Stop the snagfest

[Bassin_Blitz]

If you want to stop the madness everyone needs to contact those in charge and let them know just how bad the snagging problem really is. Tell them what you have witnessed with your own eyes.

Act now !!!!!!!!!

Drew Cushing head of warmwater fisheries

andrewcushing@utah.gov

Ben Nadolski Head fisheries biologist for the northern region.

bennadolski@utah.gov

Chris Penne northern region fisheries biologist (he manages willard I believe)

chrispenne@utah.gov
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[mike4cobra]

Email sent. Everyone complaining on here is doing so on a computer with email access. Dont complain to us..... do it to the people that count. [fishin]
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[WiperMac]

Did it this morning. Maybe a drop in the bucket but we're trying.

DWR if you're reading this close the inlet.
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[kochanut]

email number 3 from me sent and my wife fired one off as well. i dont even fish willard for wall eye there are better places, but illegal activities are still illegal
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[dowhatwecan]

Hello everyone.

I just wanted to take a minute or two to let folks know how/why this regulation was changed this year. I would like to also clarify a few misunderstandings as well.

The regulation was changed because our biologists who manage Willard Bay, have gone to great length and effort to understand the various fish populations (walleye and wipers included) indicated that walleye harvest is way down and the population is high. There have been egg survival studies that are specific to the willard inlet at the south marina. Due to the heavy sediment there walleye that do enter the south marina and spawn don't contribute to the walleye population in Willard Bay. The eggs just get covered with silt and die.

The DWR law enforcement wanted to NOT penalize all anglers for the illegal activities of some knuckle heads. They felt and still feel that they can curb the illegal behavior by having a consistent presence. From the sounds of of several of the posts here, the DWR enforcement folks are indeed out there daily.

The DWR advertised this as a potential regulation change in the news, we presented it at the RAC and Wildlife Board as well. Not one person........and I literally mean not one person spoke up, sent any email, or letters to the DWR opposing this. Although we had the biology behind us and the commitment from our Law Enforcement folks to enforce the laws we were wondering how the public would react to the potential change. The DWR felt comfortable with the change when no one opposed it.

My question to everyone is what constitutes an emergency here?

Is the emergency now, due to a lack of public involvement by anglers last fall? Because this is a social issue and not a biological issue we needed to hear from the anglers at the proper time and place to react to a social desire. We can't read your minds. We can measure fish and respond to law breakers but we need YOU to be involved appropriately.

This is very much like not voting and then being a chronic complainer about what initiatives passed and who was elected.


The reason the DWR supported this opening is to provide additional opportunities for anglers. Biologically this opening is/was a non-issue. That said, our job within the DWR is to also manage conflict. It looks like we failed here.....largely because we didn't hear from the anglers when it really mattered.

The DWR would very much appreciate your presence at the RAC's and Wildlife Board to address this and any other issues in the future. After all these are your fisheries....Our job is to understand the biology and manage your fisheries the best that we can. We need your feedback to understand the social side of our fisheries.


If anyone would like to call and discuss this further. Please call me at 801-230-6119. This is my cell number and I would be very happy to discuss this with anyone at any time.
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[Ahi1953]

Email sent to all 3 of them.
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[flygoddess]

Very nice you are answering concerns here, however, I did make several calls and e-mails last year on a different subject that was a legitimate concern, which was also brought up by another during a meeting, but it was swept under the rug when it came time for the regs.


My only question here is what about possession, is this an issue here? Is it snagging and over harvesting?
Thank you again for your time
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[dowhatwecan]

I'm curious Fly -Goddess. What was your issue? I might be able to provide some insight.
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[dubob]

[quote dowhatwecan]The regulation was changed because our biologists who manage Willard Bay, have gone to great length and effort to understand the various fish populations (walleye and wipers included) indicated that walleye harvest is way down and the population is high. There have been egg survival studies that are specific to the willard inlet at the south marina. Due to the heavy sediment there walleye that do enter the south marina and spawn don't contribute to the walleye population in Willard Bay. The eggs just get covered with silt and die.
The DWR law enforcement wanted to NOT penalize all anglers for the illegal activities of some knuckle heads. They felt and still feel that they can curb the illegal behavior by having a consistent presence. From the sounds of several of the posts here, the DWR enforcement folks are indeed out there daily.

