Minnow Seines?

[SkunkedAgain]

Hey got a new catalog from Cabelas and it has minnow seines that are 4' X up to 30' long with floats on top and weights on bottom. Are these legal to catch minnows in Utah? I mean they look like Gill nets that they use in Alaska for Salmon other than the mesh is only a quarter inch. I'm thinking I might be able to find carp minnows with one of these if they are legal, but I'm sure you would catch lots of non target fish as well. But they should be easy to release. Anyone ever used these before are they easy to learn how to use? Thanks J
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[Fishrmn]

[quote SkunkedAgain]I'm thinking I might be able to find carp minnows with one of these if they are legal, but I'm sure you would catch lots of non target fish as well.[/quote]

Illegal in Utah.



To take nonprohibited nongame fish, you may use angling, traps, archery (excluding crossbows, unless otherwise authorized), dipnets, cast nets, liftnets, seines or a hand- held spear from above the surface of the water. When using these methods, please remember the following rules:
• [red]Seines (nets) may not exceed 10 feet in length or width.[/red]
• Cast nets may not exceed 10 feet in diameter (a five-foot radius).
• Nongame fish that are legal to take must either be released or killed immedi- ately after you remove them from the water. You may not leave them on the shoreline.


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[SkunkedAgain]

Thank you, that is great to get the quote. If I understand it correctly a 10'X4' seine would be legal for minnows or non game fish. Does anyone have experience using one? If so and you also have experience with a casting net, which works better, and is that situational? I need to find some carp minnows and they didn't school up last fall when I was looking for them, so I'd like to try finding some now if I could. Wondered if a seine might work in the shallow sloughs? Next question, do you fish a seine by two people pulling one end through the water going in parallel paths? If so do you wade or use boats, what works best? How do you keep the fish in the net as you pull it out of the water? Any good videos on the Internet? Sorry for all the basic questions its just new to me. Later J
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Seine nets are okay for working small ponds or shallow areas. But with a limit of 10' in Utah there are not many places they serve well. And it takes two people to work one right.

Cast nets are a better bet. You can use them by yourself almost anywhere. Just gotta be careful about what might be on the bottom or you get snagged up and lose an expensive net. Been that, done there.

Here's a little writeup I put together for folks who want to expand their minnow gathering horizons.
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[TubeDude]

[#FF0000]I need to find some carp minnows and they didn't school up last fall when I was looking for them, so I'd like to try finding some now if I could.

[#0000FF]Carp minners grow fast...and by now they have grew some (gruesome). Last year's spawn are over six inches and too large except for the biggest predators. But you can use them for chunks or strips.

Carp spawn again in late April into May. You start seeing schools of the young by late June...already over an inch long and growing fast. By October they can be up to 4 inches long...a good size for bait. But in a year when the spawn spreads out they can be anywhere from a couple of inches to 6 inches or more by late fall. Here is a pic of the size spread on some carp minnows I got at Grantsville Reservoir a few years ago...about the first week of November.

[inline "ALL SIZES.jpg"]

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[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks Pat, that's a great how to on the cast nets. It looks like I'm relearning your lesson. I bought a 3/8" mesh casting net last year and I cast it into a huge school of fatheads last fall and I could see tons of the minnows spilling out as I drew the net in. Ended up only catching a few, so I guess I'll try finding a 1/4" net too. Still need to learn a few of my usual dumb mistakes on the $35 net before I spend a lot on a nice net. Caught an old fence post the other day that could have really torn up the net but I got lucky and it was loose so it didn't tear the net.

Appreciate your carp info, I usually catch my minnows in October or November and they are 2.5 to 4" just the right size for the cats I like to fish for. Then last summer June or maybe early July I found some dead carp minnows just about the same size so I assumed they stayed small for awhile, I didn't think the new crop would have grown that fast. Now I know better. Well I guess I'll have to use fatheads this year, they aren't as good, but still catch some fish. I've been seeing 3" fatheads lately so I better catch a few for bait while they are still available.

Kind of sounds like the seines may not do me much good this time of year. Do you think they would be good to try in the areas the carp spawn in the summer? Does the carp fry grow up close to where the spawning takes place? Problem I see is the plant growth that time of year will make seining about impossible.

Well thank you for the information, its much appreciated. J
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[Springbuck]

Funny, a 10x4 seine wouldn't even hold a couple large-Ish carp. I think minnows are better, but If I'm cutting chunks, I might as well arrow a grown one.

Chubs or suckers, maybe? Both available pretty early in the year.
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[SkunkedAgain]

I haven't done very well with carp chunks so I typically don't use it much, but I have a real minnow weakness lately. I tend to be a believer in them. Since I caught my first fish on the minnow I don't use much else other than nightcrawlers. I know there are days when I should use something else, but that's usually when I get skunked because I'm too bullheaded to switch. Guess I ought to get a carp arrow and reel setup. I used to love shooting carp with the arrows, but it got pretty expensive with all the lost and bent arrows. I guess I wasn't good enough to make instant kill shots very often so the carp were rough on my arrows. Well good luck. Later J
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]After the carp spawn, the adults move back out into deeper water. When the fry hatch they stay in the shallow weedy areas for a short time...feeding on algae on small invertebrates. They form schools in water clear enough to see each other and maintain contact. Otherwise they scatter and while they may be sorta numerous in certain areas you usually won't catch many on a throw with a cast net. But they will gather in a properly baited minnow trap.

