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Fished UL yesterday from my boat. We tried the Knolls area for a little while and was alarmed at the number of illiterates that can't read the "No Trespassing" signs. Counted 15 vehicles & a couple camp trailers. I did what I figure to be the right thing to do and called the Sheriff's office. They didn't seem all that concerned!!!??? If we are ever to regain access to that area, we gotta get & keep it cleaned up. I would urge anyone on this board that fishes UL who sees people at the Knolls to call and report them.
Thanks
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[#0000FF]I have forwarded a copy of your report to Chris Crockett in the Springville DWR office. He is the one who has been working with the land owners in the area to get the Knolls reopened to public use.
As I told you on the phone yesterday, I know of law abiding non-fishing citizens who have received citations for merely driving down near the water to check conditions. It is maddening to hear of all those people who openly flaunt their violation of the posted signs...and especially the ones who also cross the posted fences to fish on property that has been restricted for years. I'm sure that the trash they leave and the damaged fences and other property they destroy will not help the DWR in their battle to regain OUR fishing access.
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I havent been to the Knolls all year but was thinking about it this weekend. Is the entire area closed or are you just talking about the private land on either side.
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Its all private and all closed. It was closed off due to all the trash, fences damaged, and animals shot.
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Has anyone considered that the people on the property had permission to be there?
They may have been family of the landowner having a family outing over labor day weekend at the lake or may have simply asked the land owner for permission to be there.
Posted to the general public still gives the landowner the right to give permission to use the land.
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Dude, I am a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. Some of the people I observed damn sure didn't have permission!
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Can you prove that? What makes you think they didn't have permission?
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I could see from my boat they didn't have permission. That is quite the magic act. Could you tell from there actions or by looking in your Tea Leaves.
Unless its some felony act I fail to see the need to become involved in what should be routine police or landowner responsibility.
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Nobody said you were stupid, geezer, possibly mistaken, but no one said you were stupid or implied you were stupid, so unwad your panties.
I see nothing wrong with calling someone to have it investigated, which Geezer did. If the people were tresspassing it could develop good will with the land owner to know that there are sportspeople that are looking out for the lasndowners interests.
It was mentioned that the police, whom were called, didn't seem to be to interested. Maybe that was because they had already been called and looked into it. Maybe they would have taken an interest if they were drinking and then drove away from the location. Maybe they waited out on the road for that, after having a look see with high power optics.
Point is that no one on this board KNOWS what was going on.
Maybe a call to the land owner would have been the way to go, get the strait scoop right from the source. Then let the land owner handle it as they saw fit.
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Yes sir, and if I would see somebody fishing beyond a no trespassing sign and pulling out huge brood stock musky I would say "self, I bet they have permission to go fishing there, and keep those huge musky, and I better not say anything cuz they may get their panties in a wad"
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[quote Troll]Has anyone considered that the people on the property had permission to be there?
They may have been family of the landowner having a family outing over labor day weekend at the lake or may have simply asked the land owner for permission to be there.
Posted to the general public still gives the landowner the right to give permission to use the land.[/quote]
[#0000FF]I am closely involved with the ongoing process to get the Knolls reopened. I can assure you that the landowners are not the kind to dispense individual pass permits for trespass. One of the major players is the LDS church and they were the main entity pushing the button to get all that area "yellow signed". Another is a land owner who grazes cattle in the area west of the historic fence line...that has always been heavily posted with no trespass signs. This landowner has endured countless incidents of having fences destroyed and cattle lost, wounded or killed by those who continue to trespass.
I have communicated with Chris Crockett of DWR about this most recent incident and he is looking into having DWR officers stop by more often to help out the sheriffs. Both departments are stretched thin...especially on holiday weekends. But he reassured me that there has been no relaxation of the ban on public access and it would be highly unlikely for any of the landowners to allow individual camping or fishing.
And, not to turn this into a racial or ethnic thing, but the vast majority of those being cited...or not cited...are non-English speaking folks who claim to be unable to read the signs...even when they are in their own language. They get along well enough to shop for camping supplies and food in local markets...and then leave the remnants behind. And they survive in an English-speaking environment well enough to buy vehicles and other necessities. But they often do not even have fishing licenses and are somehow unable to read or obey restrictive signs.
It has been suggested by the landowners that continued violations will result in having the entire area completely fenced off.
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[quote FishWisconsin]Yes sir, and if I would see somebody fishing beyond a no trespassing sign and pulling out huge brood stock musky I would say "self, I bet they have permission to go fishing there, and keep those huge musky, and I better not say anything cuz they may get their panties in a wad"[/quote]
Good for you.
That's not what happened here.
S.O.T.
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Thank you for your support Pat. I didn't respond to some of the asinine comments 'cause my tender sensibility got so inflamed that any reply would have been inappropriate.
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[#0000FF] Happy to see you maintaining your cool. Hard to do sometimes when those who like to "troll" keep asking "what if" questions...of those who have been closely involved with a situation for many years and who see the problem firsthand.
People who have not seen the degradation of the Knolls...by people who care nothing about ecology or conservation...simply can't understand the situation. Those of us who have fished it over the years, and who value the uniqueness of the area, are  dened to lose it just because of abuse by the trashers and the lawless.
You and I both come from families of rural land owners who endure losses every year because of a few reckless and/or destructive individuals. I have family in Idaho that lost several prize steers and horses to trespasser shootings...etc. It is hard to  and allow the public unlimited access to your property when it becomes so costly and frustrating. And if someone were to ask them for a special access pass...after they just lost thousands of dollars worth of livestock...what do you think the answer would be?
I'm glad you called the sheriff, even if there was no response. Too bad they are selective in their patrols and only cite otherwise law-abiding citizens who simply wander down the road to check water level conditions. Still...I guess that is better than totally ignoring the closures.
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I was going to point out that this past weekend was a holiday weekend and the local police and sheriffs are super busy dealing with all the other problems, and trespassers would be down the line. I would almost bet that at sometime, an officer was dispatched to check things out. You were gone when they got there, but I do know that the Co. Sheriff is pretty good about patrolling down there, as TD can attest !! I would go to Saratoga Springs City court in the next few days and sit in on the hearings, because that is where the citations are handled. You might be surprised at how many violators show up there !! And they usually don't just have one citation either, those guys will nail them for tresspassing, littering, open container, car registration and insurance, just about everything they can. They might not get em all, but they get their share. It has been a zoo down there for the past few years and it would be nice to see it cleaned up and reopened if possible. Go check out some of the sites on the south end of the lake and see what shape they are in. Not as bad as the Knolls, but almost. Access around the lake is getting less and less due to slobs littering and destroying property.
PS: Court can be very entertaining also !! It is open to the public.
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Geezer, You all got so wound up about the trespassing you forgot to tell us how the fishing was.[fishin]
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We caught some by Bird Island but the rest of the places we went sucked.
The reason I got my knickers in a knot is this. I almost always take trash bags with me when I fish from shore so that I can do a little to clean up after the human TRASH that litter. I've made several trips to the Knolls in the past solely to clean up. Completely filled the bed of my 3/4 ton pickup with bagged trash each time. A month or so later you couldn't even tell where I'd been. The transfer station at Springville let me unload for free but I paid $5.00 a trip at the Trans Jordan landfill.
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