Which Fly

[flygoddess]

I have been thinking about this for awhile. Kelly Galloup mention on one of his videos, that when running a Tandem fly (two hooks) that the fish would hit the front fly or the head.

I started trying to make note as to my experience.

So my question to everyone, when you fish a fly or a lure with more than one hook, which hook are they getting caught on? I know in some cases with lures that have several treble hooks, several can get hooked in the fish making it hard to determine which was the first.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000FF]I fish tandem rigs a lot. Mostly hi-low small tube jigs but also combos of larger plastics with smaller, etc. Also use a lot of marabou jig combos. And I sometimes do quite well with a jig and fly setup...either with the jig on top and the fly as a trailer or the jig on the bottom with the fly as a dropper.

My belief is that there are a lot more factors that determine which offering the fish hits besides the position of the individual offerings. With the stuff I use it is a combination of size, color and depth of presentation. And sometimes there does not seem to be anything specific...with the fish hitting either or both with about the same degree of regularity.

That being said, there are days when I change around the positions of the bottom and top lures just to do a blind check on whether or not color or position makes a difference. And sometimes one lure will clearly establish itself as the hot lure dujour. I have had a lot of days on the water, when trying out some new stuff, that I am constantly trying different offerings...both to find something they WOULD hit and/or something they WOULDN'T hit.

Most of my fishing is for non-trout species, but I have had plenty of experience with fishing tandem rigs for troutkind too. And my observations seem to hold up pretty well on both sides. I suspect that fishing stillwater might be somewhat different than stream presentations. I used to fish tandem fly rigs on spinning gear with bottom bouncer rigs. There were definitely times when whatever I fished closest to the bottom caught the most...but not always. And patterns seemed to be more critical when the fish were in a selective mode.

Oh yeah, I almost never fish with trebles. I make virtually all of my spinners and jigging spoons with single hooks.
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[SkunkedAgain]

When I use a RMT dodger and squid with tandem hooks its the rear hook quite often that I hook up on, but they are very close together like 2" apart. Does anyone know a good source for learning a good knot for tying a tandem hook setup? I'd like to try this method for ice jigs but my method always weakens after several fish and I lose the fish and bottom jig. Thanks J
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[BagABigOne]

I think any knot will weaken after fighting fish. I've heard the pros retie often if not after every fish caught. I know I need to do this more often.
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[flygoddess]

Great info. More than I expected.
I miss worded my post in that I am interested in your findings when using ONE fly/lure with multi hooks.
Which hook are they hitting, the head or the tail hook?
However, much of what you guys have already offered can help in this study.
Thanks
FG
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000FF]If you are referring to a lure like a Rapala...with two sets of trebles...front and rear...there can also be variables there. A lot may depend on the activity level of the fish on any given day. Aggressive fish will often attack the lure head first. Tentative takers might nip at the tail rather than a full frontal assault.

Some species seem to be more inclined to hit one end or the other too. And I am sure that their method of attack is influenced by the food they are accustomed to and how they have learned to best kill or disable it on the first chomp. But if they are simply responding to an intruder in their territory, or making an inquisitive exploratory taste, who knows?

One other consideration is how the lure is being fished. If you are trolling or retrieving at a fair speed, the chances of having the fish hit the tail hook seems to be greater. But not always. I have caught quite a few fish on a fast retrieve that have been impaled on the front set of trebles. But if you are using a "jerk bait" or some other stop and start retrieve that allows the fish to better choose its point of attack the odds of hooking up on the forward hooks is increased.

Then there is the size of the fish, relative to the size of the lure, etc. I have caught some small aggressive fish on lures that were not much smaller than the fish that attacked them.

Kinda difficult to make any hard and fast generalizations.
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[RockyRaab]

As to the knot, I use a uni-knot snell on the front hook and a davy knot on the trailer when I tie up bare hook rigs like a worm harness. That wouldn't work with a two-hook fly unless you tied it up before beginning the wrapping, of course.

When I fish a two-fly dropper rig, I like to tie a Palomar on the top fly the same way bass guys tie up a drop-shot rig, so the top fly stands perpendicular to the line - MUCH reducing the tangle quotient while increasing the hookup chances. (It does require three total thicknesses of line through the eye of the top fly, which isn't always possible.)
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[riverdog]

I don't fish all that much with more than 1 hook. However for me I clearly catch more on the tail hook than head. This is usually on lakes and in the ocean. The very little bit of river fishing I do with more than 1 hook I think is close to a 50/50 split.
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[flygoddess]

Many of Kelly's flies are large tandem bait fish imitations like the Rapala and he does fish a lot of rivers.
Maybe speed has a lot to do with it. Either in stripping line, reeling line in or current. Could this make fish more aggressive and therefore attach to stun and slow the prey down?