When I go a-minnowing, I set two to four minnow traps in different spots...and at different depths. The ones that produce minnows let me know how deep I have to work with the cast net...if there are enough to make it worthwhile. In murky water it is always guesswork with a cast net. Much better when you can see a school of minnows and throw the net over them.

My experience has been that fathead minnows will work okay...in waters where there are fathead minnows in the food chain. But they produce a unique odor that seems to repel fish in other waters, where there are chubs or shiners. In side by side comparison fishing tests I always do better with chubs.

Chubs are closely related to carp and the young have a similar scent. So both chubs and small carp work well on most waters...especially where there are carp but maybe not so many chubs.

If you are not using carp you are probably missing out on some good catfish. There are a lot of ways of fishing carp meat. Some guys just catch a carp on the waters they are going to fish and then cut out pieces as they fish...leaving the rest for the local ecology to clean up.

I have experimented with a lot of different ways to use carp meat. I used to shoot a few early in the year, scale and fillet them...skin on...and then freeze about half a fillet in a plastic bag with a bit of water...and all the air squeezed out. This reduces freezer burn...which fish do not like. After thawing the chunks for bait, I would cut pieces to size and put the hook through the skin. The skin really does help hold the carp meat on the hook...too well. It is tough to get off the hook if you have a barb on the hook.

In recent years I take a couple of extra steps and they make life easier and fishing better. I use a good electric fillet knife to cut off the fillets from the carp, just like filleting any other fish. Then I SKIN the fillets. That cuts way down on the mess of scales all over the place. If you are careful there will be few scales to pick up individually. I then slice out the rib cage...leaving a nice bloody piece of carp fillet. Oh yeah, don't rinse the fillets while you are preparing them. The more flavor you leave the better.

The final pre-freezing step is to cut the whole fillet in to either 4 big chunks or about 10-12 narrow strips...as in the pic below.

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I prefer the narrow strips. When fishing I have the option of fishing a whole strip...or cutting them in half. Whenever fish are "pop and drop"...without taking the bait down well enough for a hookset...I rig a smaller piece of bait. Yeah, I get some white bass and bullheads on smaller pieces, but I have also caught some of my biggest cats on a 2" strip of carp meat.

Carp meat is firm enough that you really don't need the skin on it. Use a hook just large enough to run through the thick end of the meat...with the hook point barely protruding. Don't stack the bait on the hook or you will have trouble setting the hook through all that tough carp meat.

If you like to soak bait below a bobber, a small chunk of carp meat on a sharp hook jig head can be killer. It really spreads a lot of scent into the surrounding water and calls in the kitties. And they seem to hit it harder than some baits. You can fish it a ways off the bottom since cats will often rise off the bottom to find it.
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[SkunkedAgain]

Thank you for some great tips, so if the carp aren't schooling the minnow traps work best to locate where to try the nets. Sounds like great advice. I think the skinned carp might make it easier to fish. I just haven't had much luck fishing with it. I'll have to try it again and see if my luck improves. Later J
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]There are probably an equal number of folks who say they don't do well with carp meat and those who do. Usually the difference is in how they prepare and fish it. My observation is that fresher is better than old stinky stuff. I fillet my carp as fresh as possible and flash freeze it to preserve as much freshness as possible. I only partially thaw it before using to keep it cold. And I keep the pieces in a small insulated container (soup sized Thermos)...especially on warm days.

Channel cats in Utah seem to be a lot more oriented towards eating live or freshly dead fish flesh. Sure, you can always catch a few on "ripe" goodies, but over the course of several years catfishing I have done a lot better with cleaner and fresher baits.

In the deep, dark, muddy waters of the midwest and the south the catfish forage a lot more by smell. Using prepared stink baits works a lot better in those conditions than in clearer waters where cats can also hunt by sight...with scent being the final factor in whether or not they bite. I catch a lot of cats every year on jigs and crankbaits being fished for other species. They have good eyesight and will hit flies and lures a lot more than most folks would believe. I have caught them on topwater in Willard, when they were up chasing shad with the wipers.

Sometime about Mayish we gotta meet up on Willard for a wiper/walleye/kitty session. Might also find a school or two of crappies. May is magic.
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[SkunkedAgain]

That Willard session sounds like fun. I will look forward to that. I do like May, seems like the fish are hungry and more willing to look past the little mistakes I still make. Are you thinking tube and toons or I could bring the boat whichever you prefer?

I would enjoy fishing with you and trying to catch my first wiper. I've caught most of the other species in Willard except the wiper, but for some reason my path has yet to cross with them. Anyway that could be fun and I'll try to keep a spot open. Thanks again for some great tips. Later j
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]As we get closer to a meetup we can formulate a plan by PM. Every year seems to evolve differently. So depending upon water conditions and fishing reports we can decide the particulars.

By mid May we can be optimistic about removing wipers from your (fish) bucket list.
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[SkunkedAgain]

Sounds good will watch and be ready. Later J
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