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[quote Fishrmn][quote Gemcityslayer]Don't big lakers eat perch?[pirate][/quote]
No, they don't
[quote wormandbobber]The DWR has done diet studies at Fish Lake and [red]have not found a single perch in the stomach of any trophy lake trout[/red]...the truth is that while chubs provided an excellent food source for lakers and big splake, perch have not. [/quote][/quote]
Doesn't mean they don't eat them though.
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Hello All,
My name is Richard Hepworth, I am the aquatics manager for the Southern Region and oversee management of Fish Lake. First off let me say it is good to see all the interest and passion for one of my favorite lakes in Utah.
I would like to encourage any of you who has questions, suggestions, or ideas concerning Fish Lake Management or any other water in Southern Utah to contact me, I will do everything I can to answer your questions and will take all ideas and/or suggestions into consideration.
richardhepworth@utah.gov
(435)691-2205
Also, The UDWR has a great opportunity coming up on February 2nd at Fish Lake for any of you to come visit with myself and the other Fisheries Biologist in Southern Utah. We are holding an ice fishing clinic (see attached flyer). This is not designed to just teach anglers how to fish but an opportunity for anglers to share ideas and techniques with each other, discuss management with UDWR biologists and do it all while catching a few fish. It should be a lot of fun and hopefully educational for everyone involved.
I hope to get the opportunity to meet with some of you.
Thank you
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[quote The_Red_Leaker]
Unless there is conflicting information in your study, page 3 reads as follows.
"Only 13% of all anglers were targeting a
specific game fish while angling. Five percent were targeting rainbow trout, 1% lake trout, 1%
splake, 5% yellow perch, and 1% tiger muskie or brown trout (Salmo trutta)."
That means 87% were there to catch whatever species was willing to nibble and of the13% targeting a specific species, 38% were targeting perch while all other species each held 7% of that 13% pie. Hmmm....
As to my question of effectiveness of DNR methods to acquire input this article sums up the point I was trying to make.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/outdoors/52...s.html.csp
The article refers to a survey done in 2011 in which 1,100 anglers participated in the pole. That is .002% of the fishing/combination license holders in the state at the time. It also says that the DNR plans on making changes to waters due to the results of the survey. Making changes to waters from .002% input.....wow.
True, anglers need to more involved but the DNR should also look at methods of getting input that are more effective. I highly doubt creel surveys and RAC meetings will catch enough of the 514,438 licensed anglers (2010 number) to get accurate opinion of the majority.
Just to be clear I am not making the DNR out to be the bad guys, just trying to spark a thought.[/quote]
Yup...I screwed up my numbers. My point, though, was that the majority of anglers are targeting either any fish or trout...not perch. Yeah, of those that target a specific kind of fish, 38% target perch...but, all the trout species are separated. Many fishermen, like myself, target all trout at the same time. I am targeting rainbows, splake, lake trout, and brown trout.
The other thing you are missing is that the information was based on anglers who fish Fish Lake...these are the true stakeholders. What do those who utilize the fishery want done with it. True, only a small percentage of those anglers are surveyed...but like all surveys those surveys do help give a reflection of the bigger picture. The reality is that not every fishermen in the state or who fishes the state can or will be surveyed....the  truth is that most anglers keep quiet unless a change is made that they do not like or do not want. Otherwise, fishermen, in general, show a lot of apathy. I am not sure how you change that..or even if you want to.
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It took me an hour to read this post. I always get excited when I see posts about fish lake as it it my favorite place in the state to fish. We fish there probably twenty times a year. My old man started taking me there when I was young. It was in the late nineties. (I'm twenty six). He would always talk about the big splake and lakers he would catch back in the day. So we'd try trolling and jigging deep until I'd get bored. Then we'd go shallow and he'd let me catch perch till we ran out of bait. We did it in the boat and on the ice. Now that I'm older and have my own boat I don't even try for the macs. But I catch the hell out of the perch and rainbows.
I think it's a generational thing. My old man hates the perch almost as much as the chubs in scofield. But I love them I love catching them and I love eatin em. I've never caught a monster Mac or even a twenty inch splake. But Fish Lake is still my favorite place to fish. And even though my dad hasn't caught a laker with any size to it in twenty five years its his favorite place too. I like it the way it is and he likes it the way it was in the sixties and seventies.
Maybe if I was around back then I would hate the perch too. But I wasn't.
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Thanks for posting and opening up another avenue for input and discussion. This may be a different thread but I started thinking of ways that the DWR could reach more people for input and I have a question.
Do you have data on what percentage of fishing licenses are sold online vs over the counter?
