Frame vs. Frameless 'toon

[Fergy]

I've had a pontoon with a frame for the last 10 years and am in the market for a new one. I've seen a lot of talk about frameless ones. What are the advantages of the frameless? I float mostly rivers, won't be doing any back packing, and space in my vehicle is not an issue. I like having the open space between the pontoons with no floor so I can put my feet down to stop or stand up to hold me in place. Does the closed end on the frameless cause extra drag in the water? I would also think that there is not as much strength and support for the oar locks on the frameless especially when you are leaning hard on the oars. From someone who has used both, what do you like better about frameless?
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[flygoddess]

[quote Fergy]I've had a pontoon with a frame for the last 10 years and am in the market for a new one. I've seen a lot of talk about frameless ones. What are the advantages of the frameless?


Advantages are, they sit a little lower although you still sit out of the water, they are more secure / stable because that are not held onto a frame with straps, lighter, quicker set up



I float mostly rivers, won't be doing any back packing, and space in my vehicle is not an issue. I like having the open space between the pontoons with no floor so I can put my feet down to stop or stand up to hold me in place. Does the closed end on the frameless cause extra drag in the water?
This will be a yes/no depending on the boat. Watermaster which is a flat bottom with a foot print of the whole tube is more drag, North Fork Outdoors Assault series, no, they are rockered at both ends so the foot print is the same as a pontoon

I would also think that there is not as much strength and support for the oar locks on the frameless especially when you are leaning hard on the oars.
Definitely can be an issue. The oar pins have broke before and no not as strong as Horse Shoe style. Generally an easy fix.

From someone who has used both, what do you like better about frameless?[/quote]

I have three frameless and one framed. I like the portability and quick set-up not to mention lack of weight on the frameless. Another issue is the pontoon on each side or the U (uni) shape. On my duel pontoon, when wind picked up, I found the pontoon wanted to seriously turn, doesn't happen on the Uni shape.
I Have had a pontoon work loose on the frame and a lot of instability, can't happen with a Uni.
To address this further, although I own the Assault and the XX, and do like them a lot, I do like the open front end as I fly fish and prefer to keep the tip of the rod in the water. The U shape boats also offer the foot bar so you are able to stand up on the river without the boat taking off.


Hope this helped.
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[Fergy]

If there is a foot bar that goes between the pontoons, do you have to step over it to get out? Can you adjust it for different sized people?
I also use a regular seat from my bass boat for additional comfort. What kind of seating options do you have on the boats you have?

"I Have had a pontoon work loose on the frame and a lot of instability, can't happen with a Uni. "

In 10 years of using the framed style, I have never had any issues of instability or ever had a pontoon work loose.

How do you secure your rods while moving? The frame on mine provides a good place to rest my extra rods. The metal frame also is a secure place to mount the trolling motor. Don't you have to pay extra for a trolling motor mount on the frameless? I'd also think the additional mount would not hold the motor as securely as one attached to the frame.
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[Tarponjim]

I had a couple of standard framed ones for 15 years or so. I liked them a lot. Then, I bought a Renegade a few years back and really, really liked it. When I saw the Assault, I had to try one. That was a couple seasons ago now, and I LOVE it! Its so light, rows like a sports car, anchors easily*, fits in the back of the pickup with little/no deflation, and still has plenty of room and stability for an all day float on any river I want. I have not had any problems with the oars and oar locks. In fact, the oar-locks are the most convenient I've ever had. I've never had to "really lean into" the oars because the boat is so responsive. Half of the time, I just use my wrists! Leaning on 'em is actually using my arms and shoulders! I'm using the standard (small) oars on the Assault. I used longer oars on the Renegade.

The Assault also easy to just stand up in over shallow water. It stays put, and straight. The bags that come with it are most convenient, roomy, and serve as rod holders for me. (I carry one or two rods, that's it.)

I've rowed all three sections of the Green, as well as the bigger rivers of WY and MT with it, and had no problems, even on the Green at 4,000 cfs. The MO at 6500. The Clark Fork and South Fork at way over 12,000. Box Canyon. . . .

