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[quote TubeDude][#0000FF][b]
I caught about a 5 pound walleye near the mouth of the Provo river a couple of years ago that had 4 freshly munched Junies in its tummy...each about 4 inches long. And I have heard similar tales from others...and from walleyes taken in different spots around the lake.[/quote]
I don't doubt that freshly stocked june suckers get munched by predators, but I do question whether you can distinguish the difference between a june sucker and a utah sucker...especially after a fish has consumed it.
Based on everything I have learned about june suckers, differentiating them from utah suckers is extremely difficult and highly subjective. In fact, there has been much debate about this as far as the june sucker recovery program goes. Even the experts are wrong sometimes in distinguishing and identifying them....
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[#0000FF]It was a natural "assumption", based upon published notice of the releases. Entirely possible some Utah suckers could be running downstream at the same time. The stomach contents were still fairly fresh and identifiable as suckers...rather than crappies, bullheads or whatever. But I confess to being unable to distinguish between species at that size and on that occasion.
Nor did I care. All part of the walleye feeding program.
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http://thefisheriesblog.blogspot.com/201...ssons.html
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/La...520269.php
https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Regions/2/Lake-Davis
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/us/12pike.html?_r=0
If'n ya don't think they'll get serious about removing Northern Pike from Utah Lake you might want to see what happened at Davis Lake in California. It was a thirteen year battle. Millions of dollars spent that could've been used for other projects.
They're not going to let the Northerns thrive. There will be money spent to eradicate them. Might as well do our part and spend the money elsewhere.
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[#0000FF]There is always that sword hanging over Utah Lake, since the feds are involved.
Howsomever, I was somewhat tapped in to the Davis Lake thing in California. Used to fish it a lot when I lived in Sacramento...and followed the situation with interest. The pike problem there was similar to the 11 Mile Res. situation in Colorado. Started out as a trout only pond and once pike were illegally introduced they ran rampant...chowing down on the resident slimers.
As the saga unfolded at Davis, the first eradication program was successful...only until some other bucket bozos dumped some more pike in. And again.
Got my doubts that there will ever be a complete wipeout of Utah Lake. First of all, prohibitively expensive...even if they could find enough rotenone. Secondly, it would have to be perfect timing to get the Junies upstream and out of the lake during the "margarita dump". And any Junies still in the lake, including juvenile non-spawners, would all perish. Perish the thought. Also, as it has been suggested before, the best case rotenone job would still leave specimens of all species unscathed to repopulate. Lots of tributaries, marshes and other hidey holes where all but the most intense poisoning would leave some survivors.
I have no doubt that the increase in pike numbers has caught the attention of the sucker-huggers. And I also have no doubt that there will be plenty of bucks allocated to keep them in check...if not to entirely eradicate them. Good luck with that.
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It sounds like as long as the pike don't really thrive in UL, then they probably won't make a huge difference in the June Sucker population anyway. Or at least their impact won't be as big as that of the walleyes. The DWR can spend as much money eradicating them as they want, and I'm totally fine with that. I just feel like there might be bigger fish to fry. My vote is still to start with the carp 
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[#0000FF]Me too.
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Got to put my 2shillings in on this. Back in the day, when DWR stocked walleye ( Yes children, they did. They would trap the adults moving up the Provo, collect the eggs and milt, fertilize the eggs, hatch the fry at Springville in the old building on the East side of the road, and stock them in Utah Lake. Knowing when to stock was easy, the fry would form a Daisy chain with one little eye holding on to the tail of another till the whole jar was one long chain, everyone holding on to someone else. ). The fry were stocked in the lower Provo and the White Bass and bigger Walleye would have a feast. Same problem,
Enter the June Sucker and everything changed. Things remained static for 10-15 years while DWR and the feds worked out a plan. Now that plan is in place and it has been about 8-10 years since is was implemented.
I know a lot of people that would like Utah Lake left alone, but until the ESA is repealed and voided, if we want any UL fishing, we need to support it the best we can and help the program along, otherwise it becomes Federal and Utah loses control. WE do not want that.
By the way, I attended the presentation from Ut. State on the food web and crashing the Carp population. Both presentations were expertly done, well documented, and highly informative. There is good science behind what is going on out there, not so sure about good economics however.
So bite your collective  s out there, hold your noses, and cooperate with the plan, because the alternative REALLY SUCKS, STINKS, and BITES the BIG ONE !!! Bitch and moan all you want, but remember, what the feds have in store is worse than your worst nightmare regarding taxes, immigration, federal lands, etc, all rolled into one huge pile of bovine scatology !!
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I joined this site and thought I would be able to share my thoughts and respond to others with the same thoughts or negative thoughts on how I feel! I read a response from someone that had kinda the same feelings as I (sent through my email). I was at work and didn't have a chance to respond. found out it was deleted!!!!! GUESS YOUR FORUM is for only the people that agree with YOU!
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Here's a better one than Davis Lake. Let's look at the Colorado Pike Minnow, formerly know as the Squaw Fish. Name changed for a variety of reasons, some PC, others to confuse the following issue.
for those of you from the Pacific Northwest, what is the bane of all young Salmon moving up and down stream, to and from the ocean. No, children it is not the evil hydroelectric dams that man have built for the production of that evil thing, electricity or flood control, or water storage, nope, it is the Squaw Fish ( not sure what they call it up in the NW now). The Squaw Fish consumes little smolts like my grand kids consume Air Heads, as many a possible, as fast as possible. So they came up with a nifty plan to pay you a bounty on the ol Squaw fish. Been going on for over a decade, some guys make $300-$500 a day on the bounty.