The DWR advertised this as a potential regulation change in the news, we presented it at the RAC and Wildlife Board as well. Not one person........and I literally mean not one person spoke up, sent any email, or letters to the DWR opposing this.
The reason the DWR supported this opening is to provide additional opportunities for anglers. Biologically this opening is/was a non-issue.
Our job is to understand the biology and manage your fisheries the best that we can.[/quote]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]+1000! Thank you Drew. One of the few intelligent voices in the wilderness. I took the liberty of quoting some of what you wrote. I highlighted some key points.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]As to whether the inlet should be closed or open at this time of year, I could care less. Combat fishing has never been my style and I don’t plan to change at this point in my life. But I do have a major gripe over this issue and that is the seemingly inconsistent understanding of snagging and releasing snagged fish. According to the reports being posted here, it appears like a lot of folks being confronted out there by BFT members are of the opinion that you CAN keep a snagged fish if it was not intentionally snagged. It certainly DOES NOT say that in the Guidebook. But, then again, the Guidebook isn’t really that clear on the matter either.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]There are just 2 references to snagging in the Guidebook. There is a definition that states "Snagging or gaffing means to take a fish in a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily into its mouth." And then there is a statement that says "You may not take or land a fish by snagging or gaffing, and you may not have a gaff in your possession while fishing."[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Having written dozens of technical documents over my working career, I can tell you that the second statement could have been written better such that nobody could interpret it to mean that it is legal to keep a snagged fish if the snagging was unintentional. And just how are you going to remove a lure or hook from a snagged fish without ‘landing’ the fish? And just exactly what constitutes ‘landing’ a fish? That term is NOT defined in the proclamation, so it could just be the interpretation of a CO that you did, or did not, illegally ‘land’ a snagged fish.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I’m not at all about the issue. Based on the poorly written description of the issue in the Guidebook, I’m of the opinion that any and all snagged fish must be immediately released regardless of the intent to snag or not snag. But you might just want to have somebody in the DWR take another look at the wording used in the Guidebook.[/#800000][/font]
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[bigpapafish]

[quote kochanut]email number 3 from me sent and my wife fired one off as well. i dont even fish willard for wall eye there are better places, but illegal activities are still illegal[/quote]


So you haven't seen any illegal activity yourself? Just mad at the possibility of illegal activities? You don't even fish Willard for walleyes?

I am hearing mixed reports from people who have been there, "from every fish caught was snagged" to "haven't seen any snagging"! Why don't we just leave it up to law enforcement.

Why doesn't everyone just back away from the ledge and lets see what happens to the fishery and with law enforcement.
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[Bassin_Blitz]

The issue is the illegal harvest (snagging) if it were a fair chase situation I doubt anyone would have a problem with opening the inlet. The problem is snagging accounts for the majority of the fish caught in the inlet both intentionally and unintentionally. I remember the inlet was opened one other time the same thing happened (snagfest ) and they shut it right back down I don't remember the year late 80's or early 90's ?
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[albinotrout]

Thanks for the clarification.
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[Fin-S-Fish]

Fished it two evenings in a row just out of curiosity. Was there for 4hrs and saw only 2 or 3 fish caught in a large group of people, and they didn't look snagged. I'm sure the numerous officers saw the same thing. There's a few snaggers much as one of the agents said, but there's really not a huge amount fish being caught. And they are citing the few snaggers they found so I know for sure you guys are having excellent control over the situation. You should ignore this outrage and anger from the radicals on this forum and at large. I would delete my phone extension and put it on voicemail right away if I were you lol. It's nice of you to respond, but I don't think the people here represent the fishing public at large and you shouldn't base your regulation changes on hegemonic social voices that try to dominate and reify a specific discursive ideology. I think most people sensibly appreciate the opening of the inlet to have a chance at catching walleyes using legal methods. Keep up the good work! But yea, there really is much exaggeration.......I think for every one walleye caught......someone on the forum will say there's been 100 caught which is simply not true.
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[Gemcityslayer]

I think that the concern is that the DWR officials are not busting the snaggers.

They might be showing up and checking licenses, which I support. But they don't seem to be writing citations for snagging.
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[catmaster23]

+100, everybody needs to calm down, it's not like Willard is suddenly going to be void of any Walleye. I agree that snagging is wrong, but it's no different than King fishing, you put on your boilie and hope that when you set the hook that the lure is in their mouth, if it's not then you let it go. Everyone is acting like guys are in the inlet throwing dynamite. Everyone forgets that keeping some fish is actually good for a fishery now and then. This area has been closed for a long time and the studies have been done and it seems that it's time to thin out the herd for the betterment of the fishery. If you catch em the legal way, then good on ya, if not, accept your ticket. I say take advantage of a good time and the possibility of catching some nice fish for the fryer, or you can stay home and complain about it. It's no different than fishing for bass in the spring or browns in the fall, the fish are more aggressive and easier to catch, and isn't that why we go fishing, to catch fish?
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[Gemcityslayer]

The fact is, that snagging is illegal. We pay taxes so that the DWR and other agencies can enforce the laws. The laws are clear, and there should be no excuse for not enforcing them.

