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DWR Wiper and TM Stocking Input
#1
[#0000FF]We have had some discussion about the rationale in stocking wipers in Jordanelle...and apparently a lot of other waters as well. I addressed inquiries to Chris Crockett in the Springville DWR office and to Chris Penne in Salt Lake. Here is the informational response from Chris Penne. Thanks again Chris.[/#0000FF]

I believe Chris Crockett may be out in the field right now, so he may take a bit to chime in. I can't comment directly on Jordanelle, but I'm happy to share some insight on the increased use of wipers over the past few years by DWR. Several things have come together to make this happen. First and probably most importantly, the more we use wipers in western reservoirs the more adaptable we are finding them to be. One problem we have with a lot of reservoirs is that they lack a good littoral zone to grow forage fish or even provide nursery habitat for sport fish. These reservoirs are steep sided, generally experience severe water level fluctuations and historically about the only thing we could get to thrive in them have been trout and smallmouth bass. Trout do well since we can stock them at a size which they big enough not to need that nursery habitat and then they can go and feed in open water on zooplankton. Smallmouth have done "well" since they can make a living on the boulders and rocky habitat that is plentiful at most waters. The smallmouth have done well in terms of population numbers, but they may not be very desirable to anglers at the moment in several of these waters as they are overabundant and slow growing. These reservoirs also sometimes have black crappie and yellow perch, which can do well in certain years, but are obviously prone to boom and bust cycles which seem to be strongly influenced by water levels, making them difficult to manage since we have no control over the water.

This brings me to wipers. We are seeing that wipers can also exploit the open water of the reservoir very early on in their life and grow quickly. From what we can tell through our program at East Canyon Reservoir, the young wipers have been feeding in the open water during the summer on zooplankton, effectively exploiting an unoccupied niche and unused food resources. This is because the trout are down deep where there is cooler water and enough oxygen during the summer months and the smallmouth and other fish are generally tied close to the shoreline. This is something not many other species are able to do, so we are getting to provide a new fishery in these instances and use previously unused food resources to do it. Speaking of East Canyon, the wipers are actually doing quite well in there. We've been running a creel survey at the reservoir this summer and there have been a lot of wipers caught this summer. The larger ones are now over 14 inches long and growing fast. Most fish are being caught in the east arm in shallow water. Rather then them not doing well, its just taken a few years for them to grow to a size at which they are vulnerable to angling. In addition, I think it just takes a while for people to figure out how to catch them. One other point too and this is probably the most important one, is that we are not stocking wipers in waters like East Canyon as a flagship species like we do at Willard. We are stocking much lower densities with the dual purpose of providing an additional angling opportunity and taking advantage of extra food resources (in the case of EC, crayfish and zooplankton), and I suppose a third purpose is maybe getting an assist with smallmouth bass management. There isn't any formal research that has been conducted on the relationship between smallmouth bass and wipers, but the two species appear to coexist well in our waters in southern Utah.

I saw that someone mentioned our supply of wipers. Well, we've done a very good job in Utah of working on our supply over the past few years and it shows. We've been able to meet our stocking needs at Willard Bay for several years now and it is clearly showing in the fishing. In fact, I think we've pushed the stocking of wipers at Willard as far as we are comfortable and you've heard me mention before that I'm looking to let our population go down a bit to make sure that we don't exceed our carrying capacity and end up with a bunch of skinny wipers. In addition to meeting Willard's needs we've also been able to stock wipers in several other waters around the state and even start putting them in community waters as well. I feel I should say, we're not looking to stock wipers everywhere and take away the uniqueness of this species. Instead we are finding that wipers do well in many waters where other species don't, that they can exploit currently unused resources, and that they provide another species for anglers to catch, and in some cases they help clean house on overabundant species like chubs, shiners, and perhaps even smallmouth bass. Time will tell on the last one.

Another area where I might be able to provide some perspective would be the muskies. Our experience with tiger muskie in the north is that they are pretty good about not eating themselves out of house and home. In all these years with them in waters like Pineview, its clear they are not eating enough fish to control our numbers of crappie and perch. Minnesota actually did a very good study a few years ago looking at 40 waters where they had stocked muskellunge where they previously hadn't been present and investigated whether or not the muskie had any significant impact on the panfish population (perch, crappie, bluegill, etc.). They could not find that muskie had any impact on both the size or numbers of these fish. They speculated it seems reasonable that panfish like perch, crappie, and bluegill evolved with muskie as a predator and are therefore able to cope with their presence by way of reproduction (producing lots of young) and growing fast. On top of that, the number of muskie stocked in Jordanelle was also lower than what we stock in Pineview on a numbers per acre basis, so I wouldn't think they would be pushing the envelope on food resources this early in the game, even with the addition of wipers.

