inlet snagging

[fishjon]

So...

My brother was down there last night. He snagged 5 and let them all go. Several of the regular Willard crowd was disguted that they were letting them go. My bro told them it was illegal to keep snagged fish. They laughed and told him he just doesn't know how to cook. They then told him it wasn't illegal to keep snagged fish. Its just illegal to snag on purpose. He witnessed dozens of tail hooked and dorsal hooked fish go in buckets. I don't want to start a stupid debate about interpretation of the laws. I spent enough time on the mission debating interpretation. I was hoping one of the dwr people would chime in and let us know if they will write a ticket if a person keeps a accidently snagged fish, because I don't think they will. I'm worried about one of my favorite fisheries. First this same crowd is allowed to thin down the wiper population and now the dwr has turned them loose on the largest population of spawning walleye in the lake.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000FF]There are some of us who are opposed to snagging, and opening up that inlet area to the wholesale snagging that goes on there. But the initial input from DWR officers is that they are not seeing the snagging and they label us concerned anglers as "purists". What does that tell you?

It is a discretionary call for the COs. If they witness a snagged fish being kept, they CAN write a ticket. They must witness it however. In times past I saw them give a guy a snagging ticket for a legally caught fish...just because it had a snag mark on it from someone else. When I spoke up in his defense I was told to stay out of it or I would get a ticket also.

The Utah Lake tributaries were closed and kept closed many years ago. And it was not so much to protect the walleyes as to reduce the illegal practices of snagging and overlimits. Neither Willard Bay nor Utah Lake is in any danger of losing its stock of walleyes because of angler harvest...legal or otherwise. But it is fundamentally wrong to open it up to the crowd that treats it as their own personal free fish market.
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[GEEZER]

The only legal snagging I'm aware of is for paddlefish on the Missouri river and it is watched very closely by the authorities. At one time, it was legal to snag cui ui, from Pyramid lake in Nevada. I think I read that only Piute Indians are allowed to take cui ui now. As for snagging walleye, [#ff0000]MAKES ME WANNA PUKE!!![/#ff0000]
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[jiggaWHAT]

I was told the same thing down there a few days ago about it being legal if you are not doing it intentionally. I explained that they were wrong but also think it would be a very good idea to post that specific regulation on a sign there so that it cannot be refuted. This is an area where everyone knows there are going to be snagged fish. Why not make the law clear as there is obviously some interpretation issues.
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[Fishrmn]

Restrictions on taking fish and crayfish
Utah Admin. Rule R657-13-11

You may not take or land a fish by snagging or gaffing, and you may not have a gaff in your possession while fishing. The only exception is Lake Powell, where you may use a gaff to land striped bass.

That's the law as it is written. I'm thinking it could be just a tad clearer. Add something like:

Any fish that is not hooked in the mouth or jaw must be immediately released, and may not be taken.

I can see that is says you can't take or land a fish by snagging. And I guess there are those who will say that they didn't try to snag the fish.
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[fearfish]

Did ur bro say if the fishin was any good or not
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[PACKFAN]

I'm starting to think the DWR here is just like our Gov't. "THEY JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN" [mad]

If you (DWR) are going to open the inlet up to fishing during the walleye spawn, so be it, but stop allowing the snagging of fish whether intentional or not.[:/]
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[boetie84067]

[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000ff]There are some of us who are opposed to snagging, and opening up that inlet area to the wholesale snagging that goes on there. But the initial input from DWR officers is that they are not seeing the snagging and they label us concerned anglers as "purists". What does that tell you?

It is a discretionary call for the COs. If they witness a snagged fish being kept, they CAN write a ticket. They must witness it however. In times past I saw them give a guy a snagging ticket for a legally caught fish...just because it had a snag mark on it from someone else. When I spoke up in his defense I was told to stay out of it or I would get a ticket also.

