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[quote PBH][quote CBR]I can call B.S. as well because I am entitled to my own uneducated opinion.
 [/quote]
exactly. Another word for it would be ignorant. You didn't know the full situation. You only knew what you saw on the surface, but failed to understand the facts behind what was really happening under the water. Smallmouth were losing to the shiners -- thank goodness the DWR could see this. Their interests went much further than the end of their rod. We have a quality fishery that is thriving because of those efforts.
As for EC -- I don't know much about it. What are the crappie and smallmouth currently eating? Are there chubs in EC? Do the crappie reproduce? What is their population like? Maybe it's the crappie that are out-competing the smallies, and thus the crappie need to be thinned? Have you spoken to any biologists in charge of EC to get their side of the story?
The great thing with wipers -- as has been pointed out previously by others -- is that they don't reproduce. If they cause problems, the solution is[url][/url] a very simple one: stop stocking.
This is really a very silly discussion, to be honest.[/quote]
There is one ignorant person here and it isn't CBR !
So I will say it again pbh go troll for your trout and leave us alone!!!
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[quote CBR]Wow PBH, you really need to learn how to respond to people... ...calling me uneducated and ignorant.
I'm done unless you want to treat people with the same respect you think you deserve.[/quote]
Wait a minute. Do you know the definition of ignorant? I'll help you: lacking knowledge or awareness.
So, when you stated that wipers hurt the smallmouth fishery in New Castle, I called you ignorant. That's an accurate statement, and should not warrant anyone being offended. That's the problem with today's world -- people are looking for any excuse they can find to be offended.
You made some very uneducated comments concerning New Castle. You were dead wrong -- the smallmouth fishery was NOT negatively affected by wipers. The opposite is true -- the smallmouth population has been rescued by the stocking of wipers.
If that is offensive to you, and if that means your discussion is finished, I'm sorry. I cannot help you.
If you want to continue with a discussion of EC, I asked some very good questions that i am interested in learning. But, if that is too offensive to you, then I guess I'll go ask the DWR and find out their side. you know, that education thing....
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Well pbh you are worng the wipers did hurt the smallmouth fishery in New castle I fish that lake three time a week all the wipers I caught in the last month all had 2to 3 smallmouth in ther stomach and about 10 to 20 crawdad and that is why there no more big smallmouth in New castle wipers eat everything all crawdad will be gone out there do not forget guy pbh work for the dwr
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[quote utahduckhunter]Well pbh you are worng the wipers did hurt the smallmouth fishery in New castle I fish that lake three time a week all the wipers I caught in the last month all had 2to 3 smallmouth in ther stomach and about 10 to 20 crawdad and that is why there no more big smallmouth in New castle wipers eat everything all crawdad will be gone out there do not forget guy pbh work for the dwr[/quote]
so many things wrong with this post.
I fish newcastle frequently as well. I know the wipers are eating crayfish, and very well may be eating smallmouth as well -- but it isn't negatively affecting the smallmouth population. Just because you aren't catching big smallies (like we were before wiper introduction -- but remember, there were no young-of-the-year back then, so the population was dying), doesn't mean they aren't there. Wiper stocking has been drastically cut back (because of the lack of shiners) -- so, the DWR is working on assuring that wipers do not hurt smallmouth in the future. But, wipers positively affected the smallies at Newcastle. That cannot be disputed. We have young-of-the-year in Newcastle now.
you fish that place 3 days a week? Why?! if it's so bad, and the smallmouth are gone, and the wipers are evil, why are you wasting your time at Newcastle? You have other options close by. Hmmmmmmm......
finally -- I have never, nor will I ever work for the DWR. You must have me  with someone else. (I'm a computer guy that has worked in the private industry my entire career). Sorry. Again, ignorance is thriving in BFT land!
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I talked to the biologist at East canyon and I guess there are very few chubs in EC but they are there. Here are the facts, they are only stocking 7,200 wiper that are 2" in length and they think of those 7,200 wipers, only 30 to 40% will survive. There are an over abundance of crawdads and small SM that will benefit from being thinned out. I guess when the SM get to a certain size in EC they bottle neck and few grow to that next bigger size. The fishery will benefit from the SM being thinned out and after two year they will decide if they are going to keep planting wipers. I know some of you that are concerned about the SM fishery in Utah, think that change is not good but I'm sure you would agree that at times, it can be a good thing. It seems with such a small number of wipers being stocked, it will not kill all the SM in EC and after two years if it doesn't help, all the DWR will need to do is quit stocking them.
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wh2 -- that post......actually.....made sense!
amazing. I guess the sky is not falling.
Here's to a successful wiper campaign. Cheers.
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[quote Flyfishinglover]That lake is good how it sits. Well there goes the closest bass lake that I know really well.[/quote]
Um, someone help me out here, all these complaints about ruining a "bass lake" - call me ingernt, but aren't Wipers BASS?! They're actually TWO Bass in one, and they are sterile. So if the experiment goes bad, it's not a permanent fixture. Can't say that about smallies. They're inclined to recruit.