Big tandem flies (as well as articulating) are becoming more popular. I find myself using larger flies with stingers during periods when fish are slapping on the feed bag. I am getting mixed results, but I am now leaning towards the aggressive attitude of the fish. Seems when the fly is just SLAMMED that it is indeed the head hook.
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[TroutBumDave]

I noticed earlier in the year that the white bass in the Jordan (I somehow found a spot that was pretty clean and clear, all things considered) would smack my flies almost always from the side. There were usually 2 to 5 fish attacking the fly at the same time, but the winner almost always would come up from behind, veer off to one side, and then smack it. It didn't always hook up, but there would be his buddy next in line to do the same thing.

I observed this behavior maybe 100 times over a few trips. Fun to watch. Not sure this helps, now that I think about it.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000FF]I used to make big articulated double-hook flies for fishing along the Sonoran coastline in the Sea of Cortez. Not sure that was a good experimental tank for developing surefire observations on standard fishy behavior. There were so many toothy predatory fish...of several species...that it was rare to recover your fly from even a sloppy cast without having to pry it from the jaws of an fish. In fact, there were quite a few times when the double-hooked flies brought in two fish...both of the same species or even of two different species. Tough duty.

I have also used the bigger flies in salt water for salmon, rockfish and halibut. Again, difficult to make hardcore observations because as often as not the big voracious fish would inhale the whole fly...and have both hooks inside the mouth or even down in the throat.

In freshwater, I have fished a few pike lakes with big tandem flies, with lots of bulk and bright contrasting colors. And I have had the luxury of watching the take on a lot of pike. Some come up from behind, flare their gills and suck in the whole thing. Others zoom in from the side and chomp down on the middle of the fly...even shaking their heads to help with the "kill". Rarely a simple tail taker.

I would be inclined to believe that the way fish are taking the big flies, on any given day, would be influenced by two main factors: normal hunting practices and current activity mode. And the better you are able to simulate natural prey...or create the illusion of vulnerability...the best shot you have at getting bit.

I have watched videos shot of different species of predatory fish underwater...watching how they sized up their prey and then moved in for the kill. I have also seen videos shot by anglers who were able to capture the reactions of their quarry to different presentations. One of the most exciting sequences showed a big Kamloops rainbow from Lake Pend D'oreille in Idaho. It followed behind a big kokanee imitating plug for a ways. Then it rocketed forward, up past the trolled plug, turned around and came back to hit the lure head-on. Vicious.

I have also seen video from Flaming Gorge that showed macks hitting big tube jigs. During some sessions the fish would approach and hit the jigs head-on. And since the single hooks were positioned to the rear, many of those strikes were not hookups. On other occasions they would either inhale (and spit out) the whole jig...or move up very slowly and munch only the tail. And it was surprising how many times these big fish would not even register a bite on the anglers' rods.

I don't pretend to have all the answers either. I just hope to be able to figure out the questions on any given trip. If I am lucky enough to determine that there are fish present, I can only hope to be able to figure out what activity mode they are in...active, neutral or inactive. If they are active...BINGO. If not then I gotta figure out some fancy colors or presentations to stimulate a reaction bite. Aggressive down-stream or cross-current retrieves may work to git 'er done. Always worth a try.

To me, that is a big part of the appeal of fishing...to match wits with "stupid" fish and actually be able to catch some...sometimes.
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[NICH]

It completely depends on what kinda of fish and what the streamer is imitating. It's not that simple... At least thats what I've found.

Things like sculpins almost always are on the front hook no matter what eats them. Something like like a baby rainbow or brown imitation will more often get t-boned and it's a toss up on front or back hook. But, what about about a craw pattern, those most definitely get eaten tail first (which would be on the front hook if tied correctly).

Then another big factor is hook set, people that are trigger happy and set with the rod instead of a strip set will ALWYAS get more fish on the back hook.

So three major variables at play in my mind: What the predator is, what the imitation of prey is and how are you are on hook-sets.

Then the final variable is if your fishing a river and at what angle are you retrieving it back to you. If you fish down and across you'll have way more hook ups on the rear hook. If you fish up and across you'll have the majority of the fish on the front hook.
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[SkunkedAgain]

Guess between my eyesight starting to fade and fingers getting less nimble, I don't like to tie on hooks any more often than I have to. Later J
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[skis_flies_ice]

I used articulated streamers quite a bit this fall, pre-spawn browns. Mostly Galloup patterns actually. Peanut envy, sex dungeon, barely legal. I am more of a bottom dredger than a bank slap and strip when streamer fishing while wading.
Proabably 70% of my eats were on the head fly. The tail hook catches seemed to happen more in faster water.
I was also swinging tandem (2) smaller streamers in the middle of a twilight hatch. Both white, lead had a cone to help get down, and the second had an epoxy eye. Was the opposite case there. The trailer was getting most of the action.
I have tyed a few articulated streamers myself and it seems to be advisable to use a short fat hook for a lead hook
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