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[#005028][cool][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Hate to say it but at times tying can be somewhat of a drag. However, I find that creating something new is an enjoyable challenge. True one needs the proven flies in their arsenal.[/size][/font][/#005028]
[font "Times New Roman"][#005028][size 3]But having some that is strictly of you imagination can have its own rewards. One of these days when the old bod is up to doing some swatting I will be able to gives these unnamed flies a good soaking. Hey if any of them are cool enough to lure a nice trout or what ever, then I guess a name will be in the offering. Anyone out there have any luck with a fly/flies of their own creation?[/size][/#005028][/font]
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[black][size 3]That's a tough one to answer.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]All standard flys came from someone's trial and error method. There are some very creative tyers, Cheech (TubeDud) is one that is here on the forum, and he probably has a better answer than anyone.[/size]
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[size 3]Everyone that has ever tied, has at one time or another, developed a tie that they thought would set the world on fire. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.[/size]
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[size 3]Replicating standard flies will hold your attention for so long. Modifications of standard ties sometimes are very productive.[/size]
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[size 3]I would say just keep tying, that in it's self is fun, and keeps your interest up in fishing.[/size]
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I agree with Saber. While I have come up with several creations (that work) I am sure some else has come up with the same thing at one point. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something that hasn't already been done in one way or another.
My most productive flies are mods of other flies. Just changed enough to suit my needs.
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...again realizing I am the newbie here I do have to comment ... and yes... ask another question... [  ]
.. I have numerous tyers on several boards say the same thing.. what I use is a small mod of what was there and therefore is not unique etc.. to me.. especially knowing some of the talent of the tyers here on this board I wonder if you are not giving up to quickly on seeing or checking to see if your mod or new creation is unique enough to be called your own..... meaning.. if you create a fly for your use.. even a mod from another fly.. isnt it still your creation and therefore can or should be named by you?? ... now with that in mind.. and maybe this will clarify for me..
... what constitutes a new fly.. does it have to be something that has never been tied before.. or can it be a mod of an existing pattern that is unique enough that it can be called a different fly.. and on top of that.. who makes that call.. who says whether or not a fly is new and unique or modified to a point that it is unique enough to be given a different name...???
MacFly
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John, your post made my head hurt[cool]. I guess when I tied Mothra or the Stonefly, I used material that was different and my own touches, so I guess it is mine.
My Crayfish, however was a pattern that Jason Haslem came up with, I just changed colors, same with the Marabou nymph.
It is all about the material. I love going to the tying shows to see what new stuff people have found. Like Jason found some COATS & CLARKS thread that is striped. You don't have to us two different colors for this fly anymore, just this thread. Or the young man that was making SCUDS out of old VHS tape.
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I did not mean to make your head hurt sis... sorry...
I was just curious who determines what is and is not unique enough that a fly tied by someone can be named by that person... I guess bottom line is you modify a pattern to fit your needs.. and that is the satisfaction in itself.. but..
I have seen some of your work and you create beautiful flies... [ ]
Again... sorry if I caused you a headache on this one...
MacFly [cool]
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[black][size 3]It's an old and boring story, but it represents a modification of a standard pattern that works.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]Several years ago, I would take my family for a week to Yellowstone park every year to fish the Yellowstone river. In early August, there is a huge caddis fly hatch on the river. I would tie dozens of elk hair caddis for the trip, but it seems that no matter how many I tied, We would always run out. This left me sitting in camp, tying flies while the family enjoyed the area. I would get tired of the standard pattern, so I started tying with short cuts.[/size]
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[size 3]I would use either thread, floss, or dubbing to tie the body, leave off the usual hackle, and apply the elk hair. I found that it didn't make any difference to the fish. Since that time, I still tie some elk hair caddis the same way, only changing the color of the elk hair. And really, I have found that sometimes it will out produce the standard tie. I think that the "legless" body resting on the water is more appealing.[/size]
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I guess the whole point of my question and statement was...
Who determines if or when a fly is a new one that can be named..
and I guess what I see from my sideline position is that a lot of talented tyers do not get the recognition that is deserved because of a successfull modification to a patteren as you described in your story.. I mean look at it this way.. you could have the saberfish yellowstone legless caddis and not know it... [ ]
I have seen some of FG work and I am truely awed by her talent.. her love and passion for tying and the of this sport is quite evident in her work.. I do hope one day to achieve an NTH of her ability and I would be happy.. [ ]
MacFly [cool]
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[cool][#005000] [font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Actually I am not than naive to think that I could create a fly that is not only revolutionary [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]but would be effective too. Probably over the year more than 100 million flies have been tied. [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]What percent would represent a new creation only the Fly God’s would know the [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]answer to that question. Like you all, I think that most supposedly new flies are created making [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]modification to an existing pattern. If you do a Google Image search of a popular fly many of the [/size][/font][/#005000][font "Times New Roman"][size 3][#005000] examples found will resemble each other while some have been modified completely. Back in the dark ages if you didn't have some pork rind in your tackle box then you weren't going to be catching any bass. Now who would have ever thought that a piece of cured pig skin would attract fish. Or better yet that Power Bait would be such a big hit for catching trout. [/#005000][/size][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3][#005000] Hey there Macfly55 you already have the name for your fly so all that is necessary is to come up with an original pattern of your making. You can name your first one Macfly1 and so on.[ ][/#005000][/size][/font]
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I have seen many patterns out there for the "Bunnies", "Clousers", "Streamers", "Zonkers" and other large fly patterns. I have modified many of them to suit my needs and even come up with some of my own creations that allow me to "Match the Hatch" for the body of water or area of the ocean in which I am located.
