Big or Small FG

[sickday]

I have read on some previous posts about better success with small tubes, 3 to 4 inches, on the gorge. I have had my best success with the 6 to 7 inch tubes. Just wondering what the popular consensus is.
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[Tarponjim]

I use both, but day in and day out, the small ones get more bites and more fish. If I had one jig, and one jig only, to fish with all year long, it would be a 4-inch tube in a dark color (green, brown, purple, or any shade like that) There is no color at the depths I fish, so the jig is either light or dark to the fish.
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[Flycasting]

That's interestin Jim. Would you say that the main forage for the macks are kokes and bows? That has always been my assumption.(and they know what you say about assuming)

But if I am correct, I would think a lighter color like white, pearl, or glow would work better.

Any reason dark seems better for you? []
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[Tarponjim]

Yes, Kokes and Bows are the main forage. YAnd yes, white and light definitely works. But my go-to for a small tube is dark. Maybe because the backs of bows and kokes is dark? Maybe crawdads are in the equation somewhere? (I fish my tubes on/near the bottom) Or, maybe its something else. They'll eat both colors, and fairly evenly really, but when the going gets tough, I go to the dark tube.

I've about given up trying to figure out all the why's on that crazy place. Much of what works best just doesn't make sense, and goes against all "normal" fishing theories and practices. The more I fish it, the more I just shake my head. (and beat it against a wall from time to time!)

Those fish make so-called "selective" spring creek trout seem like pushovers.
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[Flycasting]

Thanks for the reply. Those were my only therios as well. I guess if the fish made sense all the time, it would be too easy. [cool]
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[Wyobraz]

[size 1]"I use both, but day in and day out, the small ones get more bites and more fish."[/size]
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[font "Times New Roman"][black][size 4]I agree with you Jim. But in my experience the small ones catch alot more smaller fish than big fish. If thats not the case for you I must be doing something wrong. [/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][size 4]Wyobraz[/size][/font]
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[CROSSINEYES]

YOU GUYS HAVE YRS MOORE HOURS JIGGING IT THAN I DO. BUT IVE EXP ABOUT THE SAME THING. THE SMALL ONES EAT THE BIG TUBES AS WELL. LAST YR I CAUGHT A 6 POUNDER ON A 7 INCH GLOW. ITS JUST THE PRESSINTATION THAT GETS THE HITS. THIS WINTER THE RAINBOW COLOR KICKED BUT IN 6 INCH.
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[utfishguy31]

Jim

Are you tipping your jig (sucker meat) with anything or using any sent??
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[Tarponjim]

Yes, I agree. You can keep the smaller fish off with a larger jig. The small fish still hit the bigger jigs, you just don't hook very many of those little ones. (those are some of the "swing and a miss" bites you get.) I think the overall number of big fish that hit the smaller jigs is about the same as with larger jigs though. You just have to weed through more smaller fish that do get hooked, and you can't get a bite from a big fish if a small fish has your jig in its mouth. There's also more smaller lake trout down there than ever before. You can't avoid them, and they eat up those 4-inch tubes like candy. For much of the summer, I can fish areas where the ratio of small fish to bigger fish is more in my favor. Seems like about August though, you're going to catch pups no matter where you go. The big fish are right in there with 'em too. Probably eating one every few days.

However, some days a 10-pounder looks pretty good and I'll take it! I also have found that when the bite is a little "off", the bigger fish sometimes lose their guard on a smaller offering. When they're really looking for something to eat, you can put anything down there and get bit. The bigger, the better; WHEN they're happy, hungry, and temporarily lose their mind. How often is that?? Not very. It would be a whole chapter in a book and memory fades, but I've caught good sized lakers on everything imaginable, and some things unimaginable.

A strip of white sock on a lead head. Strips of a black tee-shirt. Hair and feather jigs of all kinds and colors. A squirrel tail tied to a lead head. All those rabbit concoctions I used to use in every color of the rainbow. Strips of dyed leather. Streamer flies tied on lead heads. Soft plastic shrimp, crawdads, shad, jerk baits, spider jigs, etc. All the soft plastics available today are mind boggling, and they all will work! Jigs "scented" (LOL) with motor oil, bug dope, sun screen, saliva (they like mine!), and a certain yellowish substance not suitable to mention on such a sensitive site! I have yet to find a substance that will totally repel them. Haven't found the attractor yet either.

And, I have yet to find a color of jig that I can't get a bite on. Pink, red, orange, any shade of green, any shade of blue, anything. I've always said that I can take any jig, especially a soft-plastic one, that's 3-7 inches long, and drop it down there and get a bite. I haven't found one that's changed my opinion yet.

Now, having said all that, some jigs are definitely more consistent than others. The dark tube still rules. I have some others I wouldn't be without when the tube isn't it. But, I ALWAYS change my presentation either first, or at the same time I change jigs.

In order of importance: 1. Presentation. 2. Size of jig. 3. Shape or design of jig. 4. Color.

The same can be said for dry flies, or flies in general. That's where I first learned its not the color of what you're using most of the time.