And PBH - I know you're full of your strong opinions, but really - can you try coming across more of a debater and less on the ridicule. I could call someone a dumb-ass (ala Red Foreman[mad]), but most folks don't house their brains in their posterior - so accurate, ya?, yet it's still considered derogatory.
So is calling someone ignorant. Yes - you quote the "definition", look at the other contexts.
Just not necessary, more likely to read your strong opinion if it didn't come across quite so ripe.
CBH- maybe need to turn the other cheek! [blush]
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Let's try for some healing powers, no? Ya?
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Its like I have said all along about Drew and his dwr spoiling the better bass lakes..
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[font "Times New Roman"]My first post in quite a few years, and I agree with 100% with wiperhunter2. While work has really slowed my enjoying the sport, East Canyon has remained my favorite pond. I also believe the planting will have a positive benefit. And as WH2 said, in two years the data will support future planting or not.[/font]
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Haha! In before the lock!
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I'm glad someone talked to the DWR. There is always a reason behind what the DWR does. Not always is it to give an angler a fish to catch. In this case it is to control the smallie population and the side effect is a great fish to catch.[cool]
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[quote CoyoteSpinner]
Um, someone help me out here, all these complaints about ruining a "bass lake" - call me ingernt, but aren't Wipers BASS?! They're actually TWO Bass in one, and they are sterile.
[/quote]
If you want to get nit picky, stripers and white bass are actually "true" bass, and the smallmouth are sunfish, so if it went south, it would actually be ruining a sunfish fishery, and creating a bass fishery [:p]
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Finally the voice of reason.
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Good post DuBob !! One more thing that needs to be considered is the impact that the Crayfish have on the fishery. A good example is Newcastle in So. Utah. They had a great rainbow fishery down there as the bows were feeding on the young of the year crayfish. In a couple of low water years and draining the lake for repairs to the dam, the crayfish got a super head start on the bows and when they were restocked, their growth was almost nil as the crayfish were to big and out competed the smaller fish for the available food, ie zooplankton. Crayfish are very efficient at filtering the water for zooplankton and will impact them negatively. Newcastle has had two introductions to control both the shiners and the crayfish, SMB and Wipers.
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I'm not sure who I should reply to. I just wanted to chime in about the crayfish population. Dubob has a good point there. All a person needs to do is wade into the lake with bare feet, and stand still for a few minutes. Soon you will feel lots of crayfish nibbling on your toes. It seems like hundreds and kind of unnerving. I think there is plenty of crawdads to be eaten by all the fish in the lake.
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This is excellent news!
Will Deer Creek be next to have some small SMB thinned out finally?
I love how Willard is producing limits of eyes, hard hitting wipers, and 13" perch to boot.
The great thing about DC is you can have all that is mentioned above AND keep the slimers in there! It's a win-win for everybody.
C'mon DWR, follow through at DC!!!!!!
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Now don't go and get my hopes up. [  ]
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Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
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[quote SBennett]This is excellent news!
Will Deer Creek be next to have some small SMB thinned out finally?
I love how Willard is producing limits of eyes, hard hitting wipers, and 13" perch to boot.
The great thing about DC is you can have all that is mentioned above AND keep the slimers in there! It's a win-win for everybody.
C'mon DWR, follow through at DC!!!!!![/quote]
An interesting idea to say the least.
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[quote SBennett]This is excellent news!
Will Deer Creek be next to have some small SMB thinned out finally?
I love how Willard is producing limits of eyes, hard hitting wipers, and 13" perch to boot.
The great thing about DC is you can have all that is mentioned above AND keep the slimers in there! It's a win-win for everybody.
C'mon DWR, follow through at DC!!!!!![/quote]
[#0000FF]DC is probably not a good place for wipers. Not enough to eat for the perch and bass in there already. Heck, even the illegally planted white bass couldn't make a living there.
That really used to be a good perch lake before the smallies ate all the crawdads...and then the perch.
And the trout they plant these days are too big for the wipers. Otherwise, they would dine well.
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They put 85,000 Wipers in Minersville over the 2011 & 2012 summers. .37 inches to 1.90 inches.
They have started to bite pretty good this year. 10 to 15 inchers fat and healthy.
The Small Mouth bite on the bigger Small Mouth has been good this spring. Quite a few 3# plus SM.
The Rainbows did not make much of a showing at ice off but have hit pretty good for the late spring. Biggest I have seen this year was 27 inches. Most seem fat and fiesty.
A very few Cutts, but the ones I have seen were fat and healthy,, not snakes like the last several years.
Of the 40,000 Brown Trout planted over the last five years I have yet to see one.
From what I can see there are still a lot of Crawdads.
There is also plenty of Chubs.
Midge hatches have been fair.
IMO so far Wipers have not hurt Minersville SM or Trout,, but it might be to soon to tell.
Also IMO the Wiper survival in Minersville since being stocked could not be anywhere near 30 to 40 percent.
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