Now move a bit east to the drainage of the mighty Colorado, where low and behold the Colorado Squaw Fish lives, now know as the Colorado Pike minnow. Don't believe anyone can tell the difference between the Squaw Fish in the NW and the Pike Minnow in the Colorado. Have never seen any genetic testing that says they are different in any way. So what do we do in the Colorado River drainage. We spend millions in trying to "recover" the endangered Colorado Pike minnow while spending millions to eradicate the Columbia river Squaw fish.
So, let's all try and help the June Sucker in any way we can so that we can still fish UL and not have it turned into a Junie only water !!!!
PS: We can also remove all those evil dams on the Columbia and other rivers in the North West because their removal will not impact the economy of the region at all. Quote from the Ast. Director of USFWS, to me face to face 20 years ago. Quite a stunning statement. I am sure all the industry and agriculture concerns up there would agree !!
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I caught a couple of those Columbia River squaw fish before. Them things gots teeth. Caught them on a nymph fly fishing.
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[quote chaddyboxers]I joined this site and thought I would be able to share my thoughts and respond to others with the same thoughts or negative thoughts on how I feel! I read a response from someone that had kinda the same feelings as I (sent through my email). I was at work and didn't have a chance to respond. found out it was deleted!!!!! GUESS YOUR FORUM is for only the people that agree with YOU![/quote]
[#0000FF]If you read the rules and guidelines you will see that we do not forbid contrarian opinions. But we do edit or delete blatant attacks on individuals or organizations (DWR). It's okay to disagree as long as you are civil about it.
The post that was deleted was from a member who has had numerous problems in the past with his pathological hatred for DWR and for attacking anyone who disagrees with him on any issue. He is the cause of the most locked threads and the most heated (one-sided) debates on the board. His spelling and grammar are also the cause of the most frustration to those who try to read his posts.
It was not just a single post issue. There's a lot of history there.
And, for what it is worth, I was not the one who deleted the post. In my former role of moderator I probably would have.
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understood[cool]
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I saw KSL had a story about this and wondered if anyone is actually catching these pike? Northerns are probably my favorite species to fish for being a midwestern transplant, but I do respect and understand the issues of having a predator like this in a water it doesnt belong in. Id be happy to do my part if there are enough of them to target down there
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[#0000FF]Yes, there are a few pike being caught. But not in enough numbers (so far) to constitute an "explosion" in population. However, any pike is enough to set off a panic attack when there is an aggressive June Sucker Recovery Program in place.
As has been mentioned, northern pike were introduced experimentally by DWR many years ago. Since they never showed up much after that it was widely believed that Utah Lake was somehow not suitable habitat. But since the recent increase in numbers being caught and reported it has created a lot of concern that they might actually act like pike and carve (chew) out a bigger place for themselves in the Utah Lake ecosystem.
There are more and more sightings and reported catches...from more and more different places around Utah Lake...and up into the tributaries. Who knows how many are now in the system and how much larger the population will grow? That is why DWR is taking an aggressive stance at studying them and determining how serious their problem might be.
The local media has done a good job of helping DWR get the word out on pike...and their potential for adversely affecting the sucker recovery program. Are there enough pike to make it worthwhile to pursue them? Possibly. If you work all the harbors and protected areas...especially if there is cover or structure...you have a reasonable shot at finding and catching a few. If you rig right, with the right lures and line, you will catch and net more than if you use flimsy tackle.
I am betting we learn a lot more about them both as angling targets and as predators on the Junies over the next year or so.
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As we all Know the huge pike problem at Utah lake is only due to the June sucker Epiphany. Catch and kill wow!! Same thing at Yuba 20 fish limit might as well be catch and kill., and what treasured endangered species were they threatening at Yuba? The next toothy critter to see the spotlight will be the Walleye, killer that it is. The DWR is simply an agency that responds to whatever federal slush fund is available to spend your money.
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[#0000FF]Still scratching my head and wondering about the "management" of Yuba my own self. First the lake is taken down to wet mud. Then it is refilled as a carp pond. Trout are planted but the perch eat up all the fathead minnows that were growing big trout. The remaining trout mostly ended up as pike poop.
After the trout were gone and the pike were in abundance...and the walleyes and perch were going the way of the trout...the pike switched their diet to feed heavily on the overabundant carp. But instead of rewarding the pike they had a price put on their toothy heads. Kill 'em all. Get rid of those carp killers.
WHAT THE FISH?
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[quote TubeDude][#0000FF] Still scratching my head and wondering about the "management" of Yuba my own self. First the lake is taken down to wet mud. Then it is refilled as a carp pond. Trout are planted but the perch eat up all the fathead minnows that were growing big trout. The remaining trout mostly ended up as pike poop.
After the trout were gone and the pike were in abundance...and the walleyes and perch were going the way of the trout...the pike switched their diet to feed heavily on the overabundant carp. But instead of rewarding the pike they had a price put on their toothy heads. Kill 'em all. Get rid of those carp killers.
WHAT THE FISH?
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and the succubus utah angler gladly obliged. Trophy pike fishery? Lets hurry down there and kill them all! and now all those people are disappointed the fishing is so slow. and I don't understand planting a bunch of perch with no water,, I'm sure they'll do just fine! [  ]
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