(I've subliminally revealed a major "trick" or "secret" in this post. Not something I specifically mentioned, but an overall "theme." I could say it in a sentence, but its best left to figure out!)
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[Tarponjim]

Fishguy: Not if I want a big fish, unless its the only to instill confidence in my anglers. Then I say, put whatever you want on it. Many do seem to get more bites from smaller fish with a little "juice" or a "chunk". It's just not for me unless I'm bored or desperate.
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[Wyobraz]

[size 1]"In order of importance: 1. Presentation. 2. Size of jig. 3. Shape or design of jig. 4. Color."[/size]
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[black][size 3]Amen! I agree with that 100%!!! I see guys all the time out on the pond that are presenting way different than I do. All I do is shake my head and wish them luck. They might catch a fish they might not, but they are usually the ones that are coming over and asking what I was using after they see me holding a fish. Also the only time I might tip a jig is if I am looking for some fast light action usually when I have the family with me, so I can keep them interested. As far as color I really don't know if that makes much of a difference. Sometimes I can't get any takers on a particular color so I will switch and start getting hits. But looking back on those days I am quite sure it was something that I changed in my presentation rather than the color. Just my two cents.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]Wyobraz[/size]
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[Kent]

Jim, that is extremely kind of you to share so many gems of wisdom. I have copied it and added it to my library for Flaming Gorge mack fishing. []
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[fishinfool]

Great read you guys thanks for the great response,someone also told me not to use chub meat,but scent wouldn't hurt,as I said before if you don't learn how to jig from one of these guys that know how it just a shot in the dark,could get lucky though.
thanks again,fnf[cool]
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[CROSSINEYES]

GOING OUT WITH SOME ONE IS WAY CHEAPER THAN LUCK.[]
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[BearLakeFishGuy]

I hate to admit it ([crazy]) but I agree with Jim on the color scheme that works best for lakers. My experience is on Bear Lake as well as some on FG, BUT dark tubes are my go-to for every species in both waters. I prefer blood-red or black, but I also use dark green, purple and blue for both lakers and cutts at BL. I've also tried sizes from 2" to 7" and caught fish on them all, but day-in, day-out the 3.5" or 4" tubes are the most productive. However, I use stinger hooks ALWAYS and they make a noticeable difference. I know this brings up a whole different topic on hooking mortality and I don't want to get into that! However, if you want to "hook" more fish (and I admit my presentation is lacking sometimes) then add a short (4") piece of wire attached the eye of your jig hed and then to a #4 or #6 treble hook, and the short "strikes" that you may have missed will turn in "hookups" that you can land. OK, all strickly the catch and release guys can officially start whining now about the stinger hooks killing more fish. It is my experience that you may accidentally kill a little higher percentage of fish when using a stinger, but I don't feel it is that much more to worry about. I know there will be people who disagree, but that is simply their opinion. Cheers
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[Tarponjim]

I have played with stinger hooks many, many times over the years too. Nearly every year I try some contraption or two. What I keep finding is that even though, yes, we hook a few more fish, we lose even more on the way up due to one hook working against the other as the fish rolls and twists, as lake trout do. I used single hooks for the trailer, never trebles. Even with those, I did notice more damage to the fish when they had the jig fully inside their mouth. A lot of fish were hooked in the roof of the mouth with the standard hook, and the trailer would find its way down into the gills--not pretty. The latest lure I had a stinger hook on is a very, very long jig. When we do hook one with the stinger, its "snagged" underneath the lower jaw. The fish hits the head, the hook-set is late (always[sly]), and the trailer hook gets 'em in the throat as they spit the head of the jig and try to get out of the way. Those stingers are gone from those lures too!

So, more damage + more fish coming off once hooked = no stingers for me. My thought is that when a big fish hits, he's got the whole thing anyway. I've seen this on my camera hundreds of times. Rarely, very rarely, are they "playing with it," "blowing on it," "'kicking it with their tail," "just trying to kill it first," and all that other bunk I hear. They're eating it, jerk on it!

And, I'm not really looking for fish under 10 pounds most days. The ones I'm after most of the year will eat the whole thing, and they eat the front (head) half of the jig, usually from the side. (Again, hundreds of bites seen on my camera) When they hit it head-on, you're probably gonna miss, and a stinger in the rear isn't going to help anyway. I've tried every kind of hook in the head of the lure too, pointed every which way imaginable, and that doesn't help either. If their nose hits the line as they crunch the lure, the line guides the lure out of their mouth when you set the hook. Since most jigs are tied on at or near the head, there's no answer I've found. That's the biggest flaw in vertical jigging with lead heads.

What about tying the jig on with the line near the middle, you say, leaving the head exposed and free of line? Tried that. The presentation sucks bad. The lure doesn't look natural, swims like it's having a seizure, and the fish don't bite it nearly as often. The lure just moves too sideways and squirly instead of straight forward and back, or straight up and down.

All just a fact of life when vertical jigging. It's not a perfect way to present food to a fish by any means.

If anyone has a real, tested solution to the "line getting in the way" problem, I'd be all ears and there is a reward! That's been my nightmare for 20 years. I can't figure out a way to present the jig or get fish to the boat without using line!
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[Wyobraz]

For those of you that are just starting to fish for Macks or have already tried but not very successful take advantage of this post. Capt. Jim has give this post some extremely good info (almost top secret stuff, LOL), and he should be thanked for his contribution.

Wyobraz
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[DonInDenver]

He must be gettin' ready to retire! He's givin' up a lot of stuff these days! LOL
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[CROSSINEYES]

DONT BE GIVING HIM ANY IDEA,S!!![mad]. HIS LIFE LOOKS LIKE WHAT RETIREMENT LOOKS LIKE IN MY DREAMS. IF I HAD HIS JOB ID DO IT TILL THE LAST BREATH.
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[Saberfish]

[black][size 3]Jim,[/size][/black]
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[size 3]You and I agree on many things related to mack fishing. [/size]
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[size 3]You were talking about leaving the head of the jig open, with out line. [/size]
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[size 3]I have attached a photo of my jig box. Note where the hook eyes are on many of them.[/size]
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