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I think this is a perfect topic for the general discussion board.
When a bass fisherman catches a bass he slips his thumb in its mouth and throws it back in the water w/o injuring the fish. When it comes to trout why isnt this practice common? Does it hurt the trouts mouth. Or is it the teeth that will get you. Trout have a protective slime that protects the from parasites and helps with hydrodynamics. Cradling these fish removes that slime. Bass caught dont seem to be over handled at all but many trout do.
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Ha ha... now you know why I don't fish for trout. It just isn't any fun to fish for trout. I love bass and walleyes... just don't handle walleyes by their mouth or you will be in a shock of your life... LOL. I have fished for bass and grabbed them in their mouth and then flip them back into the water without seeing any bass going belly up... they are resilient hardy fish.
Trout on the other hand, gotta handle them as if they are glass doll while practicing catch and release. It gets old in a hurry when you see them go belly up... Long live bass and walleyes!
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I understand it matters how you caught the fish as far as if it was a long fight or not. But I was wondering if there mouth was softer or there lower jaw couldnt handle it as well. And I didnt ask wether or why you dont like to fish for trout. This just comfirms my concerns about banter.
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I think that trout are just not designed to be handled the same as bass. If you hook a trout inside (not just on the lip) I do not think that it will survive. Also make sure that you wet your hand before touching the trout, this will help to not remove the protective slime.
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My thinking is this. Yes trout do have teeth and their mouths aren't very large when opened. On the other hand when you grab the jaw of a bass they open right up and have enough space in there to easily remove the lures.Also when you grab them by the lip once you have them they stop flopping around.
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I find bass have a thicker ridge on their jaw that makes them easy to grab in the mouth. When I have tried to lip trout, they slip out of my hand. I think most people don't realize how high the mortality is on released trout. I have a friend with a private pond that quit fishing for the browns in it because they would all die by the next morning. He would use barbless hooks and release them quickly without taking them out of the water. But if he released five trout, the next day there would be five dead trout in the bottom of the pond no matter how gentle he was. I feel that wild browns in a stream are probably a more durable fish and would have much higher survival. I also read an article in Bassmaster magazine once that claimed lipping bass can permanently damage their lower jaw. It was based on large bass, but claimed it would impair their ability to forage. Even with high mortality and damage, I'll still chase fish till I die. I love fishing too much and I guess it's the cost of doing business. Just a few thoughts on the subject.
Good Fishing, Kayote
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I use forcept and lip trout all the time. I also have seen the stats on released trout. Its enough to make you want to keep the first 4 fish and quit. Maybe I'm fooling myself but I figure I kill 1 in 50 I catch. I dont use much bait so I dont catch many that gut my hook. I also use braided line and retrieve fish as fast as possible. My brother inlaw has a pond in layton that he put rainbows in he found fishing for them in summer he will kill every fish he catches as well. He thinks it has to do with water temp and low oxygen levels. I say its because he feeds them dog food. They think there dogs now ] Ive never had good luck releasing dogs.
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I was wondering if you net or grab your trout and then lip them to remove the hook, or do you land them by lipping them?. I lip trout after netting to remove the hook, but find it very difficult to land a fighting trout by the mouth. This is how I actually land bass though. This was what I meant in the post above.
Good Fishing, Kayote
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Once a hook is in a typical trout's mouth, there isn't much room left for fingers lest you risk getting hooked. Even with a largemouth bass where you can stick your entire fist in its mouth, you still want to be careful to not get stuck by your own hook.
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I pull them into shore and they almost always have there mouth open. Unless the stay treble hook will pin the top and the bottom together. When they settle down a second I lip them use the forceps to grab the hook and usually will drop them back in the water w/o really even touching them. Somtimes larger trout I've caught have preety big teeth and I never tried to find out weather their teeth will puncture my thumb. If I'm fly fishing I use a net. With light tippet I'd never land any if I horse them in. Whith longer fights on my fly rod the fish are more tired and need more help recovering.
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Why did you even ask this question when you answered all your questions.
Trout are just like women, fight hard and handled delicately. Best not to touch or net them if your going to release them.
