking to a guy who markets a "replacement" to the Curtis raft and he's been helping me figure out ways to get this thing together. Also talking to others who have tried making rafts and will be learning from their mistakes. Not going to be much hassle I don't think. If his numbers for seam strength jibe with what I find, I'll be golden.

BTW, I love this photo! :



He doesn't look too happy, but I suppose he's alive!

Wouldn't be too happy fishing out of it either though...

As for the Trinity, I still think that it's bladderless otherwise there'd be no reason to have the external seams that it does. The inflatable seats do still look like bladder in skin though.

_SHig
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[pontoonman]

Yes, I thought that picture was funny, also. But if you want light weight and durable you may have to put up with discomfort. This is supposed to be durable enough to keep someone alive on the high seas until rescue. So I'm wondering what kind of material could take that kind of punishment and still be so light weight? I think the listed 7# includes the inflation canisters, drogue, overhead tube etc, so maybe with those removed, the curtis drops to 1.5 #.... I have a slightly different green version of the same design without the overhead tube bought many years ago at a giveaway price. Seemed like a good deal at the time, but have never used it, the material looks sort of thin....

Pon
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