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In all honesty, how many reservoirs fish like they did in the 60's and the 70's?
Are Perch the reason that so many reservoirs have changed?
Yes, they are a factor but there are many other factors that have caused the changes.
Is there something that the average angler can do about the problems?
Not really but we can become educated about what is good and what is bad for our fishing waters.
We can let the UDWR know what we like and dislike about the current fishing conditions of our favorite waters.
We can talk to other anglers and help to educate them and to get them involved in the decision making process.
Most of all, we can be good stewards of our waters and help to keep them clean and enjoyable.
This has been a good thread with some very good information for all of us.
I have been impressed with the civil responses and respect shown so far.
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Hello all,
I would like to take a moment to reply to the question regarding effectiveness of the DWR's sampling to determine what the majority of anglers in this state want.
The online survey identified in the Tribune article is only one of many different methods that we use to gather information. In addition to the online survey:
1. We hold open houses throughout the state each spring.
2. Our managers conduct creel surveys on individual waters and track comments received by the public throughout the year.
3. We hold public meetings on the management of individual waters. For example, the Southern Region held meetings on Panguitch, Minersville, and Navajo Lakes in 2012. You already saw the information on the ice fishing clinic/discussion planned for Fish Lake this year.
4. We meet with the organized angler groups each month.
5. Every five years we conduct a statewide survey of anglers. We simply cannot afford to do it more often than that.
6. We also monitor forums such as BFT to determine what are the hot topics in the fishing community.
While the totality of these methods do not allow us to interact with the majority of Utah anglers, we do receive input from considerably more people than we did even just a few years ago. Any ideas that would allow us to talk to more people would be appreciated.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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Paul,
Unfortunately as you already know, most people would rather complain than become proactive.
The good thing though is that they use places like this Forum to do their complaining. This gives you another option for gathering thoughts and concerns.
I have seen several DWR on line surveys posted on these forums and I think that the results have been good. What are your thoughts?
The old RAC Meetings are not functional any more.
You need to reach the people where they spend their time. What better place to poll anglers than Fishing Forums?
Between on site creel surveys and on line surveys, you will reach a lot of Utah's anglers.
Best wishes to you in trying to get anglers to respond to the issues that face us pertaining to fishing in Utah.
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"The article refers to a survey done in 2011 in which 1,100 anglers participated in the pole. That is .002% of the fishing/combination license holders in the state at the time. It also says that the DNR plans on making changes to waters due to the results of the survey. Making changes to waters from .002% input.....wow"
1100 people is a very significant sample size particularly of a fishing population in Utah.
Many nationwide polls are not much bigger and they tend to be accurate to within 2-3%.
Very good conclusions can be drawn from a population given that level of sampling.
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I believe that the addition of the online and email surveys that we have done over the last few years have provided valuable information that we would not have gotten otherwise. One of the drawbacks to using online surveys is that they are not statistically valid because everyone has the opportunity to respond, and therefore we do not have a good idea of the base population that we are surveying. However, input at public meetings falls into this same category, so just the increased numbers of respondents is a good thing.
We will continue to let everyone know when these surveys are open through posts here, media stories and other venues. We really do want to hear what people think/want in our fisheries.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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[quote ColdWaterCoord]I believe that the addition of the online and email surveys that we have done over the last few years have provided valuable information that we would not have gotten otherwise. One of the drawbacks to using online surveys is that they are not statistically valid because everyone has the opportunity to respond, and therefore we do not have a good idea of the base population that we are surveying. However, input at public meetings falls into this same category, so just the increased numbers of respondents is a good thing.
We will continue to let everyone know when these surveys are open through posts here, media stories and other venues. We really do want to hear what people think/want in our fisheries.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources[/quote]
Just a thought and the reason I asked earlier in the thread about the percentage of fishing licenses purchased on-line vs over the counter; would it be feasible to require or to ask anglers purchasing licenses on-line to fill out a survey before they are eligible to make the purchase? Similar to the harvest surveys for big game only on the front end.
There could be different surveys for the different licenses - annual, 3 day, 2nd pole etc.
This thread has taken me down some interesting paths and this is one thought I had; again, have no idea of its feasibility but thought I'd throw it out there.
Thanks for listening and coming onto the site to see a bunch of overly opinionated anglers banter.......
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It is a good idea and one that I had not personally thought of. The one potential bias to this method would be that the vast majority of people who buy their licenses online are doing so through the big game drawing process. Many of these people purchase a combination license at that time because of the price break. Fishing is a secondary activity for many of them. Anglers that do not hunt or belong to any organized group are a very difficult bunch to sample.