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[size 1]"Trout are just like women, fight hard and handled delicately.". I love that, is it original?[/size]
[size 1]As for releasing fish, I have caught trout in small to medium rivers over and over again. It is technique and common sense. One time in the 80's on the Weber, I caught the same rainbow 3 weeks in a row. (that was when I wasn't senile and could remember fine datails) Where trout really get into trouble is in lake environments where they are heat stressed. When fishing in mid level lakes in August, you might want to keep what you catch, even if caught on artificials. Too many people exhibit poor release technique (drag fish through mud, squeeze it, leave it out of water for an eternity) then wonder why it goes belly up. [/size]
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doggone! my friends think I'm insane because I swear Ive caught the same big brown out of a colvert on stoddard slew 4 times. I say if that aint the same fish the its got to be its twin brother. Its private property (no body fishes it) and small. I think its the same fish!
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I made the mistake of grabbing a nice brown by the lip once, he thrashed a coupla times and my thumb was hamburger. I had to tape it just to hold a pencil to do my homework, some fish just ain't ment to be grabbed by the lip.
Also beware the mudcats there jaws are powerful, had one of them clamp down on my thumb and it took a coupla violent shakes to get the dem thing off thought I was food or something.[pirate]
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Dog food, Great post I'm still laughing.....
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I think as long as you handle a trout gently, then you will at least see it swim away..... I don't know that I've ever seen a stream trout flip over and not swim off when I release them. They always seem to be right hearty and take off swimming strong when I let them go. Also, a reason you might not want to lip trout with your hand is that the browns anyway and some of the bigger rainbows and cutts have some nasty little scalpels in their mouth. Those teeth are sharp where a bass just has a sandpaper feeling pad on the top and bottom of their mouth. I think too that with the big bass, lipping them and holding them horizontally will put the whole weight of the fish square on that bottom lip structure where holding them by the lip vertically puts more pressure on the thumb of the person. I don't know, I could be way off but I've heard before to not hold big bass in a horizontal position and if you do, make sure you are supporting them with yoru other hand. I don't fish for them that often but when I fished for smallies exclusively one summer, I never used to hold them any way but vertically and I held some big ones by the lip..... I figure if the bass pros can do it and have a high release rate and low mortality rate, then it should be an ok technique. I've made the lip mistake on trout and I'm happy to say that won't be happening again.
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So the consesus is if your willing to stick your thumb in a trouts mouth and lip it (provided your gentle) its not a bad way to release?
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You learn something new every day here. I didn't even know that fish had lips!!
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Obviously, the best way is with a barbless hook, foreceps, and never removing it from the water. Failing that, I've always been taught to wet your hand (so you don't scrape off the protective slime with a dry hand), cradle the fish as gently as possible (being careful not to squeeze it) and then remove the hook as quickly as possible. I have also read that with salmonoids such as trout, that holding a large fish vertically, head up or tail up, can result in permanent damage to internal organs that can be torn away by gravity. I'm not 100% certain that is correct, but it makes logical sense given the delicate nature of some of those tissues. I've never heard or read anything similar about bass.
So, to make a long story a little shorter, I try not to stick my thumb in amongst a trout's teeth and I don't hold one up by the jaw (or tail) and dangle it if I'm going to release it. Those are my opinions and reasons.
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Here's my take...
The mouth structure and feeding differences between bass and trout are why you can lip one (bass) and not the other (trout).
Bass feed by impulsion...they quickly expand their mouths & gills, sucking in water & food. Their mouth is designed to open very wide and is very flexible. A trout doesn't use the vacuum (well, very slightly) and their mouth does not have the broad hinge capability or flexibility, due to a more rigid cartilage. To lip a bass, you aren't moving him more than he's designed for. With a trout, he's got a limited motion range, which lipping would strain or severely damage.
Interesting thought on holding lipped bass horizontally. Makes sense, especially for one with weight.
Here's a couple of tricks for calming a hooked trout.
Shade their eyes with a cupped hand (but not touching the fish. You can also calm them by holding them belly-up. I do my best to not touch them, but if I do, I always wet my hands, and try to keep them in the water. If I have to lift them out, I only do so as long as I can hold my breath. If I need my air, the fish needs his.
As for the ponds & previously caught fish going belly up, sounds like either a fish that was hooked deeply, or most likely low dissolved oxygen. An aerator in the pond should help a bit, but temp will be the main factor. Dissolved gasses (read oxygen in this case) are more easily contained in liquids at lower temperatures. Higher temps just don't allow for lots of dO2. Avoid trout fishing in hot temps during the middle of the day unless you plan on keeping your catch.
Now...if I could just catch a bass that I can't hold horizontally. :0
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