Willard Snagging

[PACKFAN]

Looks like PBS is back[cool]
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[wiperhunter2]

[quote MikeHall]Fishing during the spawn will not allow for a healthy resource and in no way promotes conservation or healthy fish populations.. Most Certainly it is unsportsmanlike like and is as unfair a method as snagging or looking the other way as a participant or enforcement officer when our conservation laws are broken .. Of course you can look the other way, complain about poor quality and most certainly justify you opinion at the expense of our public resource ...[/quote]

Wow, thats a broad statement, I hope you are talking about just walleye but even with it just being walleye, I disagree with it. "Unsportsmanlike like and is as unfair a method as snagging", again, Wow that is a whopper there. It seems to me I have seen you fishing for crappie, do you also believe that it is unsportsmanlike and unhealthy for the resource to catch them during the spawn? If the DWR though it unhealthy for the resource, I really doubt they would allow it. After all, aren't a lot of them biologist, that have years and years of training, not only in school but also on the job. Of course I'm just voicing my opinion here, like you are but it would be nice to hear some facts about this subject, as to whether or not it is good or bad for the resource to catch eyes during the spawn.
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[MikeHall]

You would think that your interested you would check the validly of my statement instead of issuing a unfounded syber disclaimer.. The facts speak for them selves... Walleye fishing has been in decline at Willard since the 1970s with the state refusing to address the problems associated with fishing during the spawn.. making no effort inwardly or out right to develop walleye fishing ending in a slaughter of resources and open lawlessness... If you had not noticed they are still snagging and keeping more than the entitled limit even during the summer season... Although I have seen recent development to increase the expense and size of fisheries and government.. I was instrumental in attaining funding from Pure Fishing to plant wiper as an alturnitive fishery at Willard thus increasing walleye stocks ... Not to say wipers which you are vested in are altogether bad but the program has increased government size at the expense & quality of three very viable game fish.. This was done thru emphasis on wiper management ... Further the Willard bay facility paid for with public taxes has no recreation pool to keep enough water for public use... Mark this you will see the dewatering of Willard for industry within the next few years... Fish can not live out of water by the way and cooperate profit cannot be put to public use... Further the factors of mercury and other pollutants are not addressed by the state of Utah ... I personally am not willing to submit to utopian and disinformation about managing public resources or property when you are not willing to look at them stated otherwise.. Politics do not protect our out of doors ... Ethical & Concerened Sportsman do .... If you still doubt this let me leave you with this ....
I TOLD YOU SO
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[wiperhunter2]

Here is the proof:
http://www.walleyecentral.com/articles/?a=5
As far as the walleye in Willard declining, I'll have to again disagree. While it is true that the walleye in Willard have suffered by the introduction of Wipers, I would not say they have declined, maybe taken a back seat to the Wipers[]. Not sure how often you fish Willard but I'm out there a lot, 40 to 50 days a year in the last five years and during that time I can say that walleye catching is the best it has ever been at the Bay. At least as far as numbers go. Back in the 70's when I moved to Utah, I remember catching bigger average eyes but never consistently, in the numbers we are seeing today. Again This is what I've observed since the 70's but it is my opinion, just as what you state is your opinion or do you have some facts to back up what you are saying about walleye at Willard being on the decline.
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[HD7000]

Mike-
Scroll up and read what I said earlier. Since the 1970's there have been vast improvements in the managing of our waters. Willard is one of the premier "put and take" waters in the state. While you may remember a few big ones you caught 40 years ago, I guarantee there is a much larger and healthier population now. The DWR isn't concerned about the tributary being fished because the natural born spawn account for such a small percent of fish in the lake. Yeah, I strongly disagree with people breaking the laws by snagging, but I'm sure not going to blame a slow day of fishing on it's insignificant impact on the fish population at Willard!

Oh, and before Willard was built, there were no walleye. They were introduced just like the wiper. And I don't see there being efforts anytime soon to dewater the bay after just adding another 4 feet to the dike...
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[gmwahl]

You seem to be out of sorts with the way Willard Bay fishing is going. I personally have fished there since the early 80's and I never used to catch he fish like I do now. Everybody can't be satisfied I guess, but Willard Bay seems to be a very healthy balance of many species that aren't in most waters of our state, so I thing the DWR is doing just fine and I will trust them when it comes to fishing the inlet.
It more of a personal emotional thing for most people on here, some like it and some do not, but it has biologist backing and they know what they are trying to accomplish in that lake and are invested in striking a balance between all species and at the same time providing an opportunity to enjoy catching those fish to as many different groups of anglers as possible...including shore fisherman.

