Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
For painting spoons and spinners, I was wondering what the difference between powder paint and vinyl jig paint is.
How easy it powder paint to use?
Does the vinyl jig paint easily adhere to the shiny nickel plated spinner blades and spoons? Or is prep required?
Are they both as durable?
How about cost effectiveness?
Finally, for finished products, what does everyone think about painting only a single side of the blade or spoon versus both sides?
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]Like many aspects of fishing and lure making, you will have to make your own decisions on which types of paints to use...for different applications. My position is that there is not just one or the other. There are places for each in which either vinyl or powder is a better choice.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I use vinyl jig paints almost exclusively, both for jig making and for painting spoons and spinners. That is mostly because I do a lot of color combos and glittering that are virtually impossible with powder paints. However, as a tough base coat, over bare lead or metal, the powder paints stick tighter and are more durable. You can then paint over them with the vinyl paints.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Powder paints are not really difficult to use. All you need to do is preheat the metal in a toaster oven...or over a small flame...and then dip in the powder. Shake off the excess, let the powder liquify and then reheat it for a few minutes to "cure" it. You can dip several pieces and then do the curing process in a "batch".[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]If you want a tighter bond of the first coat...paint or powder...on the shiny metal of a spinner or spoon...you can roughen the surface with emery paper. You can also get "hammered" finish blades that tend to grip the coatings better too.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]In the attached pics, I painted only one side on most of the blades, but I did both sides on others. Brass or gold blanks are hard to find. I got a large quantity of the nickle blades cheap, at a damaged freight outlet. I paint only one side of the ones I want a nickle flash on. I gold glitter both sides of the ones I want gold finish on. You can also use prism tape very effectively, as you can see in the fourth attached pic.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Whatever coating or finish you choose, it is wise to finish them with one or two coats of clear epoxy. This helps make the paint less susceptible to plastics and solvents, but also increases the toughness when you bang your lure on rocks, etc. The bad news is that if you are vertical jigging them, near structure, they may not last long enough to need repainting. On the other hand, if the finish gets chewed off by big fish, you can hang up the scarred lures as trophies...or repaint them.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Cost effectiveness? Never an issue with me. I use what is easiest to use, lasts longest and provides the colors I want. If you try to save a few pennies you may not be able to produce that killer lure that whacks the fish when nobody else is getting bit.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
Tube Dude,
Thanks for the explicit information, and especially for the pics of the spoons and spinners--I really like the coarse glitter look on those spoons! Curious about the last pic of the spoons--are those trolling spoons?
I would give anything to find spoon blanks shaped like the Luhr Jensen Krocodile! I caught more large browns on that lure in the winter in slack water on the southfork of the snake than I can count! And to be able to make one and do the same, that would be great! Ideas?
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]There are several online tackle suppliers that sell lure blanks. One of the most complete is [url "http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/fishing-lure-spoons/"]JANN'S NETCRAFT[/url] . You can also find some spoon blanks at [url "http://barlowstackle.com/"]BARLOWS[/url] and Cabelas.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The heavy slabs are "casting spoons". They are poured lead, made in a mold into which you position a wire form before pouring. They come out like the heavy "crippled herring" jigging spoons. They don't have much action but get down to the bottom fast. If you use a single hook "fly" instead of a treble, and learn to jiggle and wiggle them, they are great for deep water spooning. (see pics)[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
TubeDude,
You are definitely DA MAN when it comes to luremaking, holy smokes. I can't wait to get started!
Are the jigging spoons for freshwater lakes? Can you use them from shore? I'm assuming they aren't for bouncing down the river.
[signature]
Posts: 101
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation:
0
One thing that I have noticed on many of TDs jigs and blades- they have eyes. I don't see many like that in the stores. Must be a reason the master uses them.
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
I agree. Looks like a definite pattern to try. Funny thing, I have caught fish some days based on pattern, and other days based on action. And some days it seemed possible to at least elicit one or two smacks just by being persistent and using both--I think TDs lures might be a little more enticing on those slow days, and hellish good on the hot ones.