It is an idea that has merit however, and I am going to put it in my file for future discussion.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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Appreciate your input. Always nice to put official facts behind all the discussion.
I was gonna joke that the DWR get's all their "user input" from places like BFT - thanks for taking attention to the discussion.
Thanks to the discussers for keeping it amiable.
But - really - it's all a bunch of bull. You guys have the WRONG idea about "fish" lake. It's not about the fish at all!!!
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It has been said that Utah is a trout state..
And any state that only plants trout would be just that, but it you look over the country you will see that we like all kinds of fish..
To manage just for trout is wrong, many on this site that was raised up in Utah may only know about trout but would like to have a chance at other types of fish..
Our waters can and do have other types of fish in them but they do not get the handling and care the trout lakes get..
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[quote ColdWaterCoord]It is a good idea and one that I had not personally thought of. The one potential bias to this method would be that the vast majority of people who buy their licenses online are doing so through the big game drawing process. Many of these people purchase a combination license at that time because of the price break. Fishing is a secondary activity for many of them. Anglers that do not hunt or belong to any organized group are a very difficult bunch to sample.
It is an idea that has merit however, and I am going to put it in my file for future discussion.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources[/quote]
to ColdWaterCoord: I agree what you said about how to contact anglers that do not hunt, they would be difficult to get in contact with.
I propose a survey when we purchase our combo in February during the draw period. To have what lake each individual plans or wishes to fish during the year and if possible to have a sub breakdown with each fish that is currently available at each body of water, allowing us to check each box of fish. (ex. Fish Lake: lake trout, tigermuskie, splake, rainbow, brook trout, perch...etc) This will not only let you know where people are fishing but what species they are targeting.
about your comment " Fishing is a secondary activity for many of them" I would have to say fishing is my primary while the opportunity to draw a deer or an elk tag is a secondary activity for me. Most individuals i can think of is probably in the same situation as me. I love to fish!!!
I would be willing and happy to take an extra 10 min while i put in for my applications to help the state of Utah with fishing information.
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[quote isda][quote ColdWaterCoord]It is a good idea and one that I had not personally thought of. The one potential bias to this method would be that the vast majority of people who buy their licenses online are doing so through the big game drawing process. Many of these people purchase a combination license at that time because of the price break. Fishing is a secondary activity for many of them. Anglers that do not hunt or belong to any organized group are a very difficult bunch to sample.
It is an idea that has merit however, and I am going to put it in my file for future discussion.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources[/quote]
to ColdWaterCoord: I agree what you said about how to contact anglers that do not hunt, they would be difficult to get in contact with.
I propose a survey when we purchase our combo in February during the draw period. To have what lake each individual plans or wishes to fish during the year and if possible to have a sub breakdown with each fish that is currently available at each body of water, allowing us to check each box of fish. (ex. Fish Lake: lake trout, tigermuskie, splake, rainbow, brook trout, perch...etc) This will not only let you know where people are fishing but what species they are targeting.
about your comment " Fishing is a secondary activity for many of them" I would have to say fishing is my primary while the opportunity to draw a deer or an elk tag is a secondary activity for me. Most individuals i can think of is probably in the same situation as me. I love to fish!!!
I would be willing and happy to take an extra 10 min while i put in for my applications to help the state of Utah with fishing information.[/quote]
This is exactly in line with what I was thinking. As to the point about it being a secondary for those putting in for hunts; the question of how many days to you plan on fishing in the next year could categorize the surveys. For example a survey stating less than 5 days has less weight than a survey that answers 20 days or more and could be easily filtered.
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Thank you all for your input. You have given me some ideas to think about.
Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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[quote bassrods]It has been said that Utah is a trout state..
And any state that only plants trout would be just that, but it you look over the country you will see that we like all kinds of fish..
To manage just for trout is wrong, many on this site that was raised up in Utah may only know about trout but would like to have a chance at other types of fish..
Our waters can and do have other types of fish in them but they do not get the handling and care the trout lakes get..[/quote]
Are you suggesting to plant bass in Fish Lake? If you'd read the report (I know, I know, cliff struggle with reading....) you'd understand that bass don't fare very well in Fish Lake.
(hey cliff -- I'll be picking up my new ride next month -- maybe you'd like to go for a ride with me? -- 2013 Ranger....)
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I went back and read what I wrote, three times and where did I say anything about any fish by name but trout???
Bass in Fish lake are you NUTS???
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I left my de-coder ring at home. So, I was  attempting to figure out what it was you were saying. I also re-read your post, and am struggling to understand what it is you are asking for.
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