Mike
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[wiperhunter2]

You know, that is the biggest issue right there, shore anglers. Most of the year they can't go out where the eyes are, so to say they can't fish in a certain part of the lake, just because the eyes are spawning is just plain wrong. It would be no different than them telling a boat angler, he can't fish near the shore during that same time of the year. And now that they a managing Willard more toward anglers catching eyes, it just does not make sense to close part of the lake, IMO.
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[MR.PIKE]

I have to laugh. ..... here we go again, more wasted tears for Willard. I personally don't agree with this snagging dilemma but the DWR doesn't care so it's very hard for me to.
Too bad I don't live closer I'd be filling up on walleye filets myself. For you see, Utah is an opportunity state. When the opportunity arises you must take advantage of it for tomorrow the opportunity will be gone. And believe me, chances are it will be gone.
You would think the division would be out there in force due to their mastery of managing the dollar, and their H.Q. is just a hop, skip, and a jump down the road. Makes no sense to me.
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[gmwahl]

Exactly wiperhunter.
Another thing to consider is how many fish are we losing there to people that don't have a fishing license or are keeping more than their limits? I'd would be willing to bet that the number of walleyes kept that have been illegally snagged pale in comparison to the amount poached out on boats and kept in the live well until they get home. We don't see that in plain sight so we don't worry about it, but we DO see a bunch of guys having fun at the baffles and just assume that they are all "happy harvesters" and pilfering our precious walleyes. Only a small handful are breaking the law and again, probably a lot less than those out on boats where they can't be seen as easily.

As long as they are obeying the law let's allow the shore fisherman a decent shot once in a while to catch the walleyes. I'm sure far more are kept along the rocky shorelines during the spawn than are being kept at the inlet, and even if not, those that are caught along the rocky shoreline ARE able to successfully spawn and therefor theoretically should be impacting the population, yet the walleyes are still in there in decent numbers. The walleyes in the inlet don't really contribute to the recruitment.

As long as we just have fun and obey the law at Willard Bay and keep an eye out for those that are breaking the law there should be no problems.

And what's next for those so opposed to fishing the walleye spawn....no fishing for the crappies during their spawn?

Mike
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[Gemcityslayer]

I never really understood the fuss about keeping fish during "the spawn" in any situation honestly. But I do understand people being sour about people keeping fish over their limits or snagging fish illegally.

If you keep a fish in July you are keeping it from spawning in March just like you would be if you caught and kept one a week before it dropped a single egg or sperm.

And I also get tired of the "release the big hens" they are the most important fish to the system... often older larger fish don't produce as many viable eggs as smaller younger fish. And if you keep a smaller younger fish you are removing maybe 3-4 plus years of spawning? Whereas if you kept a big older fish it might not even get the chance to spawn again before it dies of old age?

If you want to keep or let go any fish that is fine but don't try to rationalize it in some way to make you feel better or more moral about it. Just follow the rules/laws and do as you wish other than that.

Just some thoughts.
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[WiperMac]

[quote wiperhunter2]You know, that is the biggest issue right there, shore anglers. Most of the year they can't go out where the eyes are, so to say they can't fish in a certain part of the lake, just because the eyes are spawning is just plain wrong. It would be no different than them telling a boat angler, he can't fish near the shore during that same time of the year. And now that they a managing Willard more toward anglers catching eyes, it just does not make sense to close part of the lake, IMO.[/quote]

I say nay to all but one thing. You are correct that shore anglers don't have the ability to access walleye most of the year. But even without the inlet they still have the ability to go out and fish the rocks. To me it was never about the biology and anymore it's not even so much about the ethics. It's about Fair Chase for fair game. The fish are not piled up like cordwood along the miles and miles of rocks like they are the inlet.

With that being said I'm going to go pick up my partner and go fishing[fishon]
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[AllFish]

[quote WiperMac][quote wiperhunter2]You know, that is the biggest issue right there, shore anglers. Most of the year they can't go out where the eyes are, so to say they can't fish in a certain part of the lake, just because the eyes are spawning is just plain wrong. It would be no different than them telling a boat angler, he can't fish near the shore during that same time of the year. And now that they a managing Willard more toward anglers catching eyes, it just does not make sense to close part of the lake, IMO.[/quote]

I say nay to all but one thing. You are correct that shore Anglers don't have the ability to access walleye most of the year. But even without the inlet they still have the ability to go out and fish the rocks. To me it was never about the biology and anymore it's not even so much about the ethics. It's about Fair Chase for fair game. The fish are not piled up like cordwood along the miles and miles rocks like they are the inlet.