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]The heavy lead jigging spoons can be used in either fresh or salt water. I always have a few in the smaller sizes whenever I go afloat in water over about 10 feet deep. And, when the fish are hugging the bottom in 30 feet or more, they are great for getting down fast and providing enough weight to help you maintain "touch" when vertical jigging.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]While they are designed for jigging, they can be used for casting or trolling too. As heavy as they are, you can cast them a long ways. And, they will run deeper than most lures that do not have a "diving lip". There are two secrets to making them work on a retrieve or while dragging them behind a boat. 1. put a slight bend in them. The soft lead can be bent between fingers or using pliers (with some padding to avoid damaging the paint...or before painting). 2. Fast retrieve or troll. If you don't zip them through the water they plunge to the bottom. Sometimes a FAST retrieve can wake up inactive or neutral fish. Other times they simply respond better to a faster retrieve with less wiggle.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Lead spoons are definitely not suited for bottom bouncing down the current in a river. Much better to use a lighter "flutter spoon" that will wiggle and jiggle while the current pushes it downstream, above the rocks. Spinners also work well for upstream or cross-current casts.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]THE EYES HAVE IT. A pun on a phrase for voting in meetings, but very appropriate when it comes to lure making.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I have just about every color available in various paints and glitters (see attached pics), and I custom mix them to get my own colors. However, I only paint very few jigs or lures in solid colors...white, black, dark red, hot red, hot pink and hot orange. Even then, I usually glitter most of those, even if I do not include eyes. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]After studying fish and fish "triggers" for many years, I have come to believe that there are several factors that can increase the number of hits...or the aggressiveness of the fish. Eyes are probably the single greatest trigger among all predatory species. They often key in on a wide eyes of panicked or wounded prey. Even a motionless lure, with an eye that looks worried, can provoke a savage whack.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Just for the record, other "triggers" can be the actual colors. While some fishyologists claim that fish are color blind, I have proven to myself that there are days when one color will outproduce other colors by a wide margin. However, I believe that it is usually more a matter of visibility than an actual wavelength preference. Sight feeding fish hit what they can see best...in the prevailing conditions of light, water clarity, water temperature, etc.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]That's why contrasting colors and patterns can make a difference in results. Many of my lures use bright contrasting colors...hot red and chartreuse, orange and chartreuse, red and white, black and white, pink and white, black and chartreuse, etc. During low light conditions, or in murky water, these combos are easier to see than "plain vanilla" monochrome lures. That's also why a lot of my "eyes" are of the contrasting colors. Double whammy.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Depending on the coloration of the predominant "prey species", there ar a couple of other triggers you can build into your lures. One is horizontal lines. Lots of minnows have dark backs over a lighter body...or even dark lateral lines of different colors. You don't have to have an exact match for the color to successfully duplicate the attraction of a horizontal line down your lure.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Another pattern trigger is vertical bars. Yellow perch, sunfish and other prey species have vertical bars on their sides. These supposedly act as camouflage for them to help when hiding out in vegetation. However, when they are out in the open the bars might as well be targets. Lots of fish key in on them. That's why one of the best lure patterns is a perch pattern...even in waters where perch do not occur.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The "fire tiger" finish on lures combines all of the above. It incorporates hot orange, hot green and hot yellow with a dark horizontal back and bright orange horizontal belly...and dark vertical bars. Finish it off with a hot red eye, with a black pupil and you theoretically have the universal lure. I can tell you that it DOES work on many species during much of the year...especially in colder, murkier and/or deeper water. But, it also works during high noon, in the shallows, in the middle of hot summer. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]BUT...there are times when fish are finicky and may be turned off by too much glitz and glitter. That's when to serve up a small jig...all white, all black, all brown, all purple or some other "natural" color. Then, fish it slow and try to imitate a natural prey item. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]When the fish are finicky...in a neutral or negative mode...lighter, smaller and natural is the first place to start. But, if that doesn't work, then you can always bring out the hot stuff and try to create a "reaction bite".[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
What a veritable wealth of information! Thanks TD--I will def. be referring to these posts as I make spoons. Very generous of you to share all that research and knowledge, so thank you.
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]Glad to help where I can. Most of what I think I know has been self-learned...over a whole lotta years. I only wish I had this kind of resource in the past. Ain't modern technology wonderful?[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]By the way, I have several different "writeups" on things like pouring jigs, painting, glittering, adding eyes, etc. Send me a PM with your email address and I will shoot them over to you.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 2,562
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation:
0
I can personally attest to the effectiveness of TD's lures. I've smacked cuts, bows, and perch at Jordanelle, perch at Starvation, wipers, cats, and smallies at Willard, bows and smallies at The Gorge, and browns on the Green with TD's stuff.
