Davy's knot

[Dryrod]

Up until yesterday I have always attached my fly using the improved clinch knot. However, it hasn't always been good to me. Last year I hooked into a steelhead [stocked at Irvine Lake] and just as I got him closed to shore he broke off. At least that is what I thought until I inspected the tippets end. Yup - it didn't hold. So yesterday I decided tie on using Davy's knot. BTW for those of us how are visually challenged it is much easier to tie in bright sunlight. Anyhow as I casted out from a boat that I had rented I inadvertently crossed over a sunken patch of vegetation. At first I thought I hooked a good size whatever - yea it was a good size salad. I pulled hard enough to move the boat towards my fly. Any moment I expected something to give. Since I was using a 4X tippet I thought that it would be the knot. Well the knot held and eventually I was able to retrieve my line and fly. So from now on I plan to go with Davy,s knot. What has been your experience?
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[Scruffy_Fly]

My experience from doing relative knot tests is that the Davy Knot is as good or better than the clinch knot. That the clinch knot is stronger than the improved clinch knot.

But I have not really used the Davy Knot out fishing much. When I start to tie it I find myself finishing it out as the orvis knot since I am so used to using it.
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[Bass_Hunter]

I found a small video on how to tie the Davy knot, if someone didnt know like myself...
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[Scruffy_Fly]

I have tried tying it with the finger movements in Zach's video but I find it very ackward. Have the time hooks gets yanked into my thumb. Oh, well.

I have to use the rabbit runs around the tree and back around and down into his hole method.
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[Dryrod]

When ever I come across a knot that I haven't used before I will a bench test. Found that the Davy held on more pounds pulled than the clinch regular, improved or double. I certainly was convinced yesterday. I remember that little ditty about a rabbit running around a tree. Don't have a rabbit but will a squirrel do?

[Dryrod]

Thanks Bass_Hunter for the video. Tying that knot is easy in a controlled environment. However, doing same on the water in bright daylight and with a 7X tippet would leave me cross-eyed. I have to strain to see the tippet no less feel it between my fingers. Ah to be young again. Or perhaps to have things work the same as when I was young. LOL[]
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[Scruffy_Fly]

DR wrote: However, doing same on the water in bright daylight and with a 7X tippet would leave me cross-eyed. I have to strain to see the tippet no less feel it between my fingers. Ah to be young again. Or perhaps to have things work the same as when I was young.Yes, that kind of thing is becoming a bigger issue each year. I have found that making the loops a lot bigger helps some times. Using two fingers on each hand to manipulate the tippet instead of just two fingers I find to help also.
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[Scruffy_Fly]

try watching this video of an orvis knot. It may give you an idea of how to do the Davy Knot easier.

The Davy knot is formed from the first figure 8 formed in doing the orvis knot. If you stop there and tighten the knot after you wet the area while holding the tag end and the fly against each other you will have the Davy Knot.


[url "http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6468992826826237915&q=orvis"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6468992826826237915&q=orvis[/url]
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[birddogwi]

never used one before but I'll have to try it... could come in handy with #16 ice jigs and 1lb test also []
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[flygoddess]

I like my Surgeon's Loop. Lets the fly wiggle.[]
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[Dryrod]

You have got that right. Sometimes my loops are big enough to lasso a bull. lol[]
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[flygoddess]

Ooouch! that was hot coffee through my nose LMAO.
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[birddogwi]

[laugh][laugh]
you two ever try using a Rapala knot in lou of the surgeon's loop?
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[flygoddess]

That has too many steps. I fish in the winter and the surgeon is so dog gone easy for me. The trick is, after you have passed the fly through the loop, put the eye of the hook in the middle of the loop and tighten slowly. Whe ist gets down to touching the eye, I pull on the hook to make sure the loop is clear then pull both ends. I have gotten it down to where I maybe waist at the most an inch of tippet material.
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[Dryrod]

Have never used the surgeons knot to tie on a fly but never too old to try something new. Isn't the Rapala knot more for tying on lures since there is a small loop between the knot and the fly eye? As FGD mentioned there are too many steps involved tying the Rapala. I need to keep things simple. Besides I have given up on fishing and chewing gum at the same time. It's a bi&ch trying to get the gum out of a knot after you moisten the tippet material to tighten the knot.[]
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[birddogwi]

you're exactly right on the step count FG..and no its not a friendly one to tie in the cold if your hands are either..but its one I've tied so much its second nature. What made me post about it was I thought the rap knot had a smaller profile than the Surgeon's loop... [unsure]

I'll have to tie 'em together because I don't recall for certain[crazy]
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[birddogwi]

remember a fly is a type of "lure"... in a simplified sense of the word.[] [angelic]

the rapala knot is basically the same concept... it allows free movement as the surgeon's does

[url "http://www.rapala.com/pdfs/instructions/lures_knot.pdf"]http://www.rapala.com/...tions/lures_knot.pdf[/url]
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[Scruffy_Fly]

The trick is, after you have passed the fly through the loop, put the eye of the hook in the middle of the loop and tighten slowly......[Please explain a little more about tightening the knot. The loop of the surgeons loop is passed twice trough the tag end and standing end, at the same time, twice. From previous discussion I recall that you are indeed passing around them twice. It seems to me that in the slow tightening process to prevent using a lot of excess tippet you would need to be pushing the tag end and part of the standing end backwards through both twists of the knot . Do you do this?At the same time that you are tightening the knot trying to keep the standing end and the tag end peices even such that when finished you do not end up with a small open loop on one of the strands being captured in the middle of the knot. Is that a real problem?]I don't know how to word this to be more clear. I hope you understand what I am asking.
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[Scruffy_Fly]

I have gotten it down to where I maybe waist at the most an inch of tippet material.I have tried it three times on a size 14 foam flying ant with rubber legs and spade hacklefiber wings. It is leaving about 2.5 inches of tag end. I have been unsuccessful at thrying to push the tag end backwards through the untightened knot. So far it is ackward trying to get the foam and legs and wing through the knot. 
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[Dryrod]

[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Hi there FGD - Not quite sure what you meant by[/size][/green][/font] [size 1] [/size]
[size 1]"The trick is, after you have passed the fly through the loop, put the eye of the hook in the middle of the loop and tighten slowly." [/size][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Wouldn't you be threading the tippet through the eye twice to form the loop? Also I gather that you tie the fly on first then attach it to your leader. Wouldn't this be necessary since there aren't two tag ends to work with. Please clarify otherwise I might have to start my martini hour right after lunch. LOL[/size][/green][/font]
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