The problem with this whole issue, is that nobody is seeing the entire picture. And everyone is biased.

Is there snagging going on down there? Both accidentally and intentionally? Yes. Now your views on whether the place should be opened to fishing or not will definitely sway your opinion on how bad the snagging is or isn't.

I am 100% for keeping it open, this silly spawn will be over before we know it and the problem will be gone until next March. The walleyes will be fine. That is not the issue for me. The issue for me is, there are laws and there are people who are supposed to enforce them... it's really not complicated. Do your job, enforce the laws and the bottom line is everyone will be happy. Stop the snaggers. If you are a DWR official and you see intentional snagging and people keeping over their limit...you know what to do!
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[PACKFAN]

Not sure where you are getting your info about a majority of people on here not being walleye fisherman, I know a quite a few people on this thread that have spoke up and voiced their concerns over the snagging that is going on and they are indeed walleye fisherman including myself. Maybe the DWR needs to post on this site when they are going to have a RAC meeting that concerns something of this magnatude. I'm pretty sure we have alot of people who read this for the the fishing and hunting info and I would bet that more read this than a little article in the Salt Lake paper, which I don't get. I honestly cannot believe that there many true walleye fisherman at these RAC meetings that didn't say anything when this was presented. What's done is done and alot of us walleye fisherman will just have to grit our teeth and take it. [mad]
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[Fishrmn]

EVERYONE on this forum is online. EVERYONE on this forum has the opportunity and the ability to check the UDWR website as easily as they check this one. I guess they need to hold everyone's hand, and guide them to the RACs. Maybe they should weekly post a link to the RAC schedule. It is available on line after all. If it's important to you, get proactive about it. I'm sure that the people whose job it is to make those decisions have done their homework. Willard Bay will be fine. Probably better.
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[raghorn4]

I second that motion![cool] I've been trying to find out when the RAC meeting was and nobody has responded so far. Searched all over the DWR web site, nothing. RAC meetings have minutes and they are publish on the site. Would love to know the date so I can read or listen to it. Also search this site. This was news to me when gumbyk wrote a post he was catching walleye at the inlet. and I came back with last years regs.(my bad, again.) but in all those times of paying at the booth at the north marina(2012) they could have said something or had a slip of paper saying these are proposed changes for the lake.
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[not-a-purist]

Drew,

Thanks for the scientific evidence. This make a legitimate point of the minimal impact of the opening.

Also, thanks for pointing out that no one seemed to care until after the change. The change should have been noticed when the new reg booklets were put out, and not three or four months later. I always check the regs of every body of water I fish every year the new book comes out.

I would like to comment about your willingness to share information. I have emailed fisheries suggestions several times, and always got an explanation of why or why not my suggestions will or won't work.

If you don't mind me asking, if it is left open going forward, what are some of the proposed changes for the future?

I believe that the inlet could stay open if a small change in the regulations was made.

1- No fishing in the INLET after dark (30 min after official sunset). Period. that would solve the issue of not being able to see if a fish has been snagged. People seem to be more honest when they have spectating public around.

2- A 2 or maybe 3 fish limit of walleye from March 1st through April 20th or something in that range.

3- No fish over 20 or 22" ( saving the females)

I fished the inlet last night. I took my brother cause he has never caught a walleye before, so I figured this was a good opportunity and a short drive for him (not me). He legitimately caught his first ever walleye. He was stoked to say the least. Between three of us there was two legally caught fish. That is more than adequate for a meal.

I saw several fish caught and kept. As far as I could see, the snagged fish were released, at least when there was daylight.

I believe the problem lies in the individuals who go back again and again after they have filled their daily and possession limit. The 2 fish limit will keep them from legally over harvesting so easily. Three days of fishing to get what they can in a day may save a lot of fish. We were checked by CO's as we were walking out, and we passed them on our way in, so there is enforcement. I will say however, there were a lot of people that showed up after dark and their techniques were suspect...


Hopefully there can be a good resolution so everyone can enjoy the opportunity to catch some eyes.
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