I think that the eyes that TD paints on them increase my catch rate over the normal Sportsmans' stuff. Also, an advantage that TD's stuff gives you over the storebought stuff... The hook. The hooks he uses are SHARP, SHARP, SHARP!
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]Glad you like the stuff. Of course a glowing testimonial doesn't hurt your chances of remaining on the field testing crew.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Those Matzuo sickle hooks really ARE sharp. I joke that I lose weight (blood) every time I mess with them. By being so sharp they stick inside the mouth of any fish that smacks them. If you are quick enough on the hookset you hang a high percentage of the biters...and they don't come loose easy either.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 2,562
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation:
0
I was organizing box the other day, and I lost some weight from a now red roadrunner. LOL.
Have anything new that you need tested? You may be able to talk me into it.
[  ]
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]I have been very busy in the creativity department...and at the workbench. Just finished a bunch of new glow goodies, including some "Glo Wermz" and some new perch plungers. Also working on a whole new line of "PBJ"s...not peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...painted body jigs. I have been digging out some of the materials I have had for years and not using and have been integrating them into some new designs. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]You still have never visited my "tackletorium". You gotta get down here sometime and preview the results of a wacko angler who spends too much time confined in his room.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
TubeDude,
Can I get away with using a candle to heat my lure bodies and blades for powder paint, if I am careful to stay in the blue flame and not get carbon on the piece? I don't have an alcohol burner.
Or can I preheat in the oven (though this would take some time).
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]I don't like to use open flames...especially sooty candles.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]For quick heating jobs like powder coating spinner blades I would recommend either a small hot plate or the burner on your stove. Hold the blade with a pair of longnose pliers and keep it close to the heat for a few seconds. Sprinkle a few grains of powder on it to test it. After a few blades you will get a feel for how much is enough.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]If you have a toaster oven you can put a tray of blades inside and set the heat...taking them out one at a time.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 432
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
Thanks--I'll give it a go next round. I used a small candle and heated everything just above the flame which avoided soot. However, I am not fond of powder paint for small lures [mad]
I dipped some small cone-shaped brass bodies, and other brass lure bodies in black, transparent red, and chartreuse. The initial dip was great. But when I place them in the oven for the final cure, the paint became soft again and now all the lure bodies have a flat spot on them. Bummer! Live and learn, but sheesh, that sucks. I will try to sand off the edge of the flat spot with an emery board and see if I can salvage the lure bodies.
On a good note, I dipped some gold inline blades in transparent red, and it looks pretty good. I'll send you picks once I get the lures assembled.
But I can see where the liquid vinyl paint is SO much better. I just couldn't get into town to pick any up. I will now, though.
[signature]
Posts: 35,758
Threads: 262
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
49
[cool][#0000ff]Anytime you are painting lure bodies it is best to hang them or prop them up on a wire so that they are vertical and not touching anything. You can make a simple prop-up wire with a paper clip...by making a small circle with a riser in the middle. Just slide the lure body down over the wire and heat cure it.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]For painting, I have a block of wood with rows of short wire pieces sticking up. You can put a couple of beads on the wire to keep the lure body from settling down and touching the wood...and sticking to it.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 23,576
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2001
Reputation:
0
when I picked my powder up at the traid show some years back, the man was using a miniture blower.
looked something like a hair blower, only it blew really hot air. He said you could pick it up at any hobby shop, I still havent seen one at any hobby shop I have been to.
holding the blades with mini vice grips on the side of the blade, he heated them dipped the plades in to the bowder tapped it against the side of the powder jar and heated them again. Litteraly in seconds.
he was sitting there doing them production line style. he must have did 30 of them in the five minutes I was standing there asking questions. he said he had a thosand to do before the end of the week three day weekend. I was there on a thursday and he had about 600 done already.
Later I realized what he was doing. he paid for the rental of the spot and using their electric to do his shop work...LOL
I emagine that little blower draws quite a bit of juice when ya do a thousand blades....LOL
they werent perfect, but they were as good if not better than any thing I picked up in a bulk shop.
there was another man doing jig heads with a pencil torch in another brand of powder paint.
one thing I found about doing the powder on the blades, if you get the blade to hot it will suck up more powder than you realy need to use.
[signature]
|