With that being said I'm going to go pick up my partner and go fishing[fishon][/quote]


Well said, solid position and where I am coming from.

Just don't believe they should be reeled in by a dorsal fin or tail and clipped on a stringer.

FWIW
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Y'know, after all this cyber-rhetoric, I just gotta weigh in on one more point. There seems to be a double standard on the subject of walleye protection in Utah.

In Willard...where this fish has to compete with wipers for food and space in the ecosystem...they are largely unprotected during the spawn.

In Utah Lake...where walleyes are the top predator and maintain huge numbers...there are closures on all potential spawning tributaries.

Hmmmm?
[/#0000FF]
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[wormandbobber]

[quote Dog-lover]For someone who personally doesn’t care if the Willard inlet is open or not, and for someone who doesn’t specifically target Walleye you seem to imply that people who did care and actively participated in the RACK process should have simply known better.[/quote]

What I am implying/saying is that just because you spoke your mind, does NOT mean that the WB or RACs should have catered to your desires. Their job is to listen to all input and make a decision. Some fishermen/hunters believe that the RACs and WB should automatically do what people suggest and that if they don't listen and do what is contrary to what was proposed that they are not being "listened" to. That is BS! Again, their job is to listen to all available input and make a decision...many times the input given contradicts and competes, so they have to piss somebody off. This time it was just those who wanted the inlet closed...
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[wormandbobber]

[quote TubeDude][#0000FF]Y'know, after all this cyber-rhetoric, I just gotta weigh in on one more point. There seems to be a double standard on the subject of walleye protection in Utah.

In Willard...where this fish has to compete with wipers for food and space in the ecosystem...they are largely unprotected during the spawn.

In Utah Lake...where walleyes are the top predator and maintain huge numbers...there are closures on all potential spawning tributaries.

Hmmmm?
[/#0000FF][/quote]

Why are those closures in place? Does it have anything to do with the success or lack of success of spawning fish? Are we comparing similar situations? OR apples to oranges?

The truth is that the only fisheries that have seasonal closures to protect spawning fish are those where such protection is vital to maintain the fishery or to maintain the fish...

....there are virtually hundreds of fisheries that don't have seasonal closures--trout more than any other species--where fish stack up and spawn and are super susceptible to snagging. The inlet was opened up because protecting fish that unsuccessfully spawn wasn't warranted.
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[wormandbobber]

[quote MikeHall]Fishing during the spawn will not allow for a healthy resource and in no way promotes conservation or healthy fish populations.. Most Certainly it is unsportsman like and is as unfair a method as snagging or looking the other way as a participant or enforcement officer when our conservation laws are broken .. Of course you can look the other way, complain about poor quality and most certainly justify you opinion at the expense of our public resource ...[/quote]

Nothing like a blanket statement that is nowhere near the truth....

....I can think of several fisheries where fishing is allowed during the spawn and where fisheries are not only healthy but thriving. I named a few above already for you. In fact, I could name some fisheries where a lot of fishing occurs during the spawn and where too dang many fish are living and where a little more fishing and not releasing should occur.
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[wormandbobber]

[quote PACKFAN]And I've never pulled in a wet sock so I wouldn't know what that feels like[:p][/quote]

You have caught walleye haven't you? If so, you know what a wet sock feels like...
...of course, some wet socks probably fight even better!
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[wiperhunter2]

[quote AllFish]

Just don't believe they should be reeled in by a dorsal fin or tail and clipped on a stringer.

FWIW[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, I'm against snagging as well but if shore anglers choose to fish the inlet, thats fine by me. Then again, if the DWR decides they are going to close the inlet, sometime in the future, if does not effect me either. I was just saying it just gives shore anglers a chance to catch them, that they did not have in the past. In the two times I went out to the inlet, in the first year it was open, I caught zero eyes but when fishing for them at the same time of the year, from the rocks, I always caught them. That tells me there are far more eyes spawning in the rock along the dike, than there ever are, in the inlet.
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[Sirfilletalot]

Trevor,

You hit the nail on the head!

Hope to see you on the lake soon...
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[gmwahl]

That's exactly what I said! I've had MANY sinfully easy nights fishing for walleyes on the rocky dikes so I can't imagine the inlet being any better. I've only fished the inlet a few times and only one of those times did I catch any....two of them and the fin caught one went happily back!

Mike
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