There are admittedly some unknowns when stocking these new species in these systems, but as someone pointed out the beauty of these sterile sport fish is that we have control over their numbers and can adjust stocking as needed if we have overstocked or understocked on fish.

Hopefully my response answered more questions than it raised. As always, happy to chime in.

Chris Penne
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#2
Tube dude- Thanks for posting the response.

I saw that Chris said that he couldn't speak to specifics about Jordanelle, but what I got out of that is:

1- The Wipers are expected to live off zooplankton then crawfish.
2- Tiger Muskies don't eat much and are a non issue.
3- Both species are steril so any negative affects on the fishery can be undone by letting the existing fish die out.
4- Since no remarks were made about establishing forage fish....The plan to establish forage fish is.... There is no plan to establish forage fish....err um cough, stay tuned to find out what our plan is for forage fish.
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#3
Pat,
Thanks for passing that info along. Interesting information.
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#4
Good info. Thanks for sharing.
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#5
Thanks Pat and Chris. I suppose time will tell as far as Jordanelle and the wipers. I'll be watching and probably wetting a hook or two.
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#6
Thanks for posting this and thanks, Chris for the explanation. Things make a lot more sense now.

It will be interesting to follow this over the next few years.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the "terrible" fishing up there [Wink] as this year was the best year there for me in the last 5 for quality fish and I have high hopes for next season if we get decent water.


One other comment regarding wipers. If they can do as described and utilize forage that other species cannot, then lets get some of those in Scofield, so we have something in there to catch besides chubs and emaciated trout, especially if the answer to treating it remains "NO".
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#7
That was very interesting and informative, thanks to both Pat and Chris.

One question for Chris, I was under the impression that Kokanee were being used to exploit that open water niche that you were talking about. I am glad that you are using the wipers also.

I was introduced to Wipers while attending school in Oklahoma. Most of the lakes around Oklahoma City were stocked with Wipers and they provided some great fishing. Most of those lakes did not allow boats, so you had to fish from shore. They were very susceptible to live bait ( shad), which was legal in Ok.

Thanks again for the info !!
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#8
I am replying to TubeDude's post, but I guess this would be an open question to anyone with educated responses.

How do wipers fare when stocked in a water with carp? Do the carp grow too fast to remain a viable food source for the wipers? What about bullheads?
Also, how dependent on water clarity are wipers?
Any opinions on whether we might expect to see them in Cutler any time?
I would love to have some further north than Willard if it's feasible. If they can eat enough carp, water clarity might even improve a little.
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#9
Isn't Cutler a fairly shallow body of water?

It seems like they have talked about the shallowness of Willard being a limiting factor in the size of the wipers there.
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#10
[quote gaardvark]I am replying to TubeDude's post, but I guess this would be an open question to anyone with educated responses.

How do wipers fare when stocked in a water with carp? Do the carp grow too fast to remain a viable food source for the wipers? What about bullheads?
Also, how dependent on water clarity are wipers?
Any opinions on whether we might expect to see them in Cutler any time?
I would love to have some further north than Willard if it's feasible. If they can eat enough carp, water clarity might even improve a little.[/quote]

[#0000FF]Wipers in Willard eat lots of small carp...especially since they reach edible size sooner than the shad. They also eat baby catfish. In short, they anything they can wolf down when they are hungry. But, like shad, young carp grow quickly and are too big for most predators by late fall.

Wipers can survive and prosper in murky water. But they do better when the water is clear enough for them to employ their more efficient sight feeding tactics. And they school up better when they can see each other. But when the water is cold and murky they almost become like catfish...following their noses and using their lateral lines to find edibles.

Sorry, can't answer your question about northern Utah waters...specifically Cutler. I suspect they could make a living there. The decision will be made by DWR as they have sufficient stock to try some there.
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#11
[quote Chris Crockett]Angler interest does not trump sound management but it does encourage us to explore management actions that fulfill both criteria.

As with any management action there may be conflicting opinions and no doubt some valid criticism. I would just encourage everyone to remember we are all trying to manage a dynamic system with many challenges (water temp, water level, illegally introduced species) using our best understanding of current conditions and what we have in our toolbox.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Chris C,[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Thank you, I couldn't agree more.[/#800000][/font] [Smile]
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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 82 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
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#12
Is there any talk about putting any Shad in Jordanelle ??
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#13
[#0000FF]Nothing on the published management plan. But highly unlikely. Threadfin shad will not survive the cold winters. Gizzard shad are a bit hardier but would be direct competition for trout and kokanee...since they also feed on zooplankton.

They didn't want gizzard shad in Powell either. But they got there somehow. Better than the quagga mussels and they help the stripers grow bigger.

I'm afraid Jordanelle will never again be the lake you so fondly remember. Looks like smallmouths will now just be one of many species...and far fewer of them at that.
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#14
Your right, thats why I have only fished Jordanelle two times this hole year and have cut back my fishing in this state..
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