I have done some of my own mix and match patterns as well as some of my own inventions that have given great results.
Ultimately it is better to use what works and gets the best results.[cool]
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hey bro you semi make my point here when you say you created flies of your own to match the hatch.. if they are unique not only in creation but in area to be fished as well (region such as socal pacific etc) then I think you should get recognition for your work and ingenuity to create a fly that works for a specific area..
... too many time I keep seeing southwest being listed .. or pacific northwest.. etc.. where a fly works in general in a large area what about the flies that are neeeded specific to a smaller area such as north san diego lakes vs oc lakes..
that is where I get frustrated at times trying to figure out what flies to buy.. or .. if I get some time to do it.. tie on my own..
MacFly[cool]
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[black][size 3]Being a fly fisherman, you should have answered your own question.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]You will never see a knowledgeable fly fisherman go afield with one fly. Most have boxes of various patterns. They have learned that not having a "right fly" that will match the hatch is very frustrating. [/size]
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[size 3]There are "hatch charts" available for most waters. These are very useful for fishing "strange" waters. After you fish a water and become familiar with it, you will know what will be hatching and when. [/size]
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[size 3]Don't expect anyone to have all the answers to your questions. Much of this information comes from trial and error. People who want to short cut this process, hire guides. Another good method is to get to know the people in local fly shops, and usually they will help good customers.[/size]
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[size 3]Study waters, the fish, the entomology, the fish's prey, and thinking like a fish. Don't be afraid to experiment. The genesis of every fly was the result of someone's dream at the tying bench.[/size]
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[#008000].... I guess I am beating a dead horse here or I am not getting my point and or question across clearly.....either way as far as I am concerned this is a dead thread.. lets let the horse rest in peace.
MacFly[/#008000]
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One thing I will add before you are done. It is strange that Idaho and Utah are not that far apart, the weather is similar, fish are the same, and the same hatches (maybe at slightly different times), BUT, I find on numerous occassions, what works in Utah, does nothing in Idaho and Visa Versa.
That is where a small adjustment to a particular fly can make a big difference. Mostly size and color.
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MacFly:
[size 1]... what constitutes a new fly.. does it have to be something that has never been tied before.. or can it be a mod of an existing pattern that is unique enough that it can be called a different fly.. and on top of that.. who makes that call.. who says whether or not a fly is new and unique or modified to a point that it is unique enough to be given a different name...??? [/size]
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There are no rules. You will find a fly will have various different names. What happens is someone names a fly then others will claim it is a copy of another fly but it does not matter. What becomes a name for a given fly depends on many factors. The like or dislike of the name. The like or dislike of the person who came up with it. The popularity of the person naming the fly in a given area. The ego of the person naming a creation. The association or dis-association with another fly.
If you want to give your version of a fly your own name go for it. You and your buddies maybe the only ones that ever recognize it by that name but who cares. The ones that you care about it will know what you are talking about.
Many people do not give their alteration a name preferring to give credit to a previous originator of the basic pattern or style.
In the end it does not matter except in the minds of the vain person that thinks he is the originator of the pattern. .... and the name the fly has in a catalog or online for ordering the fly.
It is definite a confusing mess with no way of give order to the disorder.
entropy for ever increases.
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That rule holds true to the Pacific Ocean. Some of my patterns nail the fish at certain beaches. As I go farther north, the water gets cooler justifying the need for deeper darker colors.
The Chartruese colors that I use in one area gradually change to an Olive and later a Forrest Green by the time I get 100 miles north. The light blues change to navy and then deep violet by the same token.
It is the same species that I target too.[cool]
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[size 1]TubeN2 wrote:[/size]
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[size 1]That rule holds true to the Pacific Ocean. Some of my patterns nail the fish at certain beaches. As I go farther north, the water gets cooler justifying the need for deeper darker colors.
The Chartruese colors that I use in one area gradually change to an Olive and later a Forrest Green by the time I get 100 miles north. The light blues change to navy and then deep violet by the same token.
It is the same species that I target too[/size]
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[black][size 3][#0000ff]I have never read that before. Very Interesting![/#0000ff][/size][/black]
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[size 1]TubeN2 wrote:
That rule holds true to the Pacific Ocean. Some of my patterns nail the fish at certain beaches. As I go farther north, the water gets cooler justifying the need for deeper darker colors.
The Chartruese colors that I use in one area gradually change to an Olive and later a Forrest Green by the time I get 100 miles north. The light blues change to navy and then deep violet by the same token.
It is the same species that I target too [/size]
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[#0000ff][size 3]Do the bait fish turn from bright colors to deeper darker colors?[/size][/#0000ff]
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Nice question and very easy to answer.
In the warmer climate, many of the baitfish can appear almost the same color out of the water to the human eye as they would in the colder water.
The same fish, while in the water, will appear differently in warm water than they do in cold water.
Since fish don't perspire, they do control heat and cold through thier scales. During the heat, the scales will be slightly open and looser.
During the cold, the scales will be tighter and more compact to the body. This gives a different rate of reflection.
Us humans interpret the shades that the fish see into the colors of the spectrum.[cool]
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