If I had nothing today, and were going out to buy a toon, I'd buy another Assault with no hesitation.

*The only advantage I miss from the framed model is a stronger anchor bracket that was frame-mounted. I'm using the strap-on Scotty anchor bracket with the Assault, and used it with the Renegade, and I've broken the brackets that hold the strap a couple times. I also have to regularly re-adjust the anchor bracket for it to be int he optimal position on the rivers. I don't fish still water at all, just the rivers and larger streams. I just carry a spare in the truck. No big deal, really.

If you can, try one of the frameless boats. And, to be fair, I've heard great things about the Water Master out of Montana. They even offered me a free test-float when I came to Missoula that year. But, I compared the two side by side, in person at a show, before I bought my Renegade. No regrets. Ask Scadden for a test ride. All he can do is say "no," or "sure!"

Just to add, I don't use a trolling motor, carry a battery, or any extraneous stuff. Fishing gear (Fly), rain gear, small cooler, camera. Stepping in and out of the closed boat requires you to step over the pontoons, but I'm old and bent, and its still not difficult at all.
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[flygoddess]

I can only answer for the North Fork Outdoors as I have never tried the clones

[quote Fergy]If there is a foot bar that goes between the pontoons, do you have to step over it to get out? Can you adjust it for different sized people?
On the NFO, you step over or just pull one side up and open like a door. The bar is not adjustable, the seat is. I have 36" inseam and have my seat back all the way, very comfortable.

I also use a regular seat from my bass boat for additional comfort. What kind of seating options do you have on the boats you have?

The combination of the cloth seat filled with Memory foam and the inflation level of the seat area, they are very adjustable. I also have the molded padded plastic seat on my frame, I personally like both equal, many prefer the cloth seat. NFO does have a small partial frame that you can mount a hard seat on and then strap it to the frameless. Again, I like them both equal.

[#ff0000]"I Have had a pontoon work loose on the frame and a lot of instability, can't happen with a Uni. " [/#ff0000]

In 10 years of using the framed style, I have never had any issues of instability or ever had a pontoon work loose.
In the 20 years of using a dual pontoon, it has happened once, meaning it can happen. Buckle malfunction, or strap stretch.

How do you secure your rods while moving? The frame on mine provides a good place to rest my extra rods.
The fact there is no opening from the seat on back, either lay the rods down next to the seat or the side bags have pockets on the side designed to hold rods.


The metal frame also is a secure place to mount the trolling motor. Don't you have to pay extra for a trolling motor mount on the frameless? I'd also think the additional mount would not hold the motor as securely as one attached to the frame.[/quote]

Yes, the motor mount is optional as not everyone wants one. You could use one of the decks like on the framed NFO, or go with the frameless motor mount. As you pointed out, if the pontoons are strapped securely, they don't come undone, same with this motor mount. Best to mount while boat is soft, then tighten and finish inflating. I can carry my boat by the motor mount. As far as the D rings, never been a report of them ripping off. I tow mine on the roof of the truck by the D rings and I imagine the wind force is far greater than the torque of a motor.


FG
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[BigEZ]

Reading this thread I got all excited and determined I need an Assault XX.

Then I saw the price. Ouch. Rich man's game.
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[flygoddess]

So are ATVs[] Nothing wrong with the best when $ permits,[]

Waitin for better weather, but it is getting tougher to wait.

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[atvaholic]

Awww when did you get the Fuzion, FG...I almost bought one..
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[flygoddess]

Yesterday.....wohooo!
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[kandersonSLC]

Congrats on your new Fuzion. Can't wait to hear what you think of it.
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[flygoddess]

ME TOO!... Next weekend is suppose to look like spring again, fingers crossed.
Cool thing, we are getting some thin plywood tomorrow. Cut it to fit on top, then I can try different stuff like where to place my rod holder.
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[kandersonSLC]

Post some photos if you get a chance. Next weekend is promising.
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