Utah Lake Algae Study !!

[Therapist]

Yesterday, the Deseret News ran an article expressing worry that $750,000 dollars for a study by the U of U on why the algae bloom occurred this past summer. This is addition to the $1,000,000 that the state of Utah is spending for the same reason.

I posted a response on the article, but the DNews declined to print it because I was being "mean". I thought it appropriate to post it here as it is a boondoggal, spending money that does not need to be spent !!

The state is spending $1,000,000 on the problem and now a prof at the U wants another $750,000 to DUPLICATE what the state is doing, how wonderful. How about they cut me a check for $250,000 and save the $1.5 mil, because I can tell you why there was a bloom at Utah Lake and Scofield, LOW water !! Scofield is a bit of a different problem, but Utah Lake is due to extremely low water and phosphate loading. Add high water temps due to an extreme hot spell in July rather than mid August, and voila, major algae bloom. This is not rocket science folks, just common sense. What is the cure ?? Large amounts of snow during the winter to provide sufficient water to the lake during the summer !! I would bet that if you went back into the past record, you would find that when these blooms occur, it is during low water years, with extreme summer heat. The phosphate loading is a major contributor, but not the primary problem, it is low water and heat .

Where is my $250,000 for solving the problem ??? When H..l freezes over !!

[MSM1970]

You used two thing that don't go together very often,
common sense and government[]
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[Fin-S-Fish]

The algae bloom has underlying nuances that go a bit further than mere reduction of the chemical complexity to phosphorous. State agencies rarely have the intellectual deepness of a true academic phd who sets out to do research. A phd ferrets out nuances and depth that a casual researcher might fail to unravel. It likely bears further investigation. I already have my own theory and it goes well beyond mere phosphorous or nitrogen excess. The phrag control chemical works in a way that specifically feeds and promotes this particular type of deadly blue green algae. This isn't an ordinary green algae bloom, it is much more specific. I'm advocating for eliminating the use of chemical herbicides on waterbodies anywhere. We don't need synthetic poisons disrupting natural processes in our water. There was a huge plankton kill at UL 3 or 4 years ago and I attribute it to the herbicide. I'm sure if a study was conducted there would be good empirical evidence for it.
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[Therapist]

Interesting theory, however, Utah Lake has had similar algae blooms long before Phragmites came on the scene. They have always occured during drought years with extreme July, early Aug temps. The nutrient loading in Utah lake has been a problem since the drought in the 30's when the lake was virtually pumped dry. When it refilled, two boards were added to the dam on the Jordan that raised the lake level 18". That increase in lake level, indunated what is now called Mud Lake or Provo Bay. Provo Bay was where Provo & Springville dumped their treated/untreated sewage. That, along with the increased use of chemical fertilizer in the agriculture around the lake, plus the growth in other cities around the lake that also began dumping sewage into the lake all resulted in the increased nutrient level of the lake. In the 40 plus years that I have been in Utah Valley, I have seen at least 6 such events as what happened last summer. All were during low water years, extremely hot mid summer temps. So, while the chemicals used to "control" phragmites may contribute to the problem, we have enough things in place to cause the blooms already !!!

Everyone knows what BS is, MS is more of the same, and PhD is piled higher and deeper !! I have both a BS and a MS for what it is worth !!

[Fowl-Hook]

Institutions and the private sector are lined up to take public money to study anything and everything. Study's come and go much like the money we spend on them, but nothing seems to get better based on any study.
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[dtayboyz]

Need to find a way to harvest the algae and have the gubermint pay for it. You could Pelletize it and sell it with network marketing as a diet aid. With urban sprawl there will be blooms everywhere.
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[Stickleback]

Need to find a way to harvest the algae and have the gubermint pay for it. You could Pelletize it and sell it with network marketing as a diet aid. With urban sprawl there will be blooms everywhere.