The Utah Lake tributaries were closed and kept closed many years ago. And it was not so much to protect the walleyes as to reduce the illegal practices of snagging and overlimits. Neither Willard Bay nor Utah Lake is in any danger of losing its stock of walleyes because of angler harvest...legal or otherwise. But it is fundamentally wrong to open it up to the crowd that treats it as their own personal free fish market.
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Your statement: "[#0000ff]Neither Willard Bay nor Utah Lake is in any danger of losing its stock of walleyes because of angler harvest...legal or otherwise." [/#0000ff][#000000]If these snagging clowns harvest enough of those big spawning females the effect will be felt for along time. That is why they shut down all the little streams and creeks for the slimers to spawn, they should do the same for the Walleye. Just close the inlet again and all will be fine.[/#000000]
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[#000000]I know alot of these guys are keeping more than a limit as well. Just because you take a skunk home most of the time does not mean you can make up for it when the pickings are easy. Anyone who witnesses an illegal act should get a license plate # and turn them in.[/#000000]
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[flygoddess]

[quote boetie84067]I know alot of these guys are keeping more than a limit as well. Just because you take a skunk home most of the time does not mean you can make up for it when the pickings are easy. Anyone who witnesses an illegal act should get a license plate # and turn them in.[/#000000][/quote]


To whom???? Sounds like they don't care.
Plus, with this many reports from different people CLAIMING they are witnessing the act of snagging, and we know they read this board if nothing else, isn't it THEIR job to go see for themselves.

And TD's post about him getting a ticket for not staying quiet? They can give tickets for that too?

Maybe I missed it, but why did they decide to open this area?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000FF]It's all about balance. The example has been used before about only being able to have so many cookies in a cookie jar. Same goes for fish biomass.

Willard Bay is a big sterile mud bowl...with rocks around the edges when the water levels are high. The only water/nutrients it receives is at the end of a long chain of other reservoirs and a lot of other fish before it dumps into Willard. A lot of the nutrients are filtered out before the fish in Willard get their shot.

Unlimited gizzard shad forage? Only half right. They also compete with the young of all other species by slurping up vast quantities of the zooplankton needed by walleyes and other fish to make it from egg to predator. So shad are actually in competition with the other species, even though they ultimately provide forage for the predators.

An example is the crappies. Before gizzard shad, crappies were the main forage base for walleyes and catfish...and other crappies. But because there were plenty of zooplankton for the baby crappies they flourished. Used to be full of crappies. Not any more. In fact, it is not unusual to find large numbers of starved baby crappies floating on the surface in early summer...after they have used up their yolk sacks and have not been able to find enough food to get them to the next level. Even the baby gizzard shad had big dieoffs this fall when the water cooled and the zooplankton numbers fell off.

My point? It is a continuous dance of numbers in Willard. When wiper numbers are up the walleye may not be...and vice versa. During the early part of the year...before the shad spawn...both walleye and wipers compete with catfish for invertebrates and that has decreased the number and size of catfish in Willard.

Willard is like many other lakes in Utah...subject to the whims of weather, snow runoff, etc. In good years it can be great. When the water levels drop it can be subject to a game of survival of the fittest.

Willard has always had walleyes but there have been big cycles when they were either more plentiful or bigger. Doesn't always go together.

Right now Willard probably has the greatest number of big healthy walleyes that I have seen in my four decades of fishing it. With the possible exception of a few years in the early 80's when the limit was 6 fish...with only 2 fish over 20 inches. There were days when it seemed impossible to catch a fish under 20 inches so we always left with a couple of 4 or 5 pounders...throwing back a bunch up to 8 or 10 pounds. They grew fast and big on the abundant crappies.

With the current bumper crop of walleyes in Willard a bit of thinning will not greatly impact walleye fishing...at least for this year. But if there is not a good spawn in other areas of the lake it could have an effect. When the water levels are low the fish do not spawn as well around the main lake. They need wave washed rocks for the best spawn. Just spewing their eggs over a silt bottom causes the eggs to die of suffocation or leaves them vulnerable to the carp and other egg eaters.

If there is a noticeable poor spawn and recruitment this year, DWR should be prepared to take whatever measures are necessary next year to reduce the carnage.
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[Fin-S-Fish]

That offense is interpretated as arguing with a peace officer. If you argue with them it's another charge coming for you unfortunately. There are many subtle laws like that.
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[PACKFAN]

If you think that they (DWR) may want to thin the eye population some by doing this, they could very easily have just raised the limit to 10, I think Willard is the only lake in the state with a limit of 6, which by the way I think is plenty. I'm wondering how some of your fellow Idaho walleye fishermen would feel if snagging was going on in their waters especially during the spawn?[crazy]
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[jeremypeace]

im sure they would all feel the same way, i dont condone to people snagging, just saying, i am certain they knew this would happen when they opened it.back up..
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[Hookinup]

[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000FF]There are some of us who are opposed to snagging, and opening up that inlet area to the wholesale snagging that goes on there. But the initial input from DWR officers is that they are not seeing the snagging and they label us concerned anglers as "purists". What does that tell you?

It is a discretionary call for the COs. If they witness a snagged fish being kept, they CAN write a ticket. They must witness it however. In times past I saw them give a guy a snagging ticket for a legally caught fish...just because it had a snag mark on it from someone else. When I spoke up in his defense I was told to stay out of it or I would get a ticket also.

The Utah Lake tributaries were closed and kept closed many years ago. And it was not so much to protect the walleyes as to reduce the illegal practices of snagging and overlimits. Neither Willard Bay nor Utah Lake is in any danger of losing its stock of walleyes because of angler harvest...legal or otherwise. But it is fundamentally wrong to open it up to the crowd that treats it as their own personal free fish market.
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Tube Dude, this is a shame that you would be threatened with arrest. IMO, there are several areas of the wildlife law that deal with COs that go too far. One of them is this vague law...

23-20-18. Interference with, intimidation or harassment of officer unlawful.
It is unlawful for any person to interfere with, intimidate or harass a conservation officer or special deputy in the lawful performance of his duty.

I don't think a witness should ever be threatened when they could corroborate of refute an act. This statute needs looked at again. Just my opinion.
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[flygoddess]

Maybe you are right Jeremy, maybe they did plan on this but the Internet played in big time here, you can read that. I wonder if they planned on that.
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[DKStroutfitter]

The inlet will remain open. This we know.
We need to help to put a bite on the snaggers.
Call the number on your fishing license if you witness someone illegally taking fish.
When the word gets out that the DWR is writing citations, it will slow them down. It won't stop it and we all know that. But every little bit helps.

The DWR is aware of the problem and the complaints.
They are doing what they can with their limited resources.
Give them a chance.
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[CoyoteSpinner]

From the good book:

[#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]Snagging [/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2]or [/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]gaffing [/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2]means to take a fish in a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily into its mouth. [/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]Take [/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2]means to hunt, pursue, harass, catch, capture, possess, angle, seine, trap or kill any protected wildlife; or attempt any of the aforementioned actions [/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2]

[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]
Only reference to 'foul hooking'

[#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]Bear Lake[/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2], Rich County [/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2]
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[ol][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][li]Anglers may keep foul-hooked Bonneville cisco that are taken through normal, legal fishing activities

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[/li][/ol][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2]Comes down to a matter of enforcement. Ask a ranger or fish-cop.[/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font][/size][/#211d1e][/font]
[font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][font "Myriad Pro Cond,Myriad Pro Cond"][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][#211d1e][size 2][inline dead-horse-ranch-map.gif]
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[TubeDude]

[quote flygoddess]Maybe you are right Jeremy, maybe they did plan on this but the Internet played in big time here, you can read that. I wonder if they planned on that.[/quote]

[cool][#0000FF]There are doubtless some anglers who are showing up down there after reading the reports. But I promise you that the vast majority of the happy harvesters are there because of their own "network" and not because of anything they saw online. I strongly suspect that most of them are not even plugged in to the WWW.

And the flip side is that a lot of us walleye huggers are deliberately avoiding the place...just BECAUSE of all the publicity. Myself, I enjoy fishing for the esthetics. Or, as I put it, I fish for enjoyment, not endurance. The stress of combat fishing and witnessing the illegal harvest of a favorite species would definitely put a damper on the enjoys.
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[kochanut]

whats with the map of the Verde in AZ?
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[flygoddess]

Right and I am with you as far as combat fishing, but I think more use the "net" than one thinks, specially with all the "net" phones. It happens all the time, and as mentioned in the past, this is a great forum for picking up news on fishing. Plus good ol' GOOGLE.
Just read a lot of, "I didn't know this" that turned into, "Got to go check this out"
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