Just like the giardia natural weight loss program. My wife joined in 1985 after a camping trip in The Canadian Rockies. She lost 20 pounds in just 10 days.
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[Therapist]

Very tough way to lose weight. I can think of more pleasant ways !! Not to belabor the point, but spending 1.75 million dollars to study this is not smart. IF the money has to be spent, spend it on water treatment to remove phosphates in sewage discharge water. Agriculture runoff is by far the biggest contributor, so look at way to control the amount of phosphorus leaching off of farms. That may be done by the decrease in farming around Ut. Lake as the land is used to build homes. We don't need to spend money on the causes and we know what the solutions are !!!

[Bovineowner]

As a person who makes his living off of agriculture, I take offense at your statement, " Agriculture runoff is by far the biggest contributor, so look at way to control the amount of phosphorus leaching off of farms." Those cities that surround Utah Lake have tens of thousands of LAWNS and PARKS! How much nitrogen and Phosphorus leaches into the storm drains and gutters and runs into Utah Lake from each and every lawn? The majority of farmers don't throw fertilizer around like candy. Mostly because it's dang expensive. But also because all crops are different and require very specific nutrients to thrive. We do soil studies and take samples and use custom mixes to benefit the topsoil. We add micro-biotics to further breakdown organic matter and aid in water retention. But keep throwing agriculture under the wheels of your fairytale if it helps you sleep better! Without some data to back up your story, you paint a lot of fine people with a pretty dang big brush!
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]I too take exception to your statement about agriculture being the primary contributor to increased quantities of phosphorus etc. In the meeting held at the Utah Lake State Park facilities at the Provo Harbor last summer it was shown that the main culprit is poorly treated wastewater (sewage). It was further pointed out that of about 7 wastewater discharge sites around Utah Lake, only one was even coming close to the "allowable" levels of phosphorus in the "treated" discharge. And it was stated that all sewage treatment facilities had the ability to implement equipment and procedures to greatly reduce phosphorus output but that it would be costly and take several years to do so.

No, replacing agriculture with homes and businesses only increases the problem...not reduces it.
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[Boisan]

Several sources of phosphates other than agricultural runoff contribute to elevated phosphate concentrations in UL. Like TubeDude said, poorly treated residential and industrial wastewater can be a big contributor. Commercial farmers and your average homeowner both face fines for improperly applying fertilizer to crops/lawns. However, much more is at stake to do so for the farmer operator than the homeowner. Additionally, I would wager that your average homeowner is much more likely to apply fertilizers improperly than a farmer and use excessive amounts of water to achieve a green lawn. For these, and many other reasons, I would disagree with the opinion that developing agricultural land for residential use would be beneficial to the overall health of UL.
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[Therapist]

To Bovineowner and TD, I did not mean to impune agriculture, just trying to lay out some of the facts regarding phosphate loading. To Bovineowner, my hat is off to you and other's involved in agriculture, you make a living in a very tough way, between all the regulations you have to deal with, the restrictions on what you can and cannot use in pursuit of your living, low prices for your product and high prices for feed and fuel, and the encroachment of development on your operations. TD's memory is much better than mine as I did not recall the info he cited from the meeting last summer. I was using information from a class many years ago regarding environmental issues in regards to wildlife. I would also agree with TD that the primary problem is the lack of treatment of waste water being discharged into Utah Lake. It is also my understanding that the technology exists to remove most of the phosphates from discharge water, but the mandate does not go into effect for several more years and most of the cities are not doing it till they are mandated to.

As to converting agricultural land to homes as a solution, a a a a what part of " the main problem is phosphate loading in sewage discharge" don't we understand !! Besides, I really enjoy a good steak with a green salad and you need land to raise it all. Nope, we need to get our water treatment plants to remove the phosphates now rather than later, other wise we will continue to have similar problems in the future.

TD can kick my dorsal posterior next time he sees me !!

[TubeDude]

"TD can kick my dorsal posterior next time he sees me !!"

[#0000FF]Not gonna happen. First of all, friends don't kick friends...and we have been friends a LOOOOOONG time. Second, I did not take your comments as assigning blame primarily to agriculture. Third, even though I am taller than you I probably couldn't kick that high. It's tough to grow old but considering the alternative I'll live with it.